RE: Genuine Rugging Question

Moomin1 said:
It's a little like saying on a 'how much to feed thread' that someone who disagrees with someone feeding an excessive amount of concentrates for limited work is disagreeing with feeding horses on an individual basis.
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Ah but "excessive" is in the eye of the beholder, or indeed, very much relative to the individual needs of the horse. PS's CS needs more rugs than my unclipped 3y/old highland, and thus should be rugged accordingly, but who are you to declare PS's rugging level excessive for her horse's individual needs? Unless you've been up there with a thermometer and a vet to declare him suffering from heat stroke, I declare that you are practising double standards by claiming to acknowledge the needs of the individual, but not accept a competent horseperson's determination of that.
 
JFTD said:
Ah but "excessive" is in the eye of the beholder, or indeed, very much relative to the individual needs of the horse. PS's CS needs more rugs than my unclipped 3y/old highland, and thus should be rugged accordingly, but who are you to declare PS's rugging level excessive for her horse's individual needs? Unless you've been up there with a thermometer and a vet to declare him suffering from heat stroke, I declare that you are practising double standards by claiming to acknowledge the needs of the individual, but not accept a competent horseperson's determination of that.
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Well I suppose we could all say the same about any opinion or advice given to any poster on here - including those that are blatently doing something which could detriment the horse's welfare. Couldn't we?

Opinions are not limited to the obvious wrong's and right's of situations.

It's would be interesting to know how many of the people on this thread feel that the quote I posted of the horse with 7 rugs on is excessive.
 
Mine in January having an air! Don't think they look too poor or have staring coats for only having mw rugs on!

winter2012028.jpg
 
Moomin1 said:
Well I suppose we could all say the same about any opinion or advice given to any poster on here - including those that are blatently doing something which could detriment the horse's welfare. Couldn't we?

Opinions are not limited to the obvious wrong's and right's of situations.

It's would be interesting to know how many of the people on this thread feel that the quote I posted of the horse with 7 rugs on is excessive.
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Actually I disagree - see, genuine over-rugging to a level of welfare concern would be detrimental to the condition and coat, and would have obvious physical effects - none of which CS/Fig/Bruce etc show. Therefore we can come to the conclusion that the level of rugging you are so vehemently derisive about is not a welfare concern - at worst the horses are mildly uncomfortable (akin, perhaps to a cold, unrugged horse on an unseasonably chilly night). Do you really feel that the possibility (and I stress, possibility, there) of some well conditioned, well cared for animals being mildly uncomfortable to a level not detrimental to their condition, gives you the right to repeatedly ridicule, berate and generally assume a moral highground over another poster? It's not your opinion that riles me- it's your conduct towards other posters.

I shouldn't care to comment on the 7 rugs without knowing the circumstances or horse involved.
 
JFTD said:
Actually I disagree - see, genuine over-rugging to a level of welfare concern would be detrimental to the condition and coat, and would have obvious physical effects - none of which CS/Fig/Bruce etc show. Therefore we can come to the conclusion that the level of rugging you are so vehemently derisive about is not a welfare concern - at worst the horses are mildly uncomfortable (akin, perhaps to a cold, unrugged horse on an unseasonably chilly night). Do you really feel that the possibility (and I stress, possibility, there) of some well conditioned, well cared for animals being mildly uncomfortable to a level not detrimental to their condition, gives you the right to repeatedly ridicule, berate and generally assume a moral highground over another poster? It's not your opinion that riles me- it's your conduct towards other posters.

I shouldn't care to comment on the 7 rugs without knowing the circumstances or horse involved.
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Well if disagreeing with the level of rugging (which I would not be the only poster, for the first time in actual fact) that some people do (and I don't just mean, and haven't said, just PS or NMT) is classed as 'repeatedly ridiculing', then, oh well, yes, I have repeatedly ridiculed! Lol!
 
