RE: Suspected Navicular case. Received most devastating news, need honest opinions.

[CVSHotShot]

Posted a number of days ago about a little mare I bought earlier in the year, long story short I had her vetted before I bought her, she passed and I took her home, she was sound for roughly the first 3 months & began going lame on and off from there in. Gradually began getting worse, tripping & stumbling, being stiff & sore etc.
Had vet out who suspected Navicular & brought her in for 4 xrays (2 front on & 2 side on) & nerve block at 9am.

Still had received no word at 4:30pm so decided to take a trip up, sat for a further hour before they called me in to talk about what they had found...Vets first words 'It's a mess'

She was lame in both fronts with the left being the worst so he Nerve blocked both front feet ,still lame; moved up to fetlocks, still lame; moved up to knees, got about 80% soundness, lame BEHIND! Blocked her right hind fetlock, still lame; blocked hock, still lame; problem in right stifle & in both hocks

xrays done of ALL of the above, findings as below:

Complete imbalance of front left, joints lying at quite a severe angle causing a very obvious twist in the leg
laminitic in both fronts
Problems around navicular bone,
Pedal bones completely exhausted
New bone growth around these areas
Fluid around knee joints
Cysts in both hocks with new bone growth/fluid etc
Fragments of bone around the stifle joint

...Thanks if you are still reading BTW

Basically Horse is obviously in pain & vet has no hope that she will ever be completely sound again. He had fitted play-doe type material around frog area, supportive inserts & wedged shoes & administered painkillers/anti-inflamitories to make her more comfortable in the mean time. Problem is, a number of these are things which do not get better but can only be helped with lots of painkillers, anti-inflamatories, rest & specialist shoes etc. She would need steroid injections in the cysts and other problem areas every so often to keep on top her pain/lameness.

He suggested that this will be an extremely expensive process & I have been told that constant use of bute will eventually rot her stomach?

For now he recommended 1 complete week of box rest, 2nd week light walking in hand & 3rd week light walking under saddle as well as keeping on medication. He will then bring her in and review her & see which way things are going.

I am in such a dilemma now because financially I simply cannot afford these treatments and she probably will never be able to retire to grass because of the laminitis. I know that it would be unfair to let her suffer without her medication so my only alternative is either to have her PTS before she gets any more uncomfortable or either unrealistically try to find a home where they can afford to have her living comfortably with regular steroid injections, specialist shoes, painkillers etc...or then again is this even unfair to her?

I am at a complete loss because obviously her health and happiness is my priority but the thought of having to put to sleep such a kind and loveable and other wise very chirpy little horse is absolutely heartbreaking! I am devastated for her & really need some advice and personal opinions, what ever they may be
Many thanks.

 

[Henry02]

Unfortuantly I dont think anyone will want a horse that costs so much in medication....

Personally I would go on the vets three week programme. You then have time to see what happens, and time to think about what is best to do.

Is she insured?

 

[DuckToller]

Goodness, poor you and poor mare - have a hug and take a deep breath.

I would like to know how many of the higher problems have been caused by the navicular and laminitis - perhaps a lot of strain has been put on these joints by the pain in her feet, and maybe some of them will resolve?

I wouldn't make any sudden decisions - I expect you will get some good advice from people on here, and ultimately the decision is yours.

I have a similar problem - I was given a lovely mare that was going to be pts because she had navicular and had been de-nerved, but a year down the line she had gone lame again.

She came here a year ago, and I realised that she also had laminitis, so we started with box rest and diet, got her slimmer, sorted the laminitis (wasn't quite as easy as that, 2 steps forward 1 back etc, but got there in the end) and now she is field sound.

Long term I am not sure - she is ridden lightly and is coping, but may never stay sound enough to be a useful horse, so I have a similar dilemma - young and happy horse, but not much future...

How old is your horse?

 

[TPO]

There may be other options. I'm sure the BFT will be along soon to advise on their successful navic rehabs. CPTrayes has had a few horses that were due to be pts because of navicular and she returned them to ridden work.

I've been where you are with a navicular diagnosis and I only wish I knew then what I know now.

Good luck and chin up!

 

[mightymammoth]

blimey, second that hug from me...

If I were in your shoes I would contact http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/ to see if they have any thoughts.

Does your vet know your financial predicament? what did they suggest?

Agree with TPO hope cptrayes is along soon...

so sorry you have found yourself in this awful situation, life seems so unfair sometimes xx

 

[cptrayes]

I'm here folks and I am very sorry but this little horse has so many problems in so many areas already clear on xrays that I would have her put to sleep if she was mine.

 

[CVSHotShot]

Thanks guys, she is only 8yo & I don't have her insured
I don't want to make any rash decisions & tbh I was so numb after hearing the news I went blank when talking to the vet, have so many questions now.
I am trying not think negatively especially before her review, but I want to know my options incase we get any more bad news x

 

[mightymammoth]

Sorry to hear that cptrayes but I feared that would be the thought this little mare has a lot going on.

