Raw food/freeflow mince

Vetty

Vetty

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I am thinking about moving Stevie onto raw food...... Are these freeflow minces any good? http://prizechoice.co.uk/products/freeflowmincedmeats/index.php

Also, how much would he have and how often? He's 6 months old and weighs about 12kg at the moment. Would I need to give him anything else? I understand it has ground up bone in it, so is it just veg, eggs and oily fish I would need to supplement?

Can you let me have your opinions please? Thanks x
 
I have used these and my girls and pups loved then and did really well and much better poo's :)
I can't really say on quantities as I feed to each dogs metabolism and condition. Mine are Cockers and two are the same age but one is a gets fat on the smell of food the other a skinny lizzie.
There are books on BARF but I just go with a good complete biscuit such as Vitalin, JWB or similar plus the raw freeflow chicken, beef, lamb or the best Tripe and then give mine big meaty bones and carrots, broccoli left over kids dinner veggies and meat to keep things interesting.
At 6 months your pup has a lot of growing to do so will require 2 or 3 meals a day but you should find he does well on the raw food and enjoys it. The only downside and the reason I top up with a complete food is the cost of the barf diet when feed ing my 3 but with one it shouldn't be too bad :)
 
I feed the freeflow chicken to my shiba, she puts on weight really easily, so she has the chicken and i feed vegetables with it. She loves it and looks good on it :D
 
Beatrice5 said:
I just go with a good complete biscuit such as Vitalin, JWB or similar plus the raw freeflow chicken, beef, lamb or the best Tripe and then give mine big meaty bones and carrots, broccoli left over kids dinner veggies and meat to keep things interesting.
At 6 months your pup has a lot of growing to do so will require 2 or 3 meals a day but you should find he does well on the raw food and enjoys it. The only downside and the reason I top up with a complete food is the cost of the barf diet when feed ing my 3 but with one it shouldn't be too bad :)
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Another question!! Do you feed the biscuit for one meal and the mince for another? Also, what kind of meaty bones do you feed? Are they from a butcher or for human consumption like a lamb chop?

Sorry that was 2 questions ;)
 
Vetty said:
Another question!! Do you feed the biscuit for one meal and the mince for another? Also, what kind of meaty bones do you feed? Are they from a butcher or for human consumption like a lamb chop?

Sorry that was 2 questions ;)
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Don't mix biscuit and raw food, as they digest at different speeds. I mainly feed raw** and often use prizechoice products, mainly the veg/meat mixes, and the liver/ meat mixes as when I make up my own veg or offal and meat mix my dogs won't touch it.

** If feeding raw isn't practical, such as when they go to kennels, then they have Orijen which is a bark food.
 
Vetty said:
Another question!! Do you feed the biscuit for one meal and the mince for another? Also, what kind of meaty bones do you feed? Are they from a butcher or for human consumption like a lamb chop?

Sorry that was 2 questions ;)
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In relation to the other query, have a search on this forum on raw diets as you'll pick up a lot of advice. I feed chicken wings cheap from the supermarket and any other meaty bones which might be on offer. Our local butchers already has a huge list of customers wanting their off-cuts for their dogs and I'm never quick enough. But it is worth asking. There are also suppliers such as Landywoods which supply raw dog food, however they have a minimum order so you need a lot of freezer space.
 
I feed my raw with my biscuits and never had any probs nor heard this before ?
ones come from my butcher for a small donation to hearing dogs and I have big hocks but really whatever nice big bones her has and the dogs love them. My Dad who is a hugely knowledgeable and has had a very well respected Kennel of GSD's has been my mentor and says they can keep the bones until you can no longer stand the smell :) not that they last that long here and anything that could smell has been chewed up asap :)
As for veggies I just sling the odd carrot, broccoli, etc down for them as you would a bonio .
 
Thank you all so much, you are giving me the confidence to try this......

I dropped in at Sainsuburys at picked up their Basics chicken wings (bargain) and some pork ribs. How many of each would I give him for a meal, presumably not mixing them?

Can I just give it for his tea and see what happens?!?!
 
As a guide, they say feed around 2-3% of the dogs body weight. Of course this will need to be tailored over time depending on if your dog is gaining or losing weight and will depend on individual dogs.
 
Sorry been a bit busy and needed to look for this, I put it somewhere safe!

I don't tend to use freeflow mince as I am not sure of the source of the meat, I try and always feed human grade food either from the butcher or supermarket, I buy their really cheap mince. The only "Dog Food" I buy is the Prize Choice frozen tripe chunks as you cannot get green tripe anywhere else.

I put this together for someone who PM'd me recently with a large breed puppy who has reported back saying how well the puppy is doing and that their older dog is also now on Raw.

My sister got a GSD puppy this year and put her straight onto raw and she is fantastic and is now working on the sled with her 2 older husky’s. She was started on 3 meals a day. Bones are really important in the diet and contain a huge range of nutrients. They will not force growth but support it.

