RC SJ qualifier grumble grumble

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flyingfeet

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Ok I think I am going to give up with the RC stuff as its so cr*ppy.

Yesterday went down to 3 counties, where the ground was terrible and although I had studs in the back, I didn't have holes in the front.

Then the organisers build a twisty course with wires everywhere (that you had to cross) for their timing equipment.

We were not allowed to jumping in shirts unless long sleeved (BSJA you can, I'd rather risk grazes than heat exhaustion!)

Then to top it off they built the course up to 1.15m on this cr@ppy ground

I retired my horse in the end as he wasn't very happy.

I just don't think the RC's should be doing anything above 3ft as they have neither the course building ability or ground at most venues.

Sorry had to have a rant, as feeling rather p*ssed off especially after organising everyone.
 
My sister didn't like it there either. She said the ground and jumps were bad. Her team managed to get 4th, and all she got was a small rosette, nothing else at all. Only the first 2 teams quilified so i guess they were the only ones to get anything.

I don't think it fair, for all the teams that entered and you don't get anything for 4th place.
 
oooooooo i was going but didn't, it looks like it was a good one to miss!!

I had friend who there and i did feel for them as it was so HOT!!
 
Yes and couldn't wear my uber lightweight hat as its German kitemarked not BSI.

The riding club rules are really taking the biscuit. One of our team had to take her earring studs out, as no jewellery allowed, it was like pony club!

I had sweat pouring off me, and no refreshments as they pack up for the open jumping... did get two ice lollies from nearest petrol station!
 
Sorry to hear you had such an unpleasant day. I am assuming that you were in the open competition? If you were the maximum height of fences is 1.10, so they shouldn't have been set at 1.15. There is a five cm tolerance to allow for ground / equipment disparities, but in conditions such as you are describing the course builder should have erred on the side of caution.
Ask your club to raise these issues at the next area meeting. The area can then vote on whether or not to seek a different venue, & use a different course builder (should be BSJA or someone who the area approve of if no BSJA course builder available) in the future.
If your club decline to raise the matter on your behalf you may want to consider contacting your area chair / rep with your concerns, & ask them to raise your views for discussion at the next meeting.
 
Rosettes for RC official competitions are two tier with three tails - not really what most would describe as tiny!!! Area competitions do not on the whole make much in the way of a profit, so if prizes are to go further down the line I suspect entry fees would have to be raised. Again the route to take to epress your disatisfaction is via your area committee. Who knows there may be some money in the area kitty to support your suggestion.
 
BRC is a high standard and the problem is if they build too small at qualifiers then when people get to champs they have no chance because it is always a seriously meaty course.
We are always the only team in the open at our qualifiers now ,so only do one round and qualify.At champs you can usually count the double clears on one hand.
It is the same with eventing , we love our riding club but you need a really good team of BE horses to go to champs and people would rather do BE instead. Shame I think it is going to need a bit of a rethink in the future for more to participate
 
Please don't tar all RC with the same brush. We <u>always</u> use a BSJA registered course builder and judges (in fact I thought you had to for qualifiers - you have to use listed judges for the dressage
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BRC is a high standard and the problem is if they build too small at qualifiers then when people get to champs they have no chance because it is always a seriously meaty course

[/ QUOTE ] Completely agree with this - the Open finals at Lincoln are a decent professional track and so people need to be capable of jumping this at the qualifiers before they get there.

As far as the shirt issue goes well I had to jump in jacket at Hickstead yesterday in the sweltering heat, so I warmed up in my short sleeved shirt and just stuck my jacket on before I went in (which I normally do at every show)

Sorry to hear you had such a bad time though
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I don't mind jumping a bigger track, but only if the ground is good and hasn't got electical wires going across the ring on the ground!

The jacket thing is a total pain if you compete without a helper!
 
Whilst it is preferable that BSJA course builders are used at RC area comps it is permissable to use someone who isn't on the BSJA list, but who in the opinion of the area committee / official steward has the necessary experience. The course is the responsibility of the judge regardless of whether or not a BSJA course builder is used, &amp; this is why RC rules do stipulate that at least one of the judges must be on the BSJA list to ensure that they have the necessary training to assess the course for safety, correct distances etc.

I've done a bit of digging though &amp; have discovered the following.
The course builder at the competition is an approved BSJA course builder. There were apparently some very bad areas of ground which he managed to avoid. I suggest that may be why you found the course twisty.
The organisers received no complaints or expressions of concern on the day, &amp; are under the imptression that all was well on the day.

May I respectfully suggest that in future you make your concerns known to organisers on the day rather than come on here 24hrs later proclaiming how cr**py everything was. Please apply this philosophy to all events not just RC ones. Had you have done this perhaps your concerns about the course could have been explained to you in detail &amp; you may have felt better about things.
 
I would respectively point out that users are allowed to vent their frustrations freely on this forum without censorship!
I can proclaim things brilliant or cr*ppy as I see fit.

There is no point complaining to the organisers or BRC as nothing will come of it or they will suggest your RC runs the event.

The fact that many people retired would have given the inkling that something was not quite right, in addition not one single intermediate team went double clear. So either we are all rubbish or something was not right!

My horse now has giant welts from the horseflies there too. So yes I felt it was cr*p.
 
Of course users can vent their frustrations on here I never said they couldn't. You are free to proclaim whatever you like, but by the same token people also have a right of reply. I'm merely pointing out that it would be more constructive for you to let organisers of ANY event of your disatisfaction at the time. At least that way they have a chance to rectify any actual problems that they may not be aware of.
As I wasn't there I can't comment on why there were no double clears in the intermediate competition. All I can do is repeat that the required BSJA officials were in place, &amp; that no complaints were received on the day. No it is not enough to expect the organisers to interpret 'many' people retiring as an indication of something being wrong. Anyone who considered the course &amp; ground were totally unsuitable should have made their concerns known, &amp; if they were still not satisfied then withdrawn from the competition.

Anyway if your RC isn't willing to take on the responsibility of running the area qualifier there's nothing to stop you as an individual offering your assistance.

I'm sure it must just be the way you've worded your post, but I do assume you are not also blaming the organisers for the horsefly bites your horse has suffered?
 
Oh come off it Zebedee, they knew it was not ideal conditions, but there wasn't a huge amount they could have done (other than chosen a different location earlier). Wasn't quite as bad as two years ago when there were giant cracks in the ground.

However with the exception of last year where it was lovely, the RC area qualifiers don't have the ground to do the open show jumping and anyone with a horse than jumps 1.10+ isn't going to risk them on rubbish ground. This is possibly why in many areas there is only one team.

Our RC already runs an area qualifier and have done so for past 6 years, as no one else will volunteer, so no we don't want to take on another one thank you!
 
Well as I've already said I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy your day.

At a recent very high profile competition (British Open?) several top riders felt that the surface was bad &amp; withdrew their horses, so there was that additional option open to you if you were that unhappy with the going &amp; the course.

I still say that your feedback needs to be brought up in the area, &amp; as Weezy has mentioned an alternative venue with better ground perhaps that's one suggestion that could be put forward.

Or of course should you could just exercise your perogative not to do cra**y riding club stuff anymore.
 
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I think it is going to need a bit of a rethink in the future for more to participate

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd seriously love to hear any suggestions you might have to increase participation at area qualifying level.

PM me if you prefer.

(I really am interested
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Question for you Zebedee

What does happen to all that lovely money from the prelim entries?

SJ
Team = £23 to Stonleigh
Team = £44 to Club

Total per team member = £16.75

Individual = £6.50 to stonleigh
Individual = £ 11.00 to Club

Total per individual = £ 17.50

No prizes, no prize money, not at a decent equestrian centre and more expensive than a BSJA competition - could this possibly be why more don't compete?

The area show at Worcester Lodge this weekend was only £14 per class, and I could win back more and the ground was better.....
 
The money from the prelim entries goes towards the funding of the championships.
The championships themselves in spite of what are considered extortionate entry fees just about overall break even, with a couple making a loss which is covered by the relatively small profit that some of the others make.
If you want greater detail your area rep should be able to supply you with it.
 
Oops sorry just realised that I haven't answer your question in full. The prelim entry money to Stoneleigh is allocated as above.
The fee to the organiser is all theirs. It's up to the area organiser be it club, area committee, or venue to set entry fees as they see fit. Out of the income from entry fees they will have had to hire the venue, pay judges/ officials expenses &amp; provide refreshments for them &amp; other helpers. There's also medical cover. The venue hire may have included PA, Toilets, &amp; showjumps. If not they will have to have been hired, or if the club owns their own transported to the venue. Rosettes &amp; scoring materials are provided by BRC, so o added expense for the organisers are incurred there.

From your post above though it would seem that £11 for two rounds of SJ is quite competitive compared with £14 per class?
 
im sorry you did not have a very good show. although if the ground was awful you should have retired, i know i wouldnt want to even contemplate jumping my horse on awful ground and if you made the decision to jump and chose not to air your concerns to those who need to know then no one will ever know that ppl were not impressed.
 
I did retire!!

Anyway my point being is that for those clubs that do not fund the prelim entries it makes it an expensive show. The organisers cannot put up their fees to pay for prizes or nicer venues due to the prelim entries.

Given that we have an entire RC team at Stoneleigh, could they not make prelim entries cheaper and drum up more sponsorship or funding (lottery?) for the championships

Seems like the many are being penalised for the few that go to the champs (and even so I think the entry fees for the champs were more than a BE class for the horse trials!!)
 
the way i read it is that you had jumped at least a couple before you retired.. if the ground was that bad i wouldnt have bothered tacking up!!!

to be honest from your OP it sounds as though your gripe is with the course, the fences, the ground... stick to aff then.. at the end of the day rc suits alot of ppl xx
 
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Anyway my point being is that for those clubs that do not fund the prelim entries it makes it an expensive show.