So terribly sad such a young horse with a loving and caring owner. My heart goes out to you it really does, please keep up posted about how she is and what happens in 3 weeks x

 

[Oberon]

What does the vet mean by "pedal bone completely exhausted"?

And and by new bone growth - are we saying side bone?

The only thing I can suggest is to get the vet report and contact Nic at Rockley to see if she thinks there is anything she could do.

Vets give out poor prognosis all the time - investigate a little more before giving up all hope. If she vetted sound earlier in the year - all these issues may not be permanent

 

[mynutmeg]

FRom what you've said it sounds like she's never going to be comfortable - if she was mine I'd give her a fabulous week on lots of pain meds so she's as comfortable as possible, and then say good bye in a calm environment with the least stress possible for her.

Really feel for you {{{{{hugs}}}}}

 

[Rebels]

How awful for you. I have a now retired horse who had a nagging lameness, came and went over 3 years and was diagnosed as various things before they bone scanned him. They came back with a list including navicular, a incorrectly healed fractured pedal bone, serious kissing spine and associated sacroiliac damage. We worked through all of these problems, expensive shoeing following an MRI, persuaded the insurance it was two different claims. Overall with the 3 years of work ups, remedial shoes etc etc we must have thrown nearly £10,000 at him ( bone scan was £1000 before sedation, stabling, MRI was £1100 again before anything else and he had some many x rays I'm surprised he didn't glow). All this was because we were told he would come back to eventing and he was tipped as 4*. The long and short of it was that he is sound on a good day, can be hacked around once or twice a month in walk. He is uninsurable, his treatment is too expensive to do without it so its a case of pain management. I think in hind sight he should have been PTS but I've passed that point with him, he is otherwise healthy and bright which makes any decision harder. Found him today having jumped a five bar gate on a slope, crippled having lost both front shoes so he has to stay in until farrier Monday. When I see him like that then I do question why i do let him keep going (happily stuffing a beautiful face as I left!)

 

[weebarney]

If it were me i'd be giving horse a chance to come sound. But i'd be going down the BF/ rockley route not the traditional vet farrier route. Are all the horses problems knock on effects from one or two things that could be put right?

 

[CVSHotShot]

What does the vet mean by "pedal bone completely exhausted"?

And by new bone growth - are we saying side bone?

If she vetted sound earlier in the year - all these issues may not be permanent

To be fair I need to get him to go over everything with me again and explain in more detail because I was in so much shock that I didn't take much in. In regards to the pedal bone, he just said that it was pretty much finished, something which obviously would not have taken place over night & probably as a result of her confirmation. The new bone growth, from what i gather, is that because her joints are in such bad order, they are trying to heal by growing new bone around the affected area and obviously because she is always moving it never amounts to anything.

With regard to her previous 'Vetting' ...because of the distance between her old home & where I live, we agreed that her vet would do the assessment & that she would pay half as a luck penny. I was buying her subject to vetting & the lady rang that afternoon to say that she had passed. On arrival I was handed a receipt...not a certificate but thought nothing much of it as I assumed that was how that particular surgery worked.
It wasnt until my vet said that her twisted leg should have at least been noted on the report that I explained I had never received one. Long story short I rang the surgery who carried it out, asked if I could get a copy of his findings/report, they said they would call me back & I have STILL not heard anything.

Without saying too much at the present time, my vet is suspicious that either no vetting ever took place - it was possibly a back-handed job between vet & owner or she was vetted, failed & I have just been given a receipt by the owner to say that it was paid for, not that she passed it . Vet recommends I involve the solicitor and take legal action against which ever is the guilty party.

Mind you, those are the least of my worries at present. Totally devastated for the little mare, such a pleasure to own.

 

[Oberon]

I'm sorry

Sounds like side bone - that isn't necessarily hopeless, but we need to clarify about the coffin bone as that is important.

This is a destroyed coffin bone

There is no way back from that - but it happens with chronic laminitis over a period of time.

You can get what some vets describe as demineralisation to the coffin bone, which isn't necessarily hopeless if correct mechanics are restored in time.

Or a 'ski tip' to the rim, where there is a little bone loss but not catastrophic.

You need a proper report explaining exactly what your vet means and then you can see what's what.

 

[CVSHotShot]

Thank u for your reply, I am going to give the vet a call tomorrow morning to go over a few things, hopefully he will put it in writing for me so I can re-lay it back more accurately. I also forgot to mention that there is arthritis setting in on top of everything else. I think it is completely and utterly shocking that there is soo much going at one go. To think she has been suffering all this time is so upsetting.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

OP if she were mine I'd get an immediate referral for a second opinion from a specialist centre such as Liverpool Uni. The reason I say this is that to my mind your vets have been using emotive language that won't have helped the situation. What do they mean long term bute usage will rot the horse's stomach? No it won't. Correctly fed it may eventually cause liver problems after years of high dosage but rot the stomach? That's drivel and even if it had some basis in fact, that's not a clinical way to explain things. Get a 2nd opinion before you make your decision. Good luck x

 

[applecart14]

FRom what you've said it sounds like she's never going to be comfortable - if she was mine I'd give her a fabulous week on lots of pain meds so she's as comfortable as possible, and then say good bye in a calm environment with the least stress possible for her.

