Re: My mare looks like a hat rack....

Halfpass

Halfpass

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Ok so today I am a little embaressed. I looked at her yesterday and I think came home and dwelled on how awfully thin I thought she was. Compared to other horses on the yard she does look very ribby but having taken some photo's and had a good look I don't think she is as bad as I was imagining!!

Firstly photo from her advert taken Spring last year
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When I first got her October last year
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And finally today
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So thoughts please.
 
i would say she looks a bit ribby and could do with a bit more weight. but she looks in lovely condition apart from that. what food does she get and how much hay? one of my horses lost a bit of weight in the winter last year and fed build up mix which worked really well for him.
 
OMG actually seeing them that big makes me think she does look awful. God I want to cry
frown.gif

I have tried to make some changes today. First person up yard has agreed to feed her in morning and last one out in the evening will put another in for me.
Hay is put in field but we have a problem with the sheep eating it before our horses get a look in!! Will try and speak to YO about changing onto haylage for the stable!
She just isn't fussed by food at all. She went out at 9 this morning and I bought her in at 2 and took her for a little ride. Put her in her syable with some food and lovely hay and she just stands there staring out over the yard!
 
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i would say she looks a bit ribby and could do with a bit more weight. but she looks in lovely condition apart from that. what food does she get and how much hay? one of my horses lost a bit of weight in the winter last year and fed build up mix which worked really well for him.

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Thanks, she does have a shiney coat and bright eye. See previous post re feed and hay!
 

Well she has def lost condition.

She is not a "hatrack" yet but I would be concerned if she was mine that she was losing condition like this - certainly with the amount of feed you say she is getting.
 
I think she's thin, and I don't believe in any way in fat horses and I have kept ex-racers who always look lean. But I would be concerned about being able to see her shoulder blade quite so starkly. You obviously take lovely care of her, but given the amount of food you have told us that she eats, she does look like there is some issue with her weight to me, either stressing it off or not absorbing it properly in the first place.

Don't panic though, she doesn't look like she's about to peg out!
 
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OMG actually seeing them that big makes me think she does look awful. God I want to cry
frown.gif

I have tried to make some changes today. First person up yard has agreed to feed her in morning and last one out in the evening will put another in for me.
Hay is put in field but we have a problem with the sheep eating it before our horses get a look in!! Will try and speak to YO about changing onto haylage for the stable!
She just isn't fussed by food at all. She went out at 9 this morning and I bought her in at 2 and took her for a little ride. Put her in her syable with some food and lovely hay and she just stands there staring out over the yard!

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Please don't cry.

Is she just not interested in the food you give her? Do you know how much hay she will eat overnight?

I wouls say if she is not interested in the food you give her then you really do need to speak to your vet.

If she is trying to eat the food but giving up then maybe she needs a thorough dental examination.
 
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I think she's thin, and I don't believe in any way in fat horses and I have kept ex-racers who always look lean. But I would be concerned about being able to see her shoulder blade quite so starkly.
Don't panic though, she doesn't look like she's about to peg out!

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I saw that on the photo and thought it looked strange but I have another photo and it looks nothing like that so think it may just be the camera angle!! Having trouble getting the last photo off my phone right now though. Computer / phone playing up!
 
No that shoulder is a trick of the camera i think.
She has a very dark line there which is exaggerating the starkness of the blade itself (look at the before pics you can see it there too)
Yes she needs a bit of weight, but she is far from needing the BHS out to rescue her!
Is her worming up to date? (had a count done lately?)
Perhaps popping her on some pink powder might see her eating improve.
If she is gazing out over her door as opposed to eating, then find something that is going to give her the calories etc in a reasonably small feed so she is likely to finish it.
 
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OMG actually seeing them that big makes me think she does look awful. God I want to cry
frown.gif

I have tried to make some changes today. First person up yard has agreed to feed her in morning and last one out in the evening will put another in for me.
Hay is put in field but we have a problem with the sheep eating it before our horses get a look in!! Will try and speak to YO about changing onto haylage for the stable!
She just isn't fussed by food at all. She went out at 9 this morning and I bought her in at 2 and took her for a little ride. Put her in her syable with some food and lovely hay and she just stands there staring out over the yard!

[/ QUOTE ]


Please don't cry.

Is she just not interested in the food you give her? Do you know how much hay she will eat overnight?

I wouls say if she is not interested in the food you give her then you really do need to speak to your vet.

If she is trying to eat the food but giving up then maybe she needs a thorough dental examination.