If you can get a copy of Ian Bilinghurst’s books Give Your Dog a Bone and Grow Your Pup’s with Bones. Though I don’t agree with his early ideas of feeding Pasta and dairy, mine do not get that as part of their diet though they do have leftovers occasionally. The Puppy one would be the best for you and would give you a good base for steady growth.

Here is a link to my sisters articles:
http://www.brushbow.co.uk/src/speciesmenu.htm

I don’t have puppies myself all of mine have been rescues. My two adult cattle dogs weigh around 20-22 kg and this is roughly their diet:

Basically if you feed a variety and aim to balance over a week or two and not every meal. I feed mine once a day as adults.

Day 1 - Chicken carcasses or wings (5 supermarket wings or 1 carcass for a 22kg mutt probably less butchers wings as they are bigger)
Day 2 – Breast of lamb (in half one gets the soft meaty end and the other the bony end and if I remember who’s had what I rotate that on the next lamb meal)
Day 3 – Offal - Liver/Hearts or Tripe with a couple of teaspoons of blended veg and a raw egg. Will put a handful of pumpkin seeds in the blender now and again as they help detach worms from the digestive tract, (may possibly helps sis has had 0 worm counts for years) Mine hate kidneys!
Day 4 – Chicken (Carcases or wings for mine as they maintain weight, if you have a skinny go for legs or thighs with more muscle meat)
Day 5 – Fishies ( Pilchards in tomato sauce often with some raw fish mixed in – like whitebait ) with an egg and some cold pressed oil
Day 6 – Breast of lamb
Day 7 – Piggie tootie (careful Pigs trotters can make them fart so can be a bit dodgy for those prone to problems and the bones can be quite hard)
Day 8 – Chicken
Day 9 - minced meat or something like stewing steak – whatever is on offer with a bit of veg eggs and oil if it’s mince or chunks.
Day 10 – Exotics – Rabbit, game or sometimes real treat Oxtail or a turkey leg
Day 11 – Chicken
Day 12 – Lamb bones with a bit of meat on them
Day 13 – Offal & veg
Day 14 – Chicken

Some supplement with Kelp, but I keep forgetting to buy it! Apparently alfalfa sprouts are good too, they will eat the horse’s alfalfa but if I put it in their feed they turn their noses up! I use any veg that’s cheap or that is still in the fridge from the last shop, but they love carrots. It’s blended to break down the cellulose in the plant cell walls so the dogs can get something out of it.

I tend to put my lot in the freezer in mixed levels then they get what comes out in no particular order, but for the puppy you might want to mix it up a bit more frequently.

I tend to avoid the big beef bones as they are very hard and have less variety of nutrients than lamb or chicken, beef being from older animals, plus mine will fight so I can't leave them with bones.

The butcher is best bet as you will save a lot of money that way with two big dogs, it’s all of human grade quality and they have to pay to get rid of it all!!! Also you will find me hanging around the reduced counter at supermarkets! With the price of chickens there you should be able to get a few, I take the crown off for me and give the dogs the arms legs and back. The super market birds have softer bones as they are younger so would be good for the puppy and for starting off your older lad.

NB if you feed pork make sure it is always human grade as it can contain worms if it's from a dodgy source!

Hope that helps, PM me or post any questions you have and good for you for taking the plunge .
 
Wow you have very lucky dogs. And probably very happy healthy ones too. I'm afraid I do have to find a comprimise as with young kids I don't want too much raw stuff dragged around my kitchen floor I mop it enough already and my dogs like to take things off for a good chew. Where do you feed yours?

The pig trotters and wind made me laugh. My dad used to feed sheep carcasses to his dogs when he was in Africa and he said the dogs looked great but the neighbours complained about the smell of the gas the dogs produced :) he did have a big kennel with nearly 20 dogs at some stages. He trained / bred dogs for the security, sniffer / rescue dogs etc. He did warn me when I was contemplating BARF about offal and wind :)
 
I tend to feed mine outside either up the yard with the horses or on the patio. Because they fight I tend not to give them things that last too long when I am not around, but the chicken carcasses take about a minute or two and the lamb ribs about 3-4 mins to disappear, softer meals last seconds and wings don't touch the floor as I throw them one at a time whilst trying to keep count!!!

Because I feed human grade and it's fresh frozen the risk of nasties is the same as for my own food prep, probably less so as I feed outside.

Bet your dads dogs were in great condition, probably quite a smell from 20 and in the still heat of Africa! I find it's really only Pork with mine so I choose carefully when I feed it!
 
Well, I gave him 3 chicken wings for his tea last night and after looking very confused to begin with he munched the lot!!! He did look hungry a bit later on though, rummaging around his empty food bowl, so was 3 enough? I think for now I'll give him kibble for breakfast and raw for tea.......

