Real pasture appreciation society

[lazybee]

After reading Leviathan's post on the 'Identify this plant thread. I was pleased to see I'm not the only one who thinks differently


Leviathan's post
Personally speaking what ever it is I would not like it in my fields .

All I want is grasses, anything else the weed killer controls or is there to control it .

The way I look at it is all the space weeds like this take up are.

a, valuable area grass should be
b, could be potentially harmful
c, makes the filed look unkempt / or eye sore.


I like to look at a grass covered weed free, poo free fields.




I personally think this is the main problem with most horses today especially poor hooves/laminitis and why people have to feed a thousand and one feeds and supplements. I don't feed mine anything at all. They eat a bit here, a bit there, they munch at the hedges, eat fennel, mint, blackberries nettles, leaves and new shoots from trees and anything they fancy. They are free to roam about and find what they want.
All mine get in the winter is hay cut from the same pasture. They do very well and never lose condition. All but two are shoeless (fronts only) Promoting a mono-culture of pure grass is probably good for a dairy herd but certainly not horses. Surely it's all about a balanced diet just as it is with us. Thoughts ??

What's on the menu today????

 

[dilbert]

My three live out 24/7 on a track around almost four acres. They are currently strip grazing onto knee high grasses of many different kinds judging by the colours and different shaped grasses! They love hawthorn, rose hip, elderberry, blackthorn, thistles, nettles, dandelions, clivers that grow around the field and I've scattered various random wild flower type seeds about to see if anything else tasty pops up!

 

[Kaylum]

Have been posting about this on a lot of lami threads that people spend a fortune on hard feed but nothing on getting their pasture right. They have rye grass in their fields which is not correct for horse grazing as its too rich.

Vits and mins are not needed if the right meadow plants are there and grow around hedgerows. Don't overgraze and keep poo picking.

 

[Maesfen]

Like so many things in this country now, the horse world has gone into killing off all the friendly bacteria and goodness you get from other grasses and plants. It hasn't helped that so many livery yards are now on ex farms who used to grow grass for their livelihood which was beef or dairy herds who needed the best and cleanest of grasses to convert their end product and that is totally unsuitable for horses. You very rarely see old turf nowadays which is a great shame as those grazing that type invariably do well with little intervention from us and have less problems than those on the billiard greens.
We live on a grazing common that's only grazed in the summer; the one farmer uses it straight after turning out after winter when they all look a bit down, drawn and jaded from a winter diet of corn and silage; within a few weeks of being on the common they're blooming, putting weight on and looking in great health without any effort on the farmer's part! No fertilizer has ever been used on the common and it's certainly not rolled or harrowed at all, it is completely as nature intended. We have over 112 different plants on it (university study) and it's one of the most diverse that has ever been tested. I wish I could turn my horses onto it.
Our land is old dairy, not been used for cattle for nearly 30 years but only now are we getting to the stage where it's leeched out and about right for horses.

 

[lazybee]

This is how I maintain the fields:
I take them off the hay fields at the end of February. Then after the hay is cut I open up the whole lot and let them go where they want. It's surprising how much ground they cover in the course of a day. I'm lucky to have river banks and flood plain as well as higher drier soil at the top. They get hundreds of different plants (free supplements) . The only draw back is finding them when we want to take them out, it can be quite a hike if they go through the ford (especially if I forget my wellies ) . I section of bits for muck spreading (composted horse muck) when certain areas get over grazed.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I had the opportunity to visit Kirtlington Stud this week and listened with great interest to the owner talking about the needs of growing racehorses.

The stud is on limestone brash and the soil is tested regularly to ensure the blue blooded youngstock are getting what they need.

It was very interesting even though I struggled to understand it fully, and the property is simply stunning, but although the pasture all 350 odd acres of it looked amazing there were no herbs, weeds etc, non of the hedges could be reached by the stock. I do of course, realise why the beautiful See the Stars filly is not allowed to stuff her face in the hedge.

