Really Bad Arthritis - What would you do??!

DannyBoy22

DannyBoy22

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Hi all,

I took my beautiful old boy DannyBoