re-establishing some ground rules

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Ridererror

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A horse I ride has moved yard from a small paddock type field close to the yard - to a large field with a herd turnout and a bit of atrek to the yard (field is still on the yard ie no roads etc to go on but quite far away from stable, tie up point, school etc.)

He has only been there a few days so I appreciate it is all still very new and exciting for him BUT he is very strong and "pully" coming in and out of the field. As I say I appreciate it is still new and exciting but I want to nip this in the bud before it becomes a habit (and I don't want to feel worried the whole walk up to the yard everytime.)

So last night some of the other owners were calling their horses at the same time so they were all cantering past us to the gate while I was trying to lead him which didn't help. Everytime he pulled I would make him stand or back up and only move on again until he settled. meant it took us ages to get up to the yard lol but I don't mind that if it is going to help. Is this the best approach? Or can anyone offer any help/tips? I was watching a training video this Morning which suggested a longer line but I think this would more for a long term solution? Given that this seems to be excitement/newness I don't want to go to unneccesary expense. I should also add as he has been enjoying himself somuch with his new friends he wasn't keen on being caught so I have just been bringing him in for "nice" things like for his tea and a good grrom/scract/ let him look around the yard and school but maybe that isn't going to help the excitement/pulling?? He is 16.2 and strong and I am 5ft 3 and not ha
 
TBH I think manners are manners regardless of the situation the horse finds it in and behaving in "exciting" situations is something worth investing in. I've used a Richard Maxwell controller halter to good effect to retrain horses that can be strong and pully. It doesn't mean that they didn't react to "exciting" events but it did mean that instead of pulling me off my feet, they piaffed and passaged beside me moving at my speed and stopping when I stop. I bought mine 20 years ago and it's still going strong. It's horrible being pulled around and also very unsafe so worth spending a bit of time and money on in my book. Good luck I hope you get it sorted.
 
I don't like longer leads. Imo they put the handler into a more dangerous situation, handler needs to be at the horse's shoulder and very aware of horse's body language. I use a simple rope halter to lead, even difficult horses in, with a schooling whip to act as a barrier to jumping forwards but if you think you need more control, you might prefer to lead in a bridle/bit. If the horse stood well when you asked him to do so, your strategy sounds fine
 
There are several things you can try. Wearing a hat, good grippy boots, gloves and a padded jacket (if it's not too hot ) will subtly change your mindset, making you feel less vulnerable and more in charge.
Walk up to your horse and put the headcollar on, with the lead rope unclipped but loosely threaded through the collar and ask him to walk with you to the gate. If things get exciting, you can let the rope slide through so he can run with the others. In winter, this is usually a race for the gate, which is fine, because you can nab him there. In summer, if he's a food lover, and he doesn't go to the gate, just leave him unfed for a day or two. This is often quite a shock, particularly if time on the yard is always a positive experience.
If the yard is gated, once on the track, it's easier to manage if things get sticky. Walk quietly and seemingly oblivious to your horses bad manners. Look ahead and don't react. Keep your grip on the rope and let the horse decide whether he pulls himself or walks comfortably. He'll work out that rushing and bouncing is hard work and doesn't change anything. The more excited he is, the calmer the handler needs to be.
I had a master class in watching a very small, slightly built, elderly farmer leading a large 670kg horse that no one else could manage. In seeming to do nothing, he actually did everything.
 
If I use a long line it’s not with the intention of giving them a load of length. IMO that’s dangerous, if they kick their heels up you stand more chance of getting hurt. Stay close to their shoulder, that way if they do get the better of you then you are more likely to be eating dirt rather than picking up your smashed teeth or nursing broken ribs.

That said a bit of extra length on the rope never hurts.

I tend to default to a stallion chain (over the nose rather than under the chin) for anything generally bolshy/naughty. The release is quick and generally you don’t need to use it once they know it’s on. You can buy them built in (eskadron etc) but I just have a loose chain in my tack box that comes out when needed.

For anything a little more sensitive that needs a mild reminder then rope halters are useful
 
I've got one of those thin-stringed knotty halters which is brilliant for reminding a sassy horse of their manners.

Timing is of the essence, and as soon as the horse comes into your "space" you need to use your body language & posture to "grow tall" and flick the end of the rope so that it is a bit like a snake in front of the horse if that makes sense (I use a long rope on the advice of my trainer). If the horse is really persistent I would take up the slack/end of the rope and swing it in a circular motion whilst at the same time walking backwards towards the horse so they have to retreat. When the horse has done what you wanted, then IMMEDIATELY desist and praise by rubbing head/mane area etc. This is then "rewarding" the good behaviour, i.e. the behaviour that you wanted.

