Re that 'gadget kids' post in PG...

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Lill

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The bit about the 3 ring gag being on the bottom ring and the rider still wearing spurs....

I saw someone at a local show with the same get up, commented on it whilst watching, perhaps i shouldn't have but at the time my nutty cob i had i could only control on the bottom ring
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and i would never have dreamed of wearing spurs with him so i didn't understand why anyone would have both?

For my concerns i almost got a smack in the face
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and got told that the spurs were needed as said horse backed off the fence at the last minute...

Hmm...
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I agree with you. I believe you either have brakes or accelerators (sp) why have both. The horse doesn't know weather it's coming or going.
 

(I may be wrong here so don't shoot me down in flames!
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But surely the one is counteracting the other? You're sending the horse on with the spurs but holding back with the gag?

Or am I completely missing the point?

Never had a horse that's needed a gag etc so not entirely sure.
 
Perhaps because it was anticipating getting a smack in the teeth over the fence...

That's very presumtuous of me
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I had a horse that I needed to ride in a pelham and also wear spurs. I can see what you're saying, but some horses (like this one) knew his own strength and as I am only small I did not have the stregth to hold him in a snaffle, and he could also be quite dead to the leg at times. I think as long as the rider is kind they can work well together.
 
I think that combination is not very good - in the wrong hands.

Having bought a pony that was ridden strongly frm the leg with one of these gags, it totally ruined his jumping, which has never recovered, and his style could not be considered 'normal' at all - ie panics and rushes everything (said pony is now 22, so has an easy life eating and occasionally going for a hack)
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As someone who schools a horse in a dutch gag (on 2nd hole) or a waterford, and with great big spurs, I can at least explain why I chose to use a 'strong' bit with spurs.

My mum's mare is shire x clydesdale. She's built on the forehand, with a very heavy head and huge shoulders.

The gag enables me to school her without her head dragging on the floor, and means my shoulders can survive a schooling session. She is happiest with it on the 2nd hole - we've tried all combinations in the past.

Equally the waterford is used just as often to stop her leaning on the bit and means she has to carry herself properly.

I can use a loose-ring snaffle on her, but it takes me so long tg to get her working and off the bit, that we're both tired out before we've got any meaningful work done. She competes at RC dressage in a snaffle though, and done quite well, so it's obviously not been too detrimental to her.

I use spurs because she's lazy, but a lot more forward thinking now, and it means I can give her refined aids and sit stiller. I use huge spurs because my legs are too long for her body, and it stops me drawing my legs back.

Not all spurs/gag combinations are done for the hell of it or because it's fashionable
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think about this carefully...a double bridel is severe.....but in a dressage test you need to ride in a double with spurs....

i know hunters that are ridden in 3 ring gags with spurs...the gag is to stop rushing at fences and the spurs are used to proepl forwards...in the right hands the combination works...dont judge a book by its cover.....
 
Well, spurs aren't worn to make a horse go faster...and likewise a strong(er) bit isn't necessarily used to make a horse go slower. Spurs are also optional in their use...even if they are worn. The point of spurs is to get a quicker or sharper response to an aid. Put your leg on, get nothing, use the spur, get a response
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They can (and indeed should) be used independently of the brakes
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Not all horses have nice light mouths, or carry themselves well naturally. A different bit can assist in working around these problems.

As with a lot of things unfortunately, you see the right equipment being used in the wrong hands though...
 
Thank you for your explanations
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I was judging this on the fact the horse in question was like a double of my nutty cob i had at the time, both similar size and build, both charged and rushed their fences both had 3 ring gags on bottom ring (bad i know i switched to a pelham shortly after which worked better generally) only i never would have worn spurs on mine... and if he did think about backing off a fence then a small kick would have sufficed!
 
personally i think its one or the other, have strong bits on my horsey but certainly no spurs!!Mind you, i can kind of see the point as you may need to slow between fences and kick on over the fence. I did wear spurs over my first big xc course with a gag on as i wasnt sure how gutsy he would be (i didnt need to kick once!!)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Well, spurs aren't worn to make a horse go faster...and likewise a strong(er) bit isn't necessarily used to make a horse go slower. Spurs are also optional in their use...even if they are worn. The point of spurs is to get a quicker or sharper response to an aid. Put your leg on, get nothing, use the spur, get a response
tongue.gif
They can (and indeed should) be used independently of the brakes
wink.gif
Not all horses have nice light mouths, or carry themselves well naturally. A different bit can assist in working around these problems.

As with a lot of things unfortunately, you see the right equipment being used in the wrong hands though...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. You need a horse to be sharp off the leg, so use the spurs when needed, whereas when you have the power through engagement, you sometimes need extra help with holding the energy like on the way to a jump etc. otherwise the energy would all be lost out the front end causing horse to fall on forehand.
I agree tho that this is not a good combination for a novice rider.
 
I've used a 3 ring gag and spurs before as the horse could get really strong but still wasn't responsive to the leg. I wouldn't say spurs should be used for speed, more for accuracy in your aids and for horses that get dead to your legs, so i don't see a problem with using a stonger bit with them.
 
I used to ride my 16.1 TB in spurs and a three ring gag, albeit on the second ring. I did so because I was 15yrs old and whilst not completely over horsed he was a little strong cross country but my legs were too weak without spurs. Whilst in the wrong hands this combination is not advisable, I had a lot of instruction and help. I found the gag allowed me to steady when need be but the spurs allowed me to give more precise leg aids.
 
I jump my pony in a dutch gag on the 2nd ring and wear spurs. This is because she is strong when she gets going, but can take the p*ss and back off fences and not go forward. I find I do not need to use the spurs, she just knows they are there and goes forward of her own accord and that's when I need the brakes! She's a pony of 2 halves really, and I find it works for us.
 
Sorry if my post refered to spurs as speed and bit as brakes. It was more a figure of speach trying to say that you wouldn't use both pedals at the same time, nor should you use 2 very strong aids at the same time.

I hear what you are all saying, and every horse is different. I think it's fine if your horse is going well in them and is happy. I don't think that if a horse is stopping like it was described, that it should be a temporary fix and just stick gadgets on rather than try other methods first. I also don't think novice riders or children should use both, this is where people can get heavy handed.
 
Had a welsh sec D that used that exact combination when at shows(not all the time snaffle during non competeing times).You needed spurs to get him to go but then needed brakes when he went!!
 
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