Moomin1 said:
Well if disagreeing with the level of rugging (which I would not be the only poster, for the first time in actual fact) that some people do (and I don't just mean, and haven't said, just PS or NMT) is classed as 'repeatedly ridiculing', then, oh well, yes, I have repeatedly ridiculed! Lol!
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Oh come on, Moomin - you haven't simply disagreed with them! You've been mocking them with repeated jokes about multiple HWs on t'other thread, when you can't even produce the quotation you claim is attributed to them :rolleyes: Anyway, they can fight their own battles I'm sure, and clearly you are more than comfortable with your conduct, so there's not much can be said, is there?
 
JFTD said:
Oh come on, Moomin - you haven't simply disagreed with them! You've been mocking them with repeated jokes about multiple HWs on t'other thread, when you can't even produce the quotation you claim is attributed to them :rolleyes: Anyway, they can fight their own battles I'm sure, and clearly you are more than comfortable with your conduct, so there's not much can be said, is there?
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Ermm, actually, I wasn't meaning them at all. I was joking about the general issue of over rugging. They seem to have taken it that it was them. It really wasn't. And believe me, if it was, I wouldn't hold back in saying so.
 
No, I would like an apology for your blatant lying, my horses don't wear 8 or even5 HW as insinuated by yourself REPEATEDLY , it's a gross misrepresentation of how NMT and I look after the boys.

As you are an adult hopefully you can see where an apology is due.

Honey your horses look fab :)
 
Sorry but think someone would have to be an seriously deluded to think a horse needs more than 2 rugs on at a time. I walked away from a potential loaner for one of mine as she boasted about all hers wearing 3 rugs in winter, even the shetland. Some horses local to me have been out in 15 degrees C recently with heavy weights with necks, I put my hand under them and they are sweating. I felt awful for them.
 
Oh well, then, who was the poster with 7 rugs on? Or indeed, the shetland with two HWs? And whose horse is so worked up it can't leave the yard? Clearly you didn't mean their Toby / CS etc as it was all a little joke that didn't have anything to do with them?!

eta, my cob has 2 rugs on tonight, weebarney. He will probably have nearer 4 in the depths of winter if it's very cold again - two fleeces and two MW turnouts. He could manage with a HW and a MW, but I find it's more flexible and useful to have layers. He lives out with limited shelter, is old and a poor doer. I'm damned if I'll leave him cold because of other people's ideas :rolleyes3:
 
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JFTD said:
Oh well, then, who was the poster with 7 rugs on? Or indeed, the shetland with two HWs? And whose horse is so worked up it can't leave the yard? Clearly you didn't mean their Toby / CS etc as it was all a little joke that didn't have anything to do with them?!
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Oh oh oh! But don't forget, that 'to be fair' Moomin did state that 'only one of them' can't leave the yard without exploding and rearing vertically....
 
JFTD said:
Oh well, then, who was the poster with 7 rugs on? Or indeed, the shetland with two HWs? And whose horse is so worked up it can't leave the yard? Clearly you didn't mean their Toby / CS etc as it was all a little joke that didn't have anything to do with them?!
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Oh no, I really meant those - yes they were aimed at PS. That is my genuine opinion of her horse. I don't think he is a relaxed horse. Simple. If that is ridiculing PS in some way, oh well. I also disagree that a shetland, clipped or not, needs 2 hw's, as did many people on the thread in question at the time. Again, opinion, not 'ridiculing'. (Funny, isn't it, how unless your face fits on this forum then you can have anything said to you without it being 'ridiculing', but the minute it's someone 'popular' it becomes 'ridiculing' or bullying!). The saga with Armas springs to mind. So many people disagreeing with what he is doing with HIS horse (just like of course PS is doing with HER horse), and it's fine, people can 'ridicule' away and say he is wrong as much as they like, but of course it's can't possibly be the same towards PS. How does that work, eh? Anyhow, such is life.

If you read the thread properly (which clearly you haven't) you would establish that the poster with the 7 rugs was NOT PS or NMT. I made that very clear.
 
Honey08 said:
Thank you.

Wasn't showing off about not having to put many rugs on them either, I have the opposite problem with the bay, she is the hottest horse I have ever met and I have had to bring her in by day, cover up sky lights, wet her and put a fan on her this summer!
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Wow!!!