Had this thread not caught my eye I don't think I would have given what I saw at Kirtlington another thought, but horses do need an assortment of grazing to pick at. I have a weanling, some of you will have read about Ted, he went out to old pasture this morning, plenty of weeds since all the rain ! his favourite pick this morning was the wilted nettles the OH strimmed down yesterday. I wonder if that Sea the Stars weanling would like some ?

 

[Kaylum]

The BHS even teach meadow management basics in their exams so I don't know why people seem to overlook this part of horse care which can prevent so many horses suffering.

 

[Rowreach]

The BHS even teach meadow management basics in their exams so I don't know why people seem to overlook this part of horse care which can prevent so many horses suffering.

I gave a group of my students two haylage samples to look at. One was the haylage fed to the college horses, bought from a local farmer whose fields look like pure green velvet. The other was haylage I made on my own farm, off old meadow.

Mine was full of interesting things, smelled lovely, and I know how well my horses do on it (I hardly feed any hard feed at all, and no supplements).

The other sample was dry, almost odourless, and made up of one type of grass.

Which do you think the students preferred?

 

[Capriole]

I am so far from agreeing with Leviathan's quote on this.

I thought the days of 'mono-species grassland' type thinking had been left behind a while ago. My horses are on old meadow, and there is a huge variety of plants which are beneficial to their wellbeing, the last thing Im going to do is weedkill and turn it into a green desert.

 

[Dry Rot]

While I also follow the "encourage the native grasses" doctrine I cannot accept that having a variety of species will correct mineral imbalance. If some minerals are lacking in the soil, they are hardly likely to be in the plant life that grows on it -- hence "indicator species" which, if you know about such things, will tell you what type of soil you have, whether it requires drainage, lime or minerals, or whether something else that is lacking.

It is no accident that the famous racehorse breeding areas are where they are!

 

[PennyJ]

All is welcome in my fields apart from ragwort, docks and nettles. The buttercups are annoying, but I hope that over time as the work I put in starts to take more and more effect they will decrease. My lot all look shiny and wonderful on this grass and beautiful dry haylage (meadow grass mainly) grown by my beef farmer neighbour. They are also allowed to eat the hedges if they want (hawthorn mainly) and go mad for the blackberries when they are out. Said farmer has been wonderfully helpful to me in getting my grazing back on track.

I have been in these fields for a year now and the difference a bit of "management" and not overgrazing makes is incredible. This lousy weather has also been good for me. I am weeding like crazy at the moment (by hand) as my major mission for this year is to really get on top of the docks. Very few nettles this year compared to last

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

all I know is that the rather greenish looking hay I make every year the sheep go mad for, and they wont touch the mono culture stuff I buy in.....

Lots of clover, wild pansies, vetches, trefoils, bedstraw, toadflax and masses and masses of timothy.

cant blame them really!

 

[Oberon]

My horses have been on the same fields for many years now.

When the opportunity arises - they love to browse the hedgerows on the verges when out hacking. Also on the paths to their fields - they like to pick at the areas that aren't ever grazed and so have a mixture of different grasses and plants.

My horses aren't greedy or ill mannered - but they will risk getting a telling off and push their luck to dive for said areas.

We know that horses in the wild will travel for miles to find what they need - they will walk past nearby greenery for what they want.

The Cow Parsley season is coming to an end now. They have been in flower for a month or so and the horses absolutely loved them.

I question that when horses (who have an excellent sense of smell) try to snatch at stuff on a hack etc - they've smelt something they're missing and they are just trying to vary their diet

On that basis I think the use of daisy reins should be banned and we should apologise to all those riding school ponies out there who have been smacked in the past

 

[Mike007]

all I know is that the rather greenish looking hay I make every year the sheep go mad for, and they wont touch the mono culture stuff I buy in.....

Lots of clover, wild pansies, vetches, trefoils, bedstraw, toadflax and masses and masses of timothy.

cant blame them really!

And sheep are supposed to be stupid

 

[Enfys]

My horses have been on the same fields for many years now.

When the opportunity arises - they love to browse the hedgerows on the verges when out hacking. Also on the paths to their fields - they like to pick at the areas that aren't ever grazed and so have a mixture of different grasses and plants.