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Its not like that at all. She just isn't bothered by food. She eats lots of hay I think about 20lb a good heaped barrow full anyway and its all gone by morning. She likes to watch the yard and whats going on and food just comes last. She will settle and eat once everyone is gone though as all her food and most of her hay is gone by morning. If I feed her in the mornin gthen try to muck out round her she just won't eat and gets inpatient to go out!! She is normally such a laid back girl but has been like this the last couple of weeks since the snow etc. She does get like this when something changes. She was like it when I fist bought her, then again when I changed her routine. I wonder if the weather has just stressed her a little??!!
 
Another thought.......tried a door hanging manger?
Perhaps if she can look and eat at the same time, she may do slightly better with finishing her food.
 
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If she eats all her hay over night, could you maybe give her some extra? Forage is good for putting weight on.

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She doesn't eat it all. there is awlays some left. She gets as much forage as she will eat!
 
All this advice is great. But its just confusing me more!!!
The feed company I called suggested adding Omega Rice http://www.falconequinefeeds.co.uk/supp_omega_rice.htm which I am assuming is similar to outshine etc. They suggested sticking to what she was getting and adding this!
Here's my plan - thoughts would be great.
Try the feed advice have ordered a 2 weeks supply so would hope to see a difference.
If no change then thought about trying milk pellets and pink powder alongside the Alfa A oil she already gets.
Does this sound slike a good plan?
 
is your heaped barrow of loose hay or of slices of hay? a heaped barrow od loose hay would last one of my boys 30minutes.

My boys are on 4 slices (half a bale) of hay a night. I am trying to keep their weight quite low so they only have 2 slices in a day.

A clients horse I have in who we are tyring to get weight on has 2 full nets at night - one of haylage, so heavy I can barely lift it, and the other of 3 slices of hay. He will then get another of hay or haylage for during the day.

From your earlier post it sounds like she is getting pleanty of hard feed.

My suggestion would be that you are perhaps not feeding enough forage.
After that I would be considering feeding a pre/probiotic to stimulate the good bacteria in the gut and to help the horse to get the most vits and mins from the food being given. Aloe vera is also very good for this.

I would also second the other people who suggested speaking to your vet. I think you would want to do bloods to see if there is some form of virus going on and also to check the worm count. I would also speak to your vet about ulcers.

I don't know what your work program has been but she needs to be carrying a lot more topline. Which obviously needs to come from weight gain first of all.

Don't be upset. You have recognised that she has lost weight and are keen to do something about it. If you want to look at changing her hard feed also I can highly recommend the team at Baileys. They will come out and assess her and give you a recommended diet. You are under no obligation to buy and the yard visit is free.

Good luck
 
TE its irrelavent how much she is giving haywise, the mare is simply not finishing what she is being given so giving more isnt going to solve the problem.
 
If the vet cannot find an underlaying cause for her apathy towards food, then you need to be looking for a feed that will gives her everything she needs in a very small portion.
Its volume of food that seems to be the problem, so condense it down.
How much hay does she get, and how much of it roughly does she eat?
My biggest concern would be that if she is not eating enough fibre her guts are going to become sluggish (which in turn could perhaps add to the problem?) so she would be getting pink powder, or a bl**dy good pre/probiotic to start off.
 
I'd get the vet to run a blood test, my pony went like this last year. His blood was all wrong. He was given eichannacea (sp), and a vit B liquid supplement to stimulate his appetite, remember horses can only digest very small feeds in one go, so liitle and often. Try a conditioning mix/cubes, you can also syringe some oil down her as that's good for condition if she won't eat it in her feed. I believe cubes are better when it comes to putting condition on (or so a feed rep from one of the big companies told me). May also be worth giving her a really thorough worming (maybe get your vet to do it via a tube).
 
camera angles can be deceiving! lovely shiny coat, but a little slim (but not a hatrack) the main thing that struck me is that she has lost all her top line off her neck and her rump! mainly muscle. is she still working in a shape using her hindquarters? have you had her back and saddle checked? loss of muscle also visiable on shoulder pics. i would still start with a blood profile from vet, then reassess diet, and get an experienced instructor to assess how she is going when ridden. some work on lunge with a pessoa might help to build the topline back up. blue chip also helps to build them up in addition to a revised diet. and some good Dr green when it arrives!
 
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camera angles can be deceiving! lovely shiny coat, but a little slim (but not a hatrack) the main thing that struck me is that she has lost all her top line off her neck and her rump! mainly muscle. is she still working in a shape using her hindquarters? have you had her back and saddle checked? loss of muscle also visiable on shoulder pics. i would still start with a blood profile from vet, then reassess diet, and get an experienced instructor to assess how she is going when ridden. some work on lunge with a pessoa might help to build the topline back up. blue chip also helps to build them up in addition to a revised diet. and some good Dr green when it arrives!

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She was not in work when I bought her mid sept and was very week with no top line. I began proper work at beginning of october and since then I have had regular lessons with a very good instructor and she is lunged regulary in a pessoa.

Sadly due to weather most of Dec and so far Jan had been a wash out for ridding. Especially schooling as school fozen and dcent hacking all too slippery.

As the top line had been built up but only recently it seems to have dimished very quickly!! Back and saddle both checked within last month and when she is ridden she still goes in a basic outline!!
Back to the grind stone now had first proper ride in 4 weeks today!!!
 
if she it is not barley sensitive how about easy boiled barley, take some crushed barely and boil like porridge takes about 5 min let it cool and then feed very appertising
 
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Last question. Are nuts better digested than mix? Would is be better to change from mix to nut?

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My vet says that nope, mixes (or straights) are much more easily digested by some horses (like PF) than nuts.
She does look a bit lean, but not worryingly so and her coat is lovely. I'd be adding oil to her diet, or perhaps some black oil sunflower seeds. PF always does well on sunflower seeds. If she's struggling to eat large feeds, then doesn't Bluechip do a feed that you feed in very little quantities? I'm SO out of touch with feeding in the UK; all ours ever get are oats and alfalfa, and if they're thin, then more alfalfa
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she has lost a bit of weight but her condition is still good. The main thing id focus on now is upping her feed a bit and also concentrate on schooling excersises and hill work as she has very little muscle and pretty much no topline. its a good sign youve noticed though, and you stopped it now so it wont be too hard to put right
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good luck with her xxx
 
I think hat rack is a bit extreme, but then I know the camera can add weight, so what we see is not what you see. Lovely kind looking horse by the way...

What I can't see anywhere halfpass is what hard feed she gets now. Does she have a feed balancer? What breed is she? Sometimes adding the feed balancer can make all the difference. I used to look after 2 TB's who could and did drop 50kg in a day and then go on permanent hunger strike until we discovered Blue Chip. Then they never did it again LOL so it was worth every penny.
 
definitely agree re hay - not sure you are actually giving her enough forage. I understand she is not eating the net, could you get a couple of bags of horsehage and give her a couple of sections of that instead of the hay net, i understand about no discount etc but it may work out cheaper than pumping her full of feed. Another option may be to use some sort of hay replacer overnight. Any of the laminitis trust approved feeds are designed to be fed as hay replacers or something like readi-grass etc in a big bucket. The feeds split into as many feeds as you can, I have a tb who came home from racing and put on 120 kgs on a high fibre low/starch/sugar diet but using a balancer, started off using blue chip pro and now use top spec as its cheaper!

I wouldn't be panicking just yet, the teeth need checking by a qualified EDT (possibly someone different to who you usually use just for an unbiased opinion) and you need to build the top liine through work (which you already know!) In the first picture she is a bit on the round side for my liking but if that was spring she obviously wintered well last year (although the difference could easily be the quality of the forage) Cubes are often lower in starch than mixes and most often higher in fibre too. If any of mine are a bit off colour as it were I also use the B-sure, it helps ensure B vitamins in the hind gut which are really important - and supposed to come from the fibre intake.

I stick with my recomendation from the first thread, balancer and outshine plus as much fibre as you can get in her should do the trick!

Don't panic!!
 
QR sorry if its already been said, what about apple cider vinegar? It really increases appetite, worked wonders on an elderly horse up my yard. x
 
Well she doesn't look like a hat rack, but like you have identified she could probably look a fair bit better.

Having read your other thread, the volume of feed you are giving her would mean she really shouldn't be looking poor.

To reiterate what others have said, first step would be EDT, vet to run routine bllods and tapeworm antibodies, plus feacal count.

To me she not only looks a bit poor but she also looks like a horse that has been working incorrectly. Add to that the photo from behind makes her look very asymmetric through pelvis (although that can be deceptive on a photo). For that reason, while the vet is out I'd ask him to check her back and also watch her move as if she is in low grade pain that could also account for the way she looks.

If all that yields nothing conclusive then I'd be looking to play with her feeding. I'd buy in some horsehage and see if she'll eat that, even if it's just a couple of slices in addition to her regular hay ration. I'd also try splitting out the different elements of her feed, see if there is one thing she likes more than the rest, if so in my mind it's better to give her what she'll eat happily!

Bear in mind that they can only eat so much in one meal before it just passes through them, therefore give as many smaller meals as is practical for you.
Also consider looking for feeds with higher conditioning properties for smaller quantity. Outshine/Coolstance copra/Equijewel etc. If she's not a hot head the topspec do super conditioning flakes.
 
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