Real numpty question........do you send the passport when loaning out your horse????

Yes. It's not a document of ownership, and it is illegal for it not to be with the horse when it travels. If there is an inspection of the yard, all the passports also must be producable. There are far better ways to deter someone from stealing a horse on loan than a passport (given how easy it is to get a new passport issued), and frankly, you are trusting them with your horse and presumably all its tack/rugs etc - the passport is the least of your worries!!
 
In short, no are not obliged to provide the passport to the loaner.

When you sell a horse you must give the passport to the buyer at the time of the sale. 'Sell' includes any transfer of ownership. You are not transferring ownership when loaning.

S.4, Horse Passport Regs 2009
 
Eeeek mixed views on that one.

If you dont send it with the horse how can the vets make note of the vaccination records etc???
 
Berkeley said:
In short, no are not obliged to provide the passport to the loaner.

When you sell a horse you must give the passport to the buyer at the time of the sale. 'Sell' includes any transfer of ownership. You are not transferring ownership when loaning.

S.4, Horse Passport Regs 2009
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However:
A horse's passport must be carried each time it is transported. An inspector can also require that a passport be produced within three hours at any other time. (A summary of Section 20-23 from H&H).

So as long as you are a) certain that the horse will never need to be transported, including to the vets, and b) confident you can get to the loaner's yard within 3 hours at all times, then don't hand over the passport!
 
I think i will send it with him. He will be traveling at his loan home and also its about 2.5 hours away so by the time i got home and found where i had "filed" it then drove 2.5 hours i think i would be pushing it to make it there in 3 hours lol.

I have taken colour copies of the whole of it etc.

Thanks for your help, although surprised at the mixed views! i thought i was asking something really silly whilst having a moment!
 
SpottedCat said:
However:
A horse's passport must be carried each time it is transported. An inspector can also require that a passport be produced within three hours at any other time. (A summary of Section 20-23 from H&H).

So as long as you are a) certain that the horse will never need to be transported, including to the vets, and b) confident you can get to the loaner's yard within 3 hours at all times, then don't hand over the passport!
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Agree.

Sorry for getting legal (in my nature) but Article 3 of COMMISSION REGULATION (EC) No 504/2008 states that where the keeper has no ownership of the equine animal he shall act within the framework of this Regulation on behalf of and in agreement with the natural or legal person having the ownership of the equine animal (the owner).

So, as the owner has responsibilities to provide the passport, upon request from a relevant governing body, the loaner would be required to do the same as they step into the shoes of the owner. It only defines provision though and not the form it should be in so a copy of the passport, I assume, would suffice.
 
I don't really see the fuss about not handing them over - they don't prove ownership and I cannot imagine why you'd hand the horse/tack etc over to someone you didn't trust but not the passport....and if you trust them, why the issue in giving them the passport too?!

Anyway, mine went with the horse last year because BE will check passports at events (as will RC) so the loaner needed it as horse is a Novice eventer.

I just kept a scanned copy and had a decent contract.
 
I, personally, would photocopy it, write on the top that this horse is on loan, please call "your number" if there is a problem, and then get them to take THAT wherever she goes.

I know its not meant to be proof of ownership, but....
 
SpottedCat said:
I don't really see the fuss about not handing them over - they don't prove ownership and I cannot imagine why you'd hand the horse/tack etc over to someone you didn't trust but not the passport....and if you trust them, why the issue in giving them the passport too?!

Anyway, mine went with the horse last year because BE will check passports at events (as will RC) so the loaner needed it as horse is a Novice eventer.

I just kept a scanned copy and had a decent contract.
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Theres no fuss as to handing it over.....its just that this is the first time i have loaned out a horse and i was getting his stuff together and wasnt sure whether the owner had to keep the passport or whether the person loaning had to have it!
 
skychick said:
Theres no fuss as to handing it over.....its just that this is the first time i have loaned out a horse and i was getting his stuff together and wasnt sure whether the owner had to keep the passport or whether the person loaning had to have it!
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Was not aimed at you ;) More that there are a lot of people on here who won't hand over the passport and I don't understand it personally...
 
skychick said:
Eeeek mixed views on that one.

If you dont send it with the horse how can the vets make note of the vaccination records etc???
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You can send the passport to the vets at a later date to get the stamp & signature, that's not a problem, I've done it many times.
 
flamehead said:
I, personally, would photocopy it, write on the top that this horse is on loan, please call "your number" if there is a problem, and then get them to take THAT wherever she goes.

I know its not meant to be proof of ownership, but....
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iI WOULD KEEP ORIGINAL and make sure horse is chipped and freezemarked,sorry
 
Berkeley said:
Agree.