She is very shiny, and looks very happy at any rate. You obviously know what is best for her as she is the picture of health :)
 
nikkimariet said:
And why not?

Clipped arab, clipped TB, clipped WB, clipped native. It's a clipped horse. You said it's ok for clipped horses to wear a rug.

So why is a clipped shetland not ok to wear a rug?
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I'm not even going to begin.

I'm pretty bored of typing now, so will leave it there. :-)
 
Moomin1 said:
Oh no, I really meant those - yes they were aimed at PS. That is my genuine opinion of her horse. I don't think he is a relaxed horse. Simple. If that is ridiculing PS in some way, oh well. I also disagree that a shetland, clipped or not, needs 2 hw's, as did many people on the thread in question at the time. Again, opinion, not 'ridiculing'. (Funny, isn't it, how unless your face fits on this forum then you can have anything said to you without it being 'ridiculing', but the minute it's someone 'popular' it becomes 'ridiculing' or bullying!). The saga with Armas springs to mind. So many people disagreeing with what he is doing with HIS horse (just like of course PS is doing with HER horse), and it's fine, people can 'ridicule' away and say he is wrong as much as they like, but of course it's can't possibly be the same towards PS. How does that work, eh? Anyhow, such is life.

If you read the thread properly (which clearly you haven't) you would establish that the poster with the 7 rugs was NOT PS or NMT. I made that very clear.
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Oh my sincerest apologies - please change the 7 to a 5 :rolleyes3:

I can't say I approve of some of the childishness on Armas' threads either, and you're very much mistaken if you think I ever condoned, or participated in it, but that's another matter. You're welcome to your opinion of their horses and their management, but the endless mocking comments about posters layering on HWs strikes me as childish and petty. It doesn't sound to me as if your horse is very happy and relaxed either. Perhaps that is a reflection on your management too?
 
I am starting to get a touch aggravated here, no CS is not the most chilled of horses but as being as he's acted the same since he was two, and has really improved hugely up to the present, and medical checks have thrown up ZERO issues, what on earth do you think I should do?!
The horse is a freak of nature dressage wise, but clearly doesn't respond *normally* in certain situations, I put up with an awful lot ofhis antics and give him a good,loving home in return for the freaky success he gives me.......and this horse has few other options left to him.
I would dearly love to see you try and do better.

He's actually very very easy round the yard, a doddle to clip , bath etc and lets kids and cats crawl all over him, he doesn't spend his entire time on high alert so let's not go down the " poor miserable CS" route shall we.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
I am starting to get a touch aggravated here, no CS is not the most chilled of horses but as being as he's acted the same since he was two, and has really improved hugely up to the present, and medical checks have thrown up ZERO issues, what on earth do you think I should do?!
The horse is a freak of nature dressage wise, but clearly doesn't respond *normally* in certain situations, I put up with an awful lot ofhis antics and give him a good,loving home in return for the freaky success he gives me.......and this horse has few other options left to him.
I would dearly love to see you try and do better.
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Ignore her! You honestly have no need to justify anything. All of her posts involving her horse are about how freaked out it is all the time, even on little hacks. Not to mention how she has blisters from pulling at it's mouth. I wouldn't normally read old posts by a poster, but she was being so condescending I assumed she was some sort of master horseman, and I wanted to see it for myself!! ;) You two frequently post pics of what amazing condition your horses are in, and god knows you're both ridiculously talented riders and do very well in your chosen discipline. We have yet to see any pics of Moomin's horse or her elderly unrugged pony, they could be stark coated skeletons for all we know. Like JFTD said (in a much better way than I can manage) Moomin is totally entitled to her opinion (phrased as a 'genuine question', but still), it's just the way she has put it across that is out of order.
 
....aaaaaaand [wades in late to arguement] everyone knows that the smaller the animal, the greater their heat loss due to increased surface area.
Shetlands do so well in winter because of their thick coats.
If you clip this coat off they are actually at greater risk of losing heat at a greater rate & becoming colder than a bigger horse. So actually a clipped Shetland could require more rugging than a 17hh warmblood. Just saying :)
 
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