Really feel for you {{{{{hugs}}}}}

I agree with BOF about the vet using such emotive language. But I also think this mare has had enough.
I am sorry OP. I can't see what three weeks more will solve, other than additional torment for your mind.

I agree with the above poster. I am so very sorry x

 

[Rebels]

Its its worth going back to the vets for a discussion when your head is clearer. When the told me about my boy then they gave me so much info I thought my head would explode and so I didn't take it all in in a rational way. I kept asking questions until I had it all clear.

 

[Bustermartin]

OP if she were mine I'd get an immediate referral for a second opinion from a specialist centre such as Liverpool Uni. The reason I say this is that to my mind your vets have been using emotive language that won't have helped the situation. What do they mean long term bute usage will rot the horse's stomach? No it won't. Correctly fed it may eventually cause liver problems after years of high dosage but rot the stomach? That's drivel and even if it had some basis in fact, that's not a clinical way to explain things. Get a 2nd opinion before you make your decision. Good luck x

^^^^ This - over the next three weeks I would definitely be getting a second opinion before making any decision

 

[jrp204]

OP, they didn't give you a vets report from the vetting? I appreciate it was earlier in the year but I would be ringing the vet to request the report you have paid for. It seems very odd that these problems were not picked up on.

 

[eventer28]

Terrible news for you but surely the initial vetting you had earlier in the year flagged up some areas of concern like the angles of joints/ inflammation? Anything at all? Was the horse in full work when you bought her?

 

[CVSHotShot]

OP What do they mean long term bute usage will rot the horse's stomach? No it won't. Correctly fed it may eventually cause liver problems after years of high dosage but rot the stomach? That's drivel and even if it had some basis in fact, that's not a clinical way to explain things.

Sorry Box_of_frogs, I realise that I made that sound as though the vet told me this, It was infact a close friend who advised me about this. However, I suppose this is actually quite good news

Thank you everybody so far for your opinions & kind words. I will be contacting both vets today for more information x

 

[cptrayes]

Correctly fed it {bute} may eventually cause liver problems after years of high dosage

I once recommended on here that a horse could be kept long term on bute and a vet who had done a lot of dissections on a research project PMd me to tell me that bute usually causes liver damage in even relatively short term use of moderate doses. It may still be in the horse's best interests to be given it, but she was concerned that we badly underestimate the damage that it does.

 

[Maesfen]

I'm here folks and I am very sorry but this little horse has so many problems in so many areas already clear on xrays that I would have her put to sleep if she was mine.

Sadly, have to totally agree. To pass her on to others now is a sure fire way for her to be mistreated; far better to know the outcome now rather than always be worrying if she was safe and not being able to do anything about it.

So sorry, such a shame and being realistic, the money you would be spending on just the treatment for those three weeks and what's already been done would go halfway to finding something else for you.

 

[Goldenstar]

Sadly I would get some Danilon get her on a good doese to make her comfortable take a few days to come to terms with it all read the full WRITTEN report from the vet digest it come to terms with it.
If she was mine I would PTS I am so sorry.

 

[CBFan]

So sorry... To be honest I totally agree with CPTrayes and Maesfen. If she were mine, I would PTS.

The Leisions (OCD) on her hocks and stifles are likely to be a genetic / hereditary condition NOT down to wear and tear and as has already started to happen, she will become arthritic in these joints.

Both Laminitis and Navicular can be rehabbed with BF But with the above conditions too... nope, I'm sorry (having had one with OCD before) I wouldn't go there.

Please do not try to re-home her as you have no control over her future, her pain relief or anything (been there done that got the Tshirt)

How utterly heartbreaking. I'm so sorry.

 

[christine48]

Sorry to hear this but with all of that going on she must be in a lot of discomfort. you have to think about what quality of life she is going to have. she is only 8 and could live another 20 years, could you afford to give her the on going veterinary care she will need. she will undoubtably get worse as she gets older.
i think the kindest thing would be to have her PTS, sorry.

 

[christine48]

I can't believe that none of this was picked up at the vetting 3 months ago, these things must have been present then.

 

[Tiffany]

So sorry to hear about your horse's diagnosis. Sounds like she's got a few issues If she was mine I'd either be getting a second opinion or talking through in detail with own vet once I'd got over initial shock.

Your head must be in turmoil not knowing what to do for the best.

((((hugs))))

 

[CVSHotShot]

I decided to contact the vet who carried out her 'Vetting' before I bought her. After days of constant nagging really, I managed to get talking to a senior vet at the practice. He told me that the man who was present on the day of this was not qualified to carry out a vetting! He was only standing in for another vet at the time & was only qualified to listen to heart, lungs & eyes...not carry out a 5 stage vetting for a purchase. The man on the phone acknowledged that this was a mistake on the other mans behalf as he SHOULD have contacted me to explain that this was not standard procedure for a vetting & that a more senior vet needed to carry it out. So in fact, the reason which I did not receive a report was because there was no vetting carried out!