Reacting to girth pressure - thoughts?

Nocturnal

Nocturnal

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Hey all, hoping to pick your collective brains again 😊

My 5yo has always been slightly iffy about the girth. He’s not grouchy around being girthed up, but he can dissociate when girthed up at times. He is also guarded around lateral flexion with the girth done up, and sometimes when expanding the abdomen (for eg backing up or spooking at something else) he’ll take a short sharp breath and react to the girth pressure (spook kind of reaction).

He’s been scoped clear of ulcers, bloods taken for hind gut issues came back clear. He’s been checked by the vet, regular saddle fitting and McTimoney. No one can find much wrong physically, but I’m convinced there’s something.

His back has never been sore and he has no problems with the saddle. The issue is with any circumferential pressure - girth, surcingle, lunge line around his girth area etc.

Any ideas for where to go next? The vet’s gone away to discuss it with the team but so far we’re stumped.
 
Lucky Snowball said:
My first thought, probably old school, would be an elastic surcingle with a Breast girth and turn him out in it until he gets used to it and relaxes or reacts in such a way that it gives you clues. Video the turn out in case something happens straight away.
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Thanks. Desensitisation is the route I’d take if I were sure there were no physical cause, but I still feel there is discomfort somewhere.

The vet is convinced that if there were hindgut issues significant enough to cause symptoms, it would show in his bloods. Yet when I was grooming the other day, he seemed uncomfortable along his right hand side (around where the caecum would be).
 
My littlest cob is very touchy around her pectoral muscles, especially on the right. I've found a H-girth (WOW) with a small sternum plate has been best for her so it might be worth having a play with different styles

Her gut isn't the best - possibly historic worm issues - and I have to girth slowly and preferably with some pony nuts in a bucket.

Having seen some of the dissections that float around on social media there are a lot of quirks with the rib structure that we can't see under hair, flesh and muscle so I'm conscious there might be 'something' underlying but she's fine with it being done slowly and is fine being ridden.

ETA- nothing showed up in bloods in relation to her gut but she is very sensitive (too much grass, rougher hay etc) and her worm count was high when she came to me so I suspect she isn't 100%.
 
Old school vet once said that cross surcingles were a modern scourge. His thoughts were that horses needed to get used to the feel of something round their body before being backed like the old fashioned surcingles that we all used back in the old days. Sorry this isn't much help to you but he did believe it caused some horses an issue.
 
I would possibly try another bodyworker, may horses need 2-3 with each doing something different depending on the needs at that time. An osteopath or perhaps a really good soft tissue worker, to complement the McTim, especially if they're really good on movement and posture as well, would be well worth a try. Postural/movement compromises can show themselves in the chest, as the pecs mentioned above.

equitopiacenter.com has some good resources on assessing your own horse's posture, movement patterns and musculature so that you can better work with the professionals. I've had customers who, when we do this sort of assessment, have been able to go back to vets with more insistence and point them in certain directions and get diagnoses after getting nowhere (in more than one case the vet insisted it was behavioural and to send the horse to a professional rider).
 
eggs said:
Old school vet once said that cross surcingles were a modern scourge. His thoughts were that horses needed to get used to the feel of something round their body before being backed like the old fashioned surcingles that we all used back in the old days. Sorry this isn't much help to you but he did believe it caused some horses an issue.
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I’d second this. I was always taught to lunge the breakers with baler twine from the roller and round and under their tails so they got used to the feeling of something around the back end. This was also useful for before they started wearing rugs too.
 
I’d maybe play around with some different girth styles to see if maybe she just finds the current style uncomfortable for whatever reason (maybe it pinches sometimes for some reason) eg things like the WOW freespace or H girth, anatomical vs non anatomical, string girth (I think Stubben do a good one?), elastic vs non elastic, maybe try a sheepskin girth sleeve?

(Maybe not all of this at once! Just some things you could play with)

But if you’re not getting a Eureka moment by changing out equipment then I’d agree with getting a 2nd opinion.
 
I agree with trying some different types of body workers - it took 5 before I found one one who picked up an area I'd always suspected of being a bit problematic on one of mine.

You also mentioned discomfort on the right hand side - I may have this the wrong way round, but have you tried a course of really good liver detox?
 
Second the sheepskin girth cover. And trying different styles of girth. The sheepskin ones do get a bit sweaty but if you buff them up after each ride they should dry out properly.