He's at the vets this morning for a general health check so I'll get him weighed and talk to them about the poo/food situation!
 
Quick update after the visit to the vet nurse. He now weighs 14.5kg!! We talked about the tummy situation and she thinks it's probably food and recommended Hills Science Diet, I bought a small bag and will give it a try..... She was adamently against feeding raw at all though - gave me horror stories of dogs with bones stuck in their throats or their tummies, and how dogs digestion has evolved with domestication and now cannot digest raw meat and bones.

I also asked about neutering him and she said they recommend not doing it til the dog is 2 or 3...... I want his off asap - I don't want him to find out what they are for, lol!!! Is that the common way of thinking now, or if I ask a different vet/nurse I'll get a different answer......??

Lots more for me to think about......
 
hmmm. Sorry to hear your vet is not more open-minded about feeding raw - I am guessing the Hills food is available through the vet?!?

Not heard of vets not wanting to neuter until the age of 3! What are her reasons? Mine had theirs off as soon as they had dropped and it was no issue (tiny dogs approx 4.5kg each, so would have been even smaller when they were de-knobbled).
 
Typical reaction I'm afraid and I feel the need to correct her, in my most humble opinion that statement is absolute B)ll)ocks!! I would like to know what training in feeding, anatomy and nutrition she has had and from whom, to say that a carnivore can no longer digest meat!!!!! It even sounds stupid! I suspect that has come straight from the mouth of a dry dog food advocate like Burns himself.

How on earth can a dogs digestive system have changed that much in 60 odd years of pet food, when it evolved over millions? Especially when you cannot even tell a wolf from a dog with DNA and even the shared mitochondrial DNA is 99% ! In fact Dogs have been reclassified as a species by the Smithsonian institute from Canis Familiaris to Canis Lupus Familiaris in light of this extremely close relationship!

This pathetic argument is often being put forward and it just falls on its face, its advocates forget that commercial dried foods for dogs only became popular in the USA in the 1970's, before that dogs were either fed wet tinned with scraps or raw bones hence the saying "as fit as a Butchers Dog". I find it alarming that few vets question this sudden miraculous transformation to a carnivore needing to be fed an almost vegetarian diet, they are after all Veterinary Scientists, yet they accept this without any form of thought or challenge??? Or are my taxes being wasted??

Dr Ian Billinghurst (B.V.Sc) has been much criticised by his own profession for speaking out against commercial pet foods, Australia being behind the USA in introducing convenience pet foods he was alarmed by the sudden decline in health of his own and clients dogs, he decided to switch his dogs back to raw and has never looked back, he really is the one that has opened most peoples eyes.

The close relationship to the wolf can be evidenced by looking at feral dogs the world over, once man has been taken out of the picture and regardless of what mix of breeds they stem from they all start looking more and more spitz like heading back to a wolf outline, and this within a few generations.

You can also look to the Panda to blow this argument straight out of the water. The modern giant panda evolved during the late Pleistocene. Pandas were like their tropical bear species cousins, originally omnivorous but due to competition with other efficient predators, primarily the large cats, they began to specialise exploit plants. In order to do that they had to adapt somewhat over hundreds of thousands of years, yet their digestive tract has not changed drastically in that time period nor has their dentition, their body shape has changed to allow for the bulk the amount they eat. The Major concession is that because their digestion of highly fibrous food is still poor they must spend most of their time awake eating. They are now too big and slow to be omnivorous again, though there are records of pandas eating other plants or occasionally utilizing carrion such as deer that they happen upon.

As to bones getting stuck that I have never seen a case where a dog fed an exclusively raw diet has ever had a problem with RAW bones. Cooked are a totally different matter and should never be fed to a dog, once cooked they become hard and brittle and prone to splintering, nor should raw diet ever be fed with convenience pet foods as this will cause problems. People that I know on raw have a collectively over 100 years experience and this has never happened to any of us, I will also say that none of our dogs are obese, suffer anal gland problems, have halitosis or are diabetic!

The are a growing number of vets that are very pro Raw diet for dogs especially those who are also homoeopaths, in fact the role of raw bones in removing dental tartar has been published in the Veterinary Review magazine, so slowly the message is getting across.

Look back a few years and Dr's were telling women that SMA was far better than their own breast milk!!!!!
 
lizziebell said:
hmmm. Sorry to hear your vet is not more open-minded about feeding raw - I am guessing the Hills food is available through the vet?!?

Not heard of vets not wanting to neuter until the age of 3! What are her reasons? Mine had theirs off as soon as they had dropped and it was no issue (tiny dogs approx 4.5kg each, so would have been even smaller when they were de-knobbled).
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Yep, Hills handily available from the vet - how did you guess??!!

Her reason for neutering later is 'to let the dog' personality develop'. She said as long as he isn't displaying unwanted male behaviours best to leave them on for a bit...... I want him done really, I think I'll ring back and speak to someone else......
 
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