My horses aren't greedy or ill mannered - but they will risk getting a telling off and push their luck to dive for said areas.

We know that horses in the wild will travel for miles to find what they need - they will walk past nearby greenery for what they want.

The Cow Parsley season is coming to an end now. They have been in flower for a month or so and the horses absolutely loved them.

I question that when horses (who have an excellent sense of smell) try to snatch at stuff on a hack etc - they've smelt something they're missing and they are just trying to vary their diet

On that basis I think the use of daisy reins should be banned and we should apologise to all those riding school ponies out there who have been smacked in the past

Oberon, How right you are.
We don't get cow parsley here but now you mention it I can smell it in my mind (if that is possible) I have been riding for 40 years and when I was about 10 a very wise horsewoman told us to take our ponies out everyday, just bareback in a halter eek and let them browse the hedgerows. We used to pick sackfuls of cowparsley for them. Sometimes the simple wisdom of letting ponies take things into their own 'hands' is forgotten nowadays when everyone is so worried about getting it 'right'

We have just bought in a couple of acres worth of hay from an old meadow in the middle of our forest, sure there are some weeds that the horses will leave, and any hay merchant would turn their nose up at it,, but given a choice of my bought in big bale Timothy/alfa and our meadow hay the horses go for the rough stuff everytime.

With regards to those pristine green paddocks and the rougher ones with herbage I can understand quite why some people prefer the first. Aesthetics first, flat, green and clean, fenced with post and rail sure it looks pretty, and safety secondly, the boring square expanse is no doubt safer for valuable performance horses that you simply cannot risk injuring or marking themselves.

I simply can't imagine some people turning their horses out in some of my pastures (I have boring, flat ones too sadly) especially the one where the foals live for the first summer and winter.

It is an old overgrown half mile exercise track with pastures, ponds (that flood in spring and fall, freeze solid enough to drive a tractor over, and skate on in winter and it dries up in summer ), pine woods, oak woods, fallen trees, set aside, willow woods, boggy bits (complete with huge resident with snapping turtles) weeds, you name it, but those foals come out of there sure footed and sound, a few scratches perhaps but what the heck, they learn what ice is, how to tip toe when the ground is rutted and frozen, and they can all pop a log too, the only thing my horses don't experience is a hill! We have none

and in summer those same willows are like this:

Browsing for wild grapes

Ice is NO hassle, the horses figure it out for themselves:

 

[hairycob]

That looks like horsey heaven!
I know of a place in Namibia where they breed endurance horses. The pregnant mares are turned out in the bush & just brought in for foaling. Once they have foaled & it is clear everything is ok they are turned out in the bush again & the youngsters come in at about 18 months/2 years to be handled. The resulting riding horses are the most sure footed & bombproof rides I have ever come across.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I am so far from agreeing with Leviathan's quote on this.

I thought the days of 'mono-species grassland' type thinking had been left behind a while ago. My horses are on old meadow, and there is a huge variety of plants which are beneficial to their wellbeing, the last thing Im going to do is weedkill and turn it into a green desert.

So what you want your fields covered in Dock leaves - bind weed - ragwort buttercups . Sure glad my horses are not in your fields .

You have taken what I said out of context.

Leviathan's post
Personally speaking what ever it is I would not like it in my fields .

All I want is grasses, anything else the weed killer controls or is there to control it .

The way I look at it is all the space weeds like this take up are.

a, valuable area grass should be
b, could be potentially harmful
c, makes the filed look unkempt / or eye sore.


I like to look at a grass covered weed free, poo free fields.

When I said Grasses I meant all types of grasses plants clover etc , I did not say anything to do with hedgerows bushes brambles etc .

To me a field covered it poo
dock leaves
nettles etc (even tho horses like them) I don't like them in the center of the fields not the edges.
buttercups is a sign that fields are not cared for

The mind boggles as to why you are far from from agreeing that:


Its a FACT that very large areas of nettles DO take up grazing space
Do make a field an eyesore IMO
certain plants ARE potentially harmful

if you only have a 2 acre field and one acre is wall to wall nettles. Then weeds are taking up valuable space simples.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I am so far from agreeing with Leviathan's quote on this.

