Reaching your talent limit as a rider?

[TarrSteps]

My current reading recommendation is 'The Wisdom Of Psychopaths'. Seriously. Besides being just generally an interesting read, it has useful things to say about how ones view of the world can shape ones experiences.

 

[PaddyMonty]

I think it's the realisation that I've been having lessons with this instructor for 5 months, have come on in leaps and bounds in that time, more than I ever thought capable of (me doing half pass?! ). But the one thing that I can't get to grips with is how to ride the "different" Bill that only appears at shows. I'm letting Bill down, my instructor down, and myself down.

Having crossed paths a few times at comps the paragraph above speaks volumes. so lets just examine it briefly.
1) The horse that works as well at comps as they do at home is a rare and valuable animal indeed.
2) The rider that rides as well at comps as they do at home is even more of a rareity.
3) The horse that goes a little tense at comps compared to home is more common than a common thing on national common day.
4) The rider that gets tense and tries to fix EVERYTHING in 20 minutes before going in the areana is so common the word loses all meaning.

So take a horse that is a little tense and throw in a rider that is changing instructions to the horse every three seconds as they try to micro manage every step the horse takes and what do you get. NOT A GOOD DAY AT THE OFFICE.

The above is not aimed specifically at you, just a general observation from watching a lot of comps, but ask yourself how much of the above does apply?

I remember a comp some while ago when you were having a bit of a hiccup in the warm up. The trick that day was to just focus on one thing - riding the canter forward and free. A clear round iirc.

My point is, the more a comp matters to someone the harder they try, often with completely the reverse effect from the intended.
Its better to focus on a few key things and let the horse come to you at a comp.
Most of all remember - COMPS DONT MATTER. They're just a fun break from the training and should be approached as such.

 

[Luci07]

I was always taught you should be competing pretty much a level down from what you are doing at home to take nerves etc into account and I try to stick to that. I also compare how I did against my previous performance. I would expect my trainer or a pro to get a better tune or go further than I can...if they couldn't then there would not be much help they could give me. I haven't hit my ceiling yet but think it will be nerves stopping me before I think I can't learn to ride at x level.

 

[TheoryX1]

I never give advice on becoming a better rider as WTF do I know - I am a happy hacker, who has done a bit of low level dressage, showing, showjumping and loads of hunting. However, the mind is one of the most powerful tools anyone can have. I think it was Sartre (correct me if I am wrong, please), who said that our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, but that we are powerful beyond all measure.

I regularly use a business coach, who have really opened my eyes to the power of the mind, particularlly IVVM statements, or basically I Am...... statements. PM me for further information, it works.

You can do whatever you set your mind to do, honestly.

 

[Galupy]

COMPS DONT MATTER. They're just a fun break from the training and should be approached as such.

I was reading this thread thinking almost the same thing ... unless you are a professional, competitions are really just another part of training ... and a pretty fun part at that. You get to test how your training is coming along and get a whole lot more information about what you need to work on next. Put more on yourself than this when you compete and that's when you will start to feel like you aren't good enough because nobody can win or be perfect all of the time.

 

[maccachic]

It seems such a shame as I have a lot of determination and drive, but am hampered by my own ability. Has anyone else ever felt like this? I'm doing my lovely talented horse such a disservice.

Your horse really doesn't care what he is doing so long as life is good, hes well fed, cared for and enjoys his work. The higher level horses have a lot more strain placed on them so a horse would prob rather be at the lower levels.

 

[LEC]

I wrote an article on e-venting about the challenges of being an amateur.

One thing I will add is that riding is one of the sports along with sailing where actually you will not hit a limit. Often I find if I hit a brick wall, I try something different to help get me out of the rut.
BTW I have had several lessons on warming up at events in all phases to give me the skills I need to make sure the horse is going the best they can at that stage.

 

[andytiger]

I think you are being to hard on yourself you hadn't been very well so you prob weren't at your best anyway, have you ever had someone video you when having a lesson I bet you and your horse go just as well as your instructor looked its just you have a different perspective when your on board
Most of us haven't got natural talent,and i dont beleive we have a talent limit you have either got it or you havent other wize we would all be heading for the olympics iithink as long as we keep learning and practicing and our horses and fit healthy and enjoying what there doing then that makes you a winner in my eyes anyway
Don't be to hard on yourself don't compare yourself to others there is always gonna be someone better just be the best you can be

Hope this helps x

 

[BeckyD]

My current reading recommendation is 'The Wisdom Of Psychopaths'. Seriously. Besides being just generally an interesting read, it has useful things to say about how ones view of the world can shape ones experiences.

Haha that definitely doesn't sound like honeymoon reading. I will read it anyway though as I always find that sort of thing interesting.

Having crossed paths a few times at comps the paragraph above speaks volumes. so lets just examine it briefly.
1) The horse that works as well at comps as they do at home is a rare and valuable animal indeed.
2) The rider that rides as well at comps as they do at home is even more of a rareity.
3) The horse that goes a little tense at comps compared to home is more common than a common thing on national common day.
4) The rider that gets tense and tries to fix EVERYTHING in 20 minutes before going in the areana is so common the word loses all meaning.

So take a horse that is a little tense and throw in a rider that is changing instructions to the horse every three seconds as they try to micro manage every step the horse takes and what do you get. NOT A GOOD DAY AT THE OFFICE.

Very true. I just need to find a system that works.

I was always taught you should be competing pretty much a level down from what you are doing at home to take nerves etc into account and I try to stick to that. I also compare how I did against my previous performance. I would expect my trainer or a pro to get a better tune or go further than I can...if they couldn't then there would not be much help they could give me. I haven't hit my ceiling yet but think it will be nerves stopping me before I think I can't learn to ride at x level.

I'm competing 1-2 levels down from working (competing Novice, working I don't know technically what level it's called but we've got half pass started and we're working gently on flying changes). I was overjoyed at how good he looked with the pro - that's not an issue (hence the )) Unfortunately it's the comparison against my previous performance that is letting me down. I'm not riding any better each time I go out! It's like I've hit a limit - hence the post.

 

[BeckyD]

You can do whatever you set your mind to do, honestly.

Hmm see I can't quite convince myself of that fact Hence the need to adjust my mental thought processes!

I was reading this thread thinking almost the same thing ... unless you are a professional, competitions are really just another part of training ... and a pretty fun part at that. You get to test how your training is coming along and get a whole lot more information about what you need to work on next. Put more on yourself than this when you compete and that's when you will start to feel like you aren't good enough because nobody can win or be perfect all of the time.

I'm not trying to win or be perfect - I'm just trying to test how my training is coming along and hoping to feel that I have ridden better than the last outing. I'm definitely riding better at home but I'm not riding any better when I'm at comps and I seem to be stuck in a rut of willing myself to ride better but not actually riding any better. I can't get information on what I need to work on next as the issues that come up in a test very, very rarely happen at home!

Yes competitions are fun and I love going out and doing all these things I could never afford to do as a child, but you do get to a point when after 18 months of the same thing happening at a dressage competition, you've got to take a long hard look at yourself and say "right, where am I going wrong and is there anything I can do about it?". Hence my post. Lots of fantatsic suggestions from people, thank you!

Your horse really doesn't care what he is doing so long as life is good, hes well fed, cared for and enjoys his work. The higher level horses have a lot more strain placed on them so a horse would prob rather be at the lower levels.

No I know and that wasn't what I meant; I didn't mean he should be competing at a high level. He's an irish draught x whose life revolves around his tummy; he'd far rather be eating than competing! I meant that I'm letting him down in terms of the quality of work I'm able to ride for when I'm at a comp. He's capable of so much more in terms of quality of work but because I ride like a numpty at comps, he's not able to show himself off. So people assume he's not capable when in actual fact he's very capable and it's ME who's the numpty.

I wrote an article on e-venting about the challenges of being an amateur.

One thing I will add is that riding is one of the sports along with sailing where actually you will not hit a limit. Often I find if I hit a brick wall, I try something different to help get me out of the rut.
BTW I have had several lessons on warming up at events in all phases to give me the skills I need to make sure the horse is going the best they can at that stage.

I'll have a look! I do need to get my flat instructor to a comp. Thankfully Baydale was at an event last summer and warmed me up for SJ once and I learnt a lot from that, and from PaddyMonty's help at an SJ comp. I need to do the same for dressage!