Remember, you are not trying to be "nice", you are stating expectations regarding the space that you expect your horse to keep around you.

Have a look at Michael Peace's website and/or any articles or books he's got out as he has a very practical approach to stuff like this.

If you're really struggling, it might help you to have an expert help you as timing is vitally important in groundwork like this.

When the horse is away from the fraught situation, you could do stuff on the ground like walking around, being responsive to your hand on the side (where you leg would go) to go away from you, walking over poles and through obstacles with you, picking up feet, standing up to the mounting block etc etc. I've just had to do all this with both my youngster as a revision exercise, and also with my "project" mare who was as bolshy as a pig when I got her.
 
dogatemysalad said:
There are several things you can try. Wearing a hat, good grippy boots, gloves and a padded jacket (if it's not too hot ) will subtly change your mindset, making you feel less vulnerable and more in charge.
Walk up to your horse and put the headcollar on, with the lead rope unclipped but loosely threaded through the collar and ask him to walk with you to the gate. If things get exciting, you can let the rope slide through so he can run with the others. In winter, this is usually a race for the gate, which is fine, because you can nab him there. In summer, if he's a food lover, and he doesn't go to the gate, just leave him unfed for a day or two. This is often quite a shock, particularly if time on the yard is always a positive experience.
If the yard is gated, once on the track, it's easier to manage if things get sticky. Walk quietly and seemingly oblivious to your horses bad manners. Look ahead and don't react. Keep your grip on the rope and let the horse decide whether he pulls himself or walks comfortably. He'll work out that rushing and bouncing is hard work and doesn't change anything. The more excited he is, the calmer the handler needs to be.
I had a master class in watching a very small, slightly built, elderly farmer leading a large 670kg horse that no one else could manage. In seeming to do nothing, he actually did everything.
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Thank you for this excellent reply! Funnily enough I never use wear a hat for bringing in but yesterday I did. And it wasn't a conscious "I must put it on in case he dicks around" For some reason I just did. Funny you should mention slipping the rope through because yesterday I was htinking if he tanks I need to get that rope unclipped so that is actually great advise at least until the gate thank you. Well yes this is what is annoying. Every other horse runs to the gate there but not this boy...oh no...he has to be the ABSOLUTE FURTHEST PART OF THE FIELD AND WATCH ME WALK AND SHOUT AND WHISTLE ALL THE WAY THERE THEN LEAD HIM ALL THE WAY BACK!!!!! If he came to the gate that would be much easier!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I don't like longer leads. Imo they put the handler into a more dangerous situation, handler needs to be at the horse's shoulder and very aware of horse's body language. I use a simple rope halter to lead, even difficult horses in, with a schooling whip to act as a barrier to jumping forwards but if you think you need more control, you might prefer to lead in a bridle/bit. If the horse stood well when you asked him to do so, your strategy sounds fine
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I have never used a rope halter but have read loads about them. he isn't my horse so I do need to discuss things with his owner but she is extrememly flexible and accommodating to anything that helps. She is fantastic actually!
 
Thank you for the replies. All very helpful. My instructor is coming to give us a lesson next week so I might book her for some groundwork too!
 
Ridererror said:
Thank you for the replies. All very helpful. My instructor is coming to give us a lesson next week so I might book her for some groundwork too!
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Yes! Always valuable to have an expert show you as timing is soohh vitally important, also the way you place yourself assertively.

I meant to say in earlier post, if you can ever get to a Horse Agility Workshop at which Vanessa Bee is demonstrating or judging, then I'd recommend you move heaven and earth to get there; I learnt soooh much by just watching Vanessa a few times at a clinic and then later met her when I entered my old boy for a Horse Agility competition and she was judging. Her body language, posture, and breathing even, is amazing. Don't know if she's got anything on You-Tube?? Might be worth a look.

Also (meant to say earlier) DO make sure you have PPE: I'd suggest the "BHS training yard minimum" i.e. hat, gloves, body-protector and suitable footwear (ideally steel-toe-capped if you can). Plus have your phone with you just in case......
 
I totally agree with everything that's been said if you want to do it properly, but if you want the cheat / easy way and he's food orientated, I'd get a bag of herbal treats and put a few in your pocket. Give horse one when you catch him and he'll probably spend the whole way back to the gate so interested in your pocket that he won't care what else is going on. Mine get one every time they're caught and 99% of the time they come cantering to the gate. On the rare occasion I have to go looking I put a treat in each hand and they follow me up to the gate loose as they know they'll get them when they get there!
 