I thought the days of 'mono-species grassland' type thinking had been left behind a while ago. My horses are on old meadow, and there is a huge variety of plants which are beneficial to their wellbeing, the last thing Im going to do is weedkill and turn it into a green desert.

FYI.

Our fields have been voted top grazing in our area. The fields have been managed for over 30 years by the same land management guy.
To me weeds are:
Ragwort
Docks
bind weed
nettles

to name but a few. I don't mind nettles round the edge.
Horses rarely eat nettles when they are growing.



Horse is more often than not just going to graze in the remainder area. Thus my point they are taking up grazing area Simples

Our horses do eat leaves of trees- eat out the hedgerows etc that I am not debating about.

 

[stencilface]

I am happy for nettles and thistles to be there in the field, the horses do like them and eat them, my horse also has a worrying addiction for cleavers, who knows eh - but as long as they don't develop into huge stands.

One area of our field has a lot of buttercups, yes this may take up grazing land, but they are perfectly fat (too fat atm in fact, are being moved today ) and I wouldn't want them on anything richer - I would prefer a larger field to wander around that they have to work more out to get the forage (although I understand this isn't available for many people)

To do a short list of plants in their fields, thistles (creeping and spear) nettles, birds foot trefoil, buttercups, selfheal, speedwell, chickweed, knotgrass (a type of dock), docks, himalayan balsam (dratted stuff, unkillable ), yorkshire fog, cocksfoot, fescues, butterbur, dandelions, daisies, sweet vernal grass, some meadow grasses, gorse, elder, willow, hazel, hawthorn, blackthorn, ash (they LOVE the ash), and holly. There is a sneaky oak tree at the bottom which is fenced off every year much to my horses disgust, I don't think there's anything he won't eat! Probably many others, but I've not done a proper survey (which I should given I do it for a job )

They have a spring in the middle of the field too, that opens into a marshy area, I have no idea what is in that (should get it tested) but they loved drinking from the puddles

 

[siennamum]

My horses love:
Cow parsley (must be like equine ambrosia)
Bindweed - they will pick it out of the nettles very delicately & they really savour it
Thistles - especialy the flowers in the autumn
Neetles, they will clear a nettle patch in minutes in the autumn, but at the moment are loving the flowers & non stingers
rosehips & wild rose - at the moment the fresh growth is delicious apparently
burdock, love the leaves at all times, (I hate the burrs in the autumn) although they will make their noses sore

The list goes on, but I could think of nothing worse than a diet with only one thing in it!!

Here are some piictures of my fields to illustrate:
In the Autumn:

This morning, everyone is asleep:

The only thing I am cursing this year is the buttercups, we've never had them before.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Sienna Our horses also love the thistles (yellow flower) also cow parsley
Nettles I get the Gardner to strim them but leave them in the field to dry then they eat them.

We have many types of bushes and shrubs round our fields. One of there favourite things is climb on our cross country bank and reach up into the trees like giraffes.

What you get in the field depends allot on surrounding pasture and land.
Down south you get allot of gorse etc like New Forest.

 

[siennamum]

I am spoilt as I have lots of land (not my own sadly) I have acres which I have shut the gate on and am thinking may get grazed one day, they may not!. In the meantime I have the big boys herd (5 or 6 horses) on the main field which is approx 7 acres. It can be used year round, and is never poo picked, just topped - which we just did. The fatties (girls mainly) are on a couple of starvation paddocks, a couple of acres each, which do get poo picked and so look a lot neater, I do like not having to bother too much with field maintenance tho - and can only do so because we have plenty of land.

We get docks which I ignore and do go and pull the ragwort, which are infrequent, I may spray one of my fields this year as we have a persistent patch which keeps coming in profusion, field hasn't been used since last Summer & is my 2nd large field. I am also trying to get some sheep, I think they would be great to keep on top of some of the less desirable weeds and will help with the worms.

 

[Capriole]

FYI.