I think you are being to hard on yourself you hadn't been very well so you prob weren't at your best anyway, have you ever had someone video you when having a lesson I bet you and your horse go just as well as your instructor looked its just you have a different perspective when your on board
Most of us haven't got natural talent,and i dont beleive we have a talent limit you have either got it or you havent other wize we would all be heading for the olympics iithink as long as we keep learning and practicing and our horses and fit healthy and enjoying what there doing then that makes you a winner in my eyes anyway
Don't be to hard on yourself don't compare yourself to others there is always gonna be someone better just be the best you can be

Hope this helps x

Thank you yes he looks amazing in my video'd lessons; that's why it's so frustrating that I can't get the same thing (or even anywhere near it!!) at dressage comps. It was the fear and dawning realisation on the weekend that I am now at the best I can be and I can't go any further, that inspried the post. I'm lucky that I don't have the sort of mentality that compares myself to others. I focus on myself and my horse and I just want to be able to do the best we can. Which we don't

BUT WE WILL!!!!!

Thank you everyone; very grateful for your input and suggestions, as ever.

 

[Scarlett]

If you keep thinking like ou are OP then you will drive yourself mental

Of course we all have limits on our ability - but, like we do with our horses, we can better ourselves physically and mentally. You just need to identify what the issues are and decide on steps to take to improve them just as we do with our horses. If it's physical then you can improve that, pilates, schoolmaster lessons, mechanical horse, cardio etc etc, and if it's mental then that's doable too with books, or hypnotherapy, or a sports psychologist etc etc.

You school your horse to improve it, why can you school yourself?

Re the pro riding your horse well. Of coure he does, he's a pro, thats kinda the point...! Just like you can probably do your job better than most people, so can he. I've had my trainer ride my guys a lot over the years and I genuinely cannot remember seeing her ever get anything other than a good stride to a fence. That doesn't make me feel bad because I get some massive howling misses at times, it just tells me I'm spending my money well and shows me what is possible and what to aim for.

I never undersand the 'I'm letting my horse down' comments. The horse doesn't care. Really it doesnt. Every horse has 'potential' to do more, it doesn't mean it's in the horses best interests to try and reach it.

 

[Luci07]

Well I think you have answered your own question!. There is another good saying which is "do as you always do, you will still get what you always had" which I always took to be relevant to how I behave in relationships (doh!) but is just as applicable to you. So .. you have identified that you work in a certain way, you get a certain result and can't change that... so the idea of having someone warm you up is brilliant. In my limited outings with my ISH who is green, I have had to change things each time. At home we crack on to warm up and ignore any hissy fits. At a new venue, I need to walk him around on a loose rein for what feels like a lifetime so he can relax in a new environment. Pushing him on to focus on me didn't work. At home it is what I need to do. I would also get someone to video you at home and at a show and compare the 2. I would also try to look at your boy as if it was someone else riding him. What would be your honest thoughts?

 

[TarrSteps]

Well I think you have answered your own question!. There is another good saying which is "do as you always do, you will still get what you always had" which I always took to be relevant to how I behave in relationships (doh!) but is just as applicable to you. So .. you have identified that you work in a certain way, you get a certain result and can't change that... so the idea of having someone warm you up is brilliant. In my limited outings with my ISH who is green, I have had to change things each time. At home we crack on to warm up and ignore any hissy fits. At a new venue, I need to walk him around on a loose rein for what feels like a lifetime so he can relax in a new environment. Pushing him on to focus on me didn't work. At home it is what I need to do. I would also get someone to video you at home and at a show and compare the 2. I would also try to look at your boy as if it was someone else riding him. What would be your honest thoughts?

This is a very good idea.

I'm a bit surprised so few coaches here ever see their students/clients at horse shows, as I think it can be, as you have observed, a very different situation. Even if the coach is not going to be there regularly, he/she can help you develop a system - or, more likely a range of plans and responses, depending on the day - to prepare more effectively. It's probably worth both a session and a video, so you can examine the situation yourself and review after the fact.

 

[scheherazade]

Thank you for such an interesting post and insightful answers, I too have very similar issues, especially at comps and this has given me some excellent ideas x

 

[Firewell]