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I know you are horrendously busy and I do appreciate that (any maybe your club meetings are closed) but have you gone along to a RC meetings or are you on a committee? I know we make our own decisions about what the club pays for and this year I've done three team events and not paid to be on any of the teams or as an individual. I paid extra to do a pairs class in the Hunter trial and I paid to do a second dressage test myself but that was my choice. I could still have been on the team and not had to pay then entry myself. The club holds open meetings so that ALL the members can come and take part in the decision making. We propose things and compromise to have everyone agreeing.



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could they not make prelim entries cheaper and drum up more sponsorship or funding (lottery?) for the championships

Seems like the many are being penalised for the few that go to the champs (and even so I think the entry fees for the champs were more than a BE class for the horse trials!!)

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Funding is a great idea- again this would be something for you (or anyone) to suggest to your committee
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We've had three small grants of £1000 each to subsidise the winter training in different disciplines. We held a dressage clinic too that was subsidised because we had attracted funding somewhere. Our committee did all the work to secure it.

I also totally agree about venues still being used when no-one else will hold events. Our dressage a couple of years ago had a great big dip/hole in the centre line (which they had mown) and lots of people fell in it
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We did pass on our concerns and it was aired at the next Area meeting. Also there was something used on a field once that we were jumping in and about 80% of the horses came down with really bad itching and that venue was scrapped due to the complaints and evidence
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here we go i'll have my pennyworth.

I do feel that most Rc members now do affilated events, so therefore the the bar has been raised in standard
and members now do have higher aspirations, which aren't available at 'an Area events' or would be at another extra cost.

I do think that i have to say all RC events i competed at this season have been well oraganised and i've enjoyed. BUT i do feel that the BRC do need to be more the ball about moving forward with BE, BD and BJSA.

But speaking from someone who does put back in big time it's no easy task and sometimes everything can go against you and normally it's our lovely bristish weather.

But thing to remember about RC, if you don't like stuff join the local committee and change within. But that one of the good things surely. New blood is always welcomed and dare i say needed!!!-ooophs

run and hide
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Yes horrendously busy, but I'm still one of those on the committee and actually does stuff!! To be fair we fund the prelim entries, but not the main entries for our members, but smaller clubs cannot afford to do this. When we are planning entry fees we have to bear in mind the prelim fees to make it affordable for all clubs.

Where did you get your grant funding from? We always have to run events to generate cash for the club, but we are currently feeling poor after buying new show jumps.
 
There is already extremely generous sponsorship for each of the championships. The 'entire RC team' as you call them already do a lot of PR work with our sponsors to keep them happy &amp; feel that they get good value for their money. Lottery funding wouldn't be available, you'd be more likely to get a grant at club or area level for training facilities or equipment. perhaps those members of clubs who don't fund the prelim entries could run some evening SJ comps to raise funds for them?
I don't know exactly how things run in your area as they are all slightly different, but some areas run 'non qualifying' sections, where entrants do everything but pay the prelim fee. The only difference is that they do not qualify even if they win. Perhaps if your area don't do this already it's another thing for you to put forward for discussion.
I don't quite understand your assertation that the many are being penalised by the few who actually qualify. I've already explained that when you add the income for all the championships together they just about break even. If BRC were to start subsidising entry fees that would penalise those members who never compete at all.
I am quite happy to answer as many questions as you have via this board, but I STILL think you should air some of the grievances through the official channels in place within your area, even though you've already said that you feel there is no point.
Neither being a member of a riding club or representing it in official competitions are compulsory. I am sorry that you feel so disatisfied with the movement but appart from the office staff the whole shebang is run by volunteers who get little or no thanks for their efforts, but who will always try to deal with complaints in a pleasant manner &amp; with an open mind. As on this post alone you've complained about the course &amp; going at an area qualifier, the dress rules, &amp; the prelim entry fee I'm concerned that you get little or no pleasure from being a member at all.
 
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BUT i do feel that the BRC do need to be more the ball about moving forward with BE, BD and BJSA.



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Could you just expand on that a bit for me please? ( I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on this - PM if you prefer)

Rules are changed in line with the disciplines (the biggest exception being that you're allowed three refusals in RC SJ not just two...no-ones ever complained about that mind!!).
The heights pretty much stay in line with BE &amp; BSJA, &amp; the points allowed limits for dressage are in line with BD.
Whilst I agree that many RC member do affilaited competitions across the disciplines now, there are even more who don't. Trying to keep the novice sections of each competition for those who are genuinely grass roots competitors, &amp; for whom to qualify for any of the national championships would be so exciting is so hard!! For instance a few years ago no rider in the novice horse trials could be a member of BE. Then as clubs found it harder &amp; harder to form teams two members of each team could be members, &amp; as of last year there was no restriction at all on how many riders in the novice horse trials teams are members of BE.
 
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