Our fields have been voted top grazing in our area. The fields have been managed for over 30 years by the same land management guy.
To me weeds are:
Ragwort
Docks
bind weed
nettles

to name but a few. I don't mind nettles round the edge.
Horses rarely eat nettles when they are growing.



Horse is more often than not just going to graze in the remainder area. Thus my point they are taking up grazing area Simples

Our horses do eat leaves of trees- eat out the hedgerows etc that I am not debating about.

Whats with the sarcastic emoticon and the FYI??

Bit rude when I only dared to disagree with you isnt it?
I dont care whats on your land or how you manage it, but please have a few manners and learn to discuss things like an adult instead of the sarcasm please.

 

[lazybee]

So what you want your fields covered in Dock leaves - bind weed - ragwort buttercups . Sure glad my horses are not in your fields .

You have taken what I said out of context.






When I said Grasses I meant all types of grasses plants clover etc , I did not say anything to do with hedgerows bushes brambles etc .

To me a field covered it poo
dock leaves
nettles etc (even tho horses like them) I don't like them in the center of the fields not the edges.
buttercups is a sign that fields are not cared for

The mind boggles as to why you are far from from agreeing that:


Its a FACT that very large areas of nettles DO take up grazing space
Do make a field an eyesore IMO
certain plants ARE potentially harmful

if you only have a 2 acre field and one acre is wall to wall nettles. Then weeds are taking up valuable space simples.

I can hear a noise......I think it's a tune being changed or may be it's furious back pedaling

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I can hear a noise......I think it's a tune being changed or may be it's furious back pedaling

yawn duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no I dont need to back pedal LAZYBEE I DO NOT need to change My tune either.


I have looked after these field the same way for 25 years with the same far management guy . I don't have to list what plants- grasses shrubs or trees around my fields or in therm.

I choose to use the term *grasses* to describe my pasture and all living plants in it , only a small minority chose to read this as nothing else can grow. The amount of pm's I have received from others saying they know what I mean by grasses just shows that many people knew I included other living edible plants. I am guided by the guy who has done these fields the WHOLE time we have lived here AND about 20 years before so I think in fact I know its been well managed.

So again I will not justify my self to a few members who choose to make a big thing out of one of MY terms for MY fields thankyou.

 

[Capriole]

The mind boggles as to why you are far from from agreeing that:

Yes Im sure it does. The fact remains you seem to be having an attack of sarcasm and rolly eyes because I disagreed with your original statement in the opening post.
Theres really no need to be all defensive and aggressive about it. You manage your fields as you see fit and I will continue to manage my fields as I see fit. Simples eh?

Sure glad my horses are not in your fields .
.

Oh and no need to worry, that would never happen, I dont take liveries.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

because I disagreed with your original statement in the opening post.


.

That is because you assumed my term of grasses comment only meant grasses!



I can't spend all day on the computer explain everything in every minor detail.

My terms I use in my post are always the subject of ridicule and discussion.
I have explained to TFC and He is aware of it.

Listing all the grasses shrubs plants etc which need to be in a field to maintain horses diet so I choose to list them under the term *grasses* I was not aware I had to explain what I include in this. However if someone had asked what you mean I would have explained.. But no people jump to wrong conclusion with a few sarky comments.


I know in future to only type a reply when I have a few hours to write down every small detail.

 

[Capriole]

Leviathan, the only person I can see being sarcastic on this thread is you.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Leviathan, the only person I can see being sarcastic on this thread is you.

I think this classes as sarcastic uncalled for comment

I can hear a noise......I think it's a tune being changed or may be it's furious back pedaling

where I sand by my explanation for my terms grasses I mean many within my pasture which My pasture guy says I should leave within the fields which I include in the term grasses



my sarcastic comment was in relation to a similar thread on pasture which I am replying to too.

I think my multi skills are slipping.

I need to stick to one thread at a time.

 

[Capriole]

I think this classes as sarcastic uncalled for comment

.

No, that wasn't sarcasm. It was an observation. A non sarcastic observation. Really, you need to chill out. just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt mean you have to go all nuclear on a thread.