I think the oly limit to what we can achieve is in our heads tbh. Yes some riders are more natural, have more natural balance, natural feel and therefore find it easier. However a talented rider could be the most natural in the world but if they are crippled by self doubt then they are never going to achieve anything.
I think horses more than most sports is down to self belief. It is the horse that is performing they are the ones that need to jump, run, dance. We just need enough balance to stay on and we need to communicate what we want and that is down to our instinct and we all have it, it's how we evolved. We all know horses can read our minds... if we utterly believe in ourselves they do.
I know ordinary riders who do extra ordinary things and that is because they don't sit on a forum over analyising everything they do or don't do when they ride. They get on, they 'know' they can do it, they ride with their instinct because they are not crippled by their mind. Professionals don't care about your horse, they don't even really care about you. It is their job they don't think about it they just do it. They ride every single day, lots of different horses, their bodys are trained to respond to different scenarios without thinking about it through practice. They are not the holy grail. They are just ordinary people who do the same thing day in day out.
There is no reason to say that you yourself cannot be a professional rider if you really wanted. If one way doesn't work with your horse, try another. Practice.
A lady at my yard has found she has become more successful showjumping by dragging her horse out the field covered in mud chucking it in the lorry with dirty tack and just taking it to a show treating the competition like it's just another riding session. She hasn't changed her riding, she has changed her attitude.
My OH's friend is a top polo player. Yes he has thrown money at it but he also cannot do anything unless he is the best. He couldn't ride for toffee when he started but he picked up a stick, kicked the pony on, was determined not to fall off, had in his head he would win.. and now he has won every major polo championship in the world and owns the worlds biggest and best polo pony breeding operation. He said to me over christmas that he was getting bored of polo now as he had won everything, was the best in the world and was thinking of scrapping it all together and finding another sport to take up...

Trust me just get on that horse, get out there and just do it.

 

[jenki13]

It sounds like you have anxiety/arousal issues when it comes to competitions - you both get too aroused & this leads to tension & with horses this is a vicious circle as you feel tense so he tenses so you tense you know the one.

Next time your at a competition try this:
-get the horse tacked up (& yourself) book in & everything else that may be "stressful" Then:
- Go find a quiet spot (say in the trailer), close your eyes take a deep breath and exhale slowly. Then picture yourself doing your dressage test with the movements as you'd perform them at home from start to finish.
You might need to practice this at home a couple of times as you want to get to the point you "feel" the horse underneath you as you perform each movement in your mind.
-At the end of the test (even include the salute) take another deep breath, exhale, open your eyes & go get on the horse.

Then in the warm-up. If you start feeling tense:
- Deep breath and imagine it going in and "washing" down over your body (as a light) which as it goes from head to toe you muscles relax
- Then Imagine you are at home, warm up as you would for a lesson. Don't even think about the test <- if you have a friend with you get them to keep an eye on the time so you don't even have to think about going in.

Now, I don't do much dressage - I use the imaging technique for SJ instead - but just as I'm sat as "next to go in" for my round I run through the course again.... it helps that my horse is very quite & stands still... This may help a) you remember the test & b) go in with a positive mind. Or you may find it better to not do the 2nd "run through" give it a couple of tries and see how you feel.

Also by the sounds of it you have come on in leaps & bounds so don't be hard on yourself .

 

[BeckyD]

Well I think you have answered your own question!. There is another good saying which is "do as you always do, you will still get what you always had" which I always took to be relevant to how I behave in relationships (doh!) but is just as applicable to you. So .. you have identified that you work in a certain way, you get a certain result and can't change that... so the idea of having someone warm you up is brilliant.
...
I would also get someone to video you at home and at a show and compare the 2. I would also try to look at your boy as if it was someone else riding him. What would be your honest thoughts?

That I'm rubbish and shouldn't be allowed on a horse

I do study my videos quite obsesssively, and keep thinking "what the heck am I doing?! Why aren't I doing X or Y?". It's the doing the X or Y in the test that's the problem. I will speak again with my flat instructor tonight about her helping me warm up at a show. We've discussed it before but due to our respective workloads it wasn't physically possible. Hopefully 2 months later we might now be able to find a combined window.

This is a very good idea.

I'm a bit surprised so few coaches here ever see their students/clients at horse shows, as I think it can be, as you have observed, a very different situation. Even if the coach is not going to be there regularly, he/she can help you develop a system - or, more likely a range of plans and responses, depending on the day - to prepare more effectively. It's probably worth both a session and a video, so you can examine the situation yourself and review after the fact.

Yes it's got to be done. I keep thinking I can fix it myself but I'm not managing to so do need help.

I think the only limit to what we can achieve is in our heads tbh.
...
Trust me just get on that horse, get out there and just do it.

Haha that's what I've been doing and it's not been working But I do now have lots of suggestions, and thank you I do totally understand where you're coming from.

It sounds like you have anxiety/arousal issues when it comes to competitions - you both get too aroused & this leads to tension & with horses this is a vicious circle as you feel tense so he tenses so you tense you know the one.
...
Now, I don't do much dressage - I use the imaging technique for SJ instead - but just as I'm sat as "next to go in" for my round I run through the course again.... it helps that my horse is very quite & stands still... This may help a) you remember the test & b) go in with a positive mind. Or you may find it better to not do the 2nd "run through" give it a couple of tries and see how you feel.