Sorry for getting legal (in my nature) but Article 3 of COMMISSION REGULATION (EC) No 504/2008 states that where the keeper has no ownership of the equine animal he shall act within the framework of this Regulation on behalf of and in agreement with the natural or legal person having the ownership of the equine animal (the owner).

So, as the owner has responsibilities to provide the passport, upon request from a relevant governing body, the loaner would be required to do the same as they step into the shoes of the owner. It only defines provision though and not the form it should be in so a copy of the passport, I assume, would suffice.
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What about if the owner presents the passport?

I kept the passports of both of the horses I loaned out. There was no way I was going to put my horse at risk for some lapse DEFRA regulation.
 
Interesting.....definately a majority that would keep the origional and send a photocopy.

To those above that had loaned your horses out and kept the passport....was your horse loaned out locally??
 
It's fairly simple to be honest.

The law states the passport must be with the primary carer of the horse. In this case, that is the loaner. It would be illegal for you to keep the passport from the loaner.

Whether you choose to abide by this law or not, of course is your own choice. But the black and white answer is yes, you do.

If you choose not to then bewarned - if your loanee knows their stuff well enough, you might find they kick up a fuss if you don't pass it onto them, especially if they are planning on competing the pony. In these days of VOSA clamp downs I wouldn't consider traveling a horse without a passport.

Also, please be aware the passport is no security at all. I ended up applying for a passport for a 15 year old pony, well after the 'all horses must be passported by' date, and not one person batted an eyelid or queried why this old pony suddenly needed a brand new passport.
 
I have my horse on loan and I have his passport...I believe its a legal requirement that the passport stays with the horse?! I know people have had bad experiences with loaning but there are plenty of fantastic loaners out there (blowing my own trumpet so to speak!) that can totally be trusted with official documents. I might take a copy if I was in your situation but no reason not to send it off with the horse.
 
I have a loan horse atm, and I have the horse's passport. I wouldn't have been happy to take the horse without it, as it's a legal requirement to keep the passport with the animal when travelling, and I wanted to compete the horse. :)
 
Lol panic not, im not trying to make loaners out to be dishonest.....i tried to have a horse on loan before i bought mine but there was nothing out there suitable so i know there are genuine loaners. It was just one of those moments where i wasnt sure. I knew the horse must have a passport that is available at all times, but just wasnt sure whether the owner had to keep it or the loaner.
I was going to give it to the loaner with the horse and his rugs, then i had a sudden though as to whether i was actually meant to keep it etc.
So i wanted to check so that i can put it in his suitcase as im not actually going to be there when he leaves :-( as the only time his loaner can collect him is when i am away so i needed to make sure.
 
skychick said:
Lol panic not, im not trying to make loaners out to be dishonest.....i tried to have a horse on loan before i bought mine but there was nothing out there suitable so i know there are genuine loaners. It was just one of those moments where i wasnt sure. I knew the horse must have a passport that is available at all times, but just wasnt sure whether the owner had to keep it or the loaner.
I was going to give it to the loaner with the horse and his rugs, then i had a sudden though as to whether i was actually meant to keep it etc.
So i wanted to check so that i can put it in his suitcase as im not actually going to be there when he leaves :-( as the only time his loaner can collect him is when i am away so i needed to make sure.
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Sorry, I didn't mean it that way...just wanted to reassure you that you could send it with him without worry! Good luck xx
 
well i had a heated debate with a police officer who owned horses, she didnt want to take a statement about a horse that was sold whilst in someone elses care, i explained i had given passport as it is a legal requirement, she said it was nonsence and that she had two horses out on loan and that she would never give the passport unless she was selling, however after contacting trading standards to pursue the claim civil they said i had done the right thing and i would have commited an offence if i had nt given up the passport ! so dnt think anyone seems to know whats the correct thing to do !
 
I sent mine with my mare, but i did ring up the provider to tell them that under no circumstance is she being sold so they have that on there system if someone trys to transfer ownership it will flag up.
 
I was told that the passport must be with the horse at all times. You can obviously keep it indoors but must be able to produce it within 3 hours. So taking it to shows etc would be advisable. I would worry though with giving a loaner the passport, but it is the law.:)
 
To be honest, if handing the passport over worries you that much, why on earth would you even consider handing your actual horse over???
 
Spudlet said:
To be honest, if handing the passport over worries you that much, why on earth would you even consider handing your actual horse over???
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Good point :) But I guess there are some scam artists, that build up trust with people only to rip them off.
 
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