I second using a halter (I use a dually) and some training in it, as others have said speed is of the essence. I’ve had a couple of in hand sessions with a trainer and I learned a lot from it.
 
annagain said:
I totally agree with everything that's been said if you want to do it properly, but if you want the cheat / easy way and he's food orientated, I'd get a bag of herbal treats and put a few in your pocket. Give horse one when you catch him and he'll probably spend the whole way back to the gate so interested in your pocket that he won't care what else is going on. Mine get one every time they're caught and 99% of the time they come cantering to the gate. On the rare occasion I have to go looking I put a treat in each hand and they follow me up to the gate loose as they know they'll get them when they get there!
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I agree, food helps 100%
 
Lois Lame said:
I don't suppose it was caught on youtube? It would be great to watch.
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Unfortunately not. He wasn't even a horseman, he was more used to dealing with cattle. I did see a YouTube video of some finely built men leading some very lively racing youngstock on their daily walk though. Can't find it now, but they used the same approach and it imprinted itself on my memory.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I don't like longer leads. Imo they put the handler into a more dangerous situation, handler needs to be at the horse's shoulder and very aware of horse's body language.
Click to expand...

I use a long rope, but not with the intention of giving the horse all of the rope, it simply gives me the option.

Having had to sort out quickly some very big and rambunctious horses, I found that if they ever go straight up and you are attached to a short rope, you get lifted and sucked underneath the front feet. Either that or let go, which is firstly not always safe to do and secondly sets up a whole new ballgame in horse achievement.

With a long rope you can choose to hold is as a short rope length, but if the horse stands up you also have the option to stay firmly planted on the floor without having to let go.

A long rope also means you can position yourself to circle the horse round if you are taken by surprise, and stay at a safer distance.

I find a standard lunge rein a bit too long and cumbersome and with the added possibility of getting loops caught, whereas the 12ft rope is just right, not too long and not too short.
 
dogatemysalad said:
I had a master class in watching a very small, slightly built, elderly farmer leading a large 670kg horse that no one else could manage. In seeming to do nothing, he actually did everything.
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I've seen Cheryl Clark (now Grover) handling Suffolks, including a breeding stallion, and it was exactly as you described - businesslike, minimal fuss, although you also got the feeling you wouldn't want to mess with her! Lovely lady, a mine of horsey wisdom, with a wicked sense of humour.
 
dogatemysalad said:
Unfortunately not. He wasn't even a horseman, he was more used to dealing with cattle. I did see a YouTube video of some finely built men leading some very lively racing youngstock on their daily walk though. Can't find it now, but they used the same approach and it imprinted itself on my memory.
Click to expand...
Seeing people working like that with horses so effectively and quietly despite the huge difference in size was a revelation and inspiration to me early on. Simply knowing that you don't need to be big, strong and rough to control a big, strong, boisterous can be a tremendous confidence boost.
 
I posted a while back about my boy being wild coming out the field , he was really bad and disrespectful... which was not like him. It was a nightmare but i since found out that someone had deliberately buzzed with the electric fence thankfully he calmed down eventually but took ages of stopping and starting again and reminding him
 
Barton Bounty said:
I posted a while back about my boy being wild coming out the field , he was really bad and disrespectful... which was not like him. It was a nightmare but i since found out that someone had deliberately buzzed with the electric fence thankfully he calmed down eventually but took ages of stopping and starting again and reminding him
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You mean someone deliberately caused your horse to touch an electric fence and get a shock?? That was hugely irresponsible given horses have long memories for painful events (an essential survival mechanism), as you were to find out subsequently. That is the danger in using extreme punishers, esp. ones that cause pain. Once the (possibly wrong) association is made in the horse's mind, it can be difficult or sometimes impossible to completely erase.
 
Yeah she did, never found this out till later, long story short she put my horse out without me knowing and brought him later that day, my boy doesnt have electric fencing he respects even a tiny piece of rope! 😡 so she got him from the field and got hers in too and as she turned him zapped him with her fence! But if she had any common sense the stupid cow would have got her horse first and then mine which doesnt require going down a lane and it’s electrified!
He reared obviously and she let go of the rope and he cow kicked her 😂 and she actually played it out and got crutches etc over it 😂😂 numpty!

So after putting my horse through that i couldnt get him in or out his field or even down the road he was shaking and in a complete sweat even after half an hour! It was a shame... it took me months to get him calm again and she left the yard before i ripped her face off...

Two weeks later i get a text from her asking if im insured 😂😂 i said yes thank you i am! But you havent a leg to stand on 😂😂 i didnt ask you to touch my horse at all!!!

Still raging over it and now my boys even sookier to me , doesnt trust anyone else now 😡
 
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