Also by the sounds of it you have come on in leaps & bounds so don't be hard on yourself .

I don't get tense in the traditional sense. If I do, it's so subtle that I'm not aware of it and I am physically fairly self-aware. I'm quite laid-back, I compete at a level that is comfortable/easy (which my flat instructor says is part of my problem as I find it all too easy and don't have the kick up the backside to try hard), Bill is the easiest horse to ride on the planet as he rarely does anything bad - his tension manifestation is to go as slowly as possible.

I do use all the imagining techniques and they help me with dressage/SJ/XC and I swear by them.

The problem is that I seem to get in the test and then switch off into the "oh it's going wrong again" pathetic person who knows what's wrong but can't seem to motivate myself to do anything about it! I think it probably comes down to me not having a winning mindset. I don't care whether I win or not and so I think when it goes wrong "oh well we won't win this one never mind" and just sit there like a lemon.

What a wally! Still, now I've realised it I need to fix it and thank you all again for taking the time and thought to reply.

 

[JFTDWS]

This is a really interesting thread to read. I don't think I have anything constructive to add, since I'm of a similar mentality. I actually once had a conversation as an undergrad with my tutor after getting a lot of feedback on my second year dissertation from the Prof in my lab. I said that I should be able to produce something better, which would need less input from the Prof. Tutor asked if I genuinely believed I should be able to produce work that would be as good as a Professor with 30 odd years experience could (and therefore not need feedback). I replied that I was aware that it was absurd, but yes I did believe that

I have the same mentality to riding - I actually let someone I was going to get lessons off (v experienced BD person) ride Fergs - she couldn't get anything out of him, and I beat myself up for weeks about how badly I must have trained him, even though he works much better for me (and other people). It's not logical at al. I might have to read some of the book recommendations on here too

Good luck with things - you sound more positive already so it's bound to go better from here on in It certainly seems to me, from your posts which I've seen in the past, that you're doing a good job with your beast

There are a lot of sports outside of the norm where you can shine, have you ever thought about tentpegging, horseback archery, polocrosse, horseball etc?

This is my approach... I'm currently learning that I'm rubbish not only at traditional sports but most alternative sports too

I think it was Sartre (correct me if I am wrong, please), who said that our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, but that we are powerful beyond all measure.

I've seen that attributed to many people - from Nelson Mandela to Marrianne Williamson (no idea who she is ) but I'm pretty sure it's not Sartre. It's a bit upbeat for him

 

[kirstyhen]

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.' We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone and as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

Maianne Williamson -'A Return to Love' (or if you're a idiot like me, that bit from Coach Carter... )

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

I have a winning mindset but that can also work against you as I find if I'm not going to win what's the point! (Which is also not healthy)! I use visualisation techniques especially for x-c where I get very nervous, which is why I always like to walk the course the eve before so I can imagine riding it all night!

 

[JFTDWS]

Maianne Williamson -'A Return to Love' (or if you're a idiot like me, that bit from Coach Carter... )

Or if you're a youtube geek like me, that massively over-used quotation used as a sound track on so many horsey videos

Google tells me it was once quoted by Mandela, hence the mis-attributions.

 

[kirstyhen]

Or if you're a youtube geek like me, that massively over-used quotation used as a sound track on so many horsey videos

Google tells me it was once quoted by Mandela, hence the mis-attributions.

It was never actually quoted by him, but it is in the film Invictus about him and the South African Rugby team.

 

[JFTDWS]

It was never actually quoted by him, but it is in the film Invictus about him and the South African Rugby team.

*reminds self never to trust google*

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[racingdemon]

haven't read all your replies, but really wanted to add something about you riding at shows & the 'different' horse you get

one of the most valuable things i learnt about competing was how to actually warm up, i built up a collection of things i do in each warm up, so i know i'm working my horse to the best of my ability, rather than bumbling around looking at everyone else going really well and thinking hmmm.... lallallala..... haven't they got a lovely horse, oh look so & so is here..... insert other unfocussed stuff as required, then realising actually i have 10 mins to go & i'm not ready, these days i'm usually ready to go in early/on time, with that nice feeling that i've done everything i can to get him where he needs to be warm up wise, now i can go & enjoy my test/round/class

it doesn't always work, or get me a sub 30 test result, but it gets me a better result than if i bumble about looking at the view (yes.... honestly!)