Also do you know where his girth groove is? Depending on horse / breed they vary a lot, from waaay back to right behind elbows. The right girth sits vertically down from the saddle, in the groove.

Finally, what does he do when you don't tighten it to usual holes? I've heard from saddle fitters that many people have their girths too tight [early PC training, bitter experience of a saddle slipping round, etc], and you check it at the sternum, not on the sides, where there is a natural little gap anyways.

I'm sure sbloom and the other saddle experts can put me right if I'm off course about the above! I hope things work out with this issue. ps: on the rotund Clydie/Australian stock horse I ride for a friend, he's in the crescent shaped anatomical, with a sheepskin cover.
1759797134725.webp
 
Thanks all for the suggestions.

Regarding girths, I have tried a number of different ones. WOW freespace, fairfax, stubben string (NOT good 😱). Currently in a Shires Supafleece, which I thought was better at first but actually, he still shows the same behaviours when it’s done up, maybe slightly muted but he’s still not happy. It’s never over tightened.

Liver detox - I usually do spring and autumn, he’s about to start the Ron fields one for this autumn.

I will start researching other kinds of body workers in my area to try and get a different angle on it.
 
I disagree that girths should drop straight down into the girth groove, it's what leads many people to place their saddle too far forwards. The saddle sits where it is designed to sit (ie to sit behind the shoulder blade to whatever extent the design dictates) and the girth should then, through correct location of girth straps on the saddle, be able to be angled into the girth groove as necessary.
 
I would say his girth groove is slightly forward of where the saddle sits. This is from the ill fated trial of the string girth:
IMG_6020.jpeg

It was maybe not done up enough as slipped back a touch. But he’s relaxed enough until he flexes against it.
 
I would potentially argue that the girth straps on the saddle aren't in the right place for him, the girth COULD be more vertical if there was a point or closer-to-point strap, different saddles have different ways of balancing the saddle front to back versus girth placement. They're not interchangeable so you can't just slap a point strap on and expect it to work tickety-boo, but it stands out to me that girth placement might be an issue here, though obviously you're finding the same reaction with surcingles etc. I think it's unlikely, but not impossible, that an issue with saddle and girthing makes him sensitive to other pressure there. And very unlikely if the bodyworker can't find pain in that area.

Then add in that the saddle has slipped back...so the photo isn't illustrative of how the set up should be, you start seeing the pain of being a saddle fitter 😁 . If it's slipping back AND has the girth straps in the middle of the saddle, or to the rear, then there's a chance the saddle is a bit wide or otherwise low in front. Just adding ALL the thoughts, as with NQR issues like this details can matter a lot.
 
sbloom said:
I would potentially argue that the girth straps on the saddle aren't in the right place for him, the girth COULD be more vertical if there was a point or closer-to-point strap, different saddles have different ways of balancing the saddle front to back versus girth placement. They're not interchangeable so you can't just slap a point strap on and expect it to work tickety-boo, but it stands out to me that girth placement might be an issue here, though obviously you're finding the same reaction with surcingles etc. I think it's unlikely, but not impossible, that an issue with saddle and girthing makes him sensitive to other pressure there. And very unlikely if the bodyworker can't find pain in that area.

Then add in that the saddle has slipped back...so the photo isn't illustrative of how the set up should be, you start seeing the pain of being a saddle fitter 😁 . If it's slipping back AND has the girth straps in the middle of the saddle, or to the rear, then there's a chance the saddle is a bit wide or otherwise low in front. Just adding ALL the thoughts, as with NQR issues like this details can matter a lot.
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Yes I see the difficulty lol. I do struggle to get the girth sitting nicely on this saddle and agree the straps aren’t in the best place for him, but also feel it’s a separate issue to his discomfort, as like you say he doesn’t seem to be sore from the girth, it’s more about the type of pressure and how he’s expanding his abdomen.

The saddle pad was slipping back as I was using the straps to keep the reins from slipping forward while taking photos lol. joys of having no throatlash to loop the reins in.
 
sbloom said:
Ahh so not the saddle slipping back? It looks like it might be a smidge far back, but I agree, unlikely to be causing the girth area issues.
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A touch far back yes, though doesn’t slip back usually.
ThreeFurs said:
FWIW -- some new research on girth pressure.
Marlin, D., et al. (2025). The Effect of Girth Design and Girth Tension on Saddle-Horse Pressures and Forelimb Stride Kinematics in Rising Trot
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Interesting reading, thanks for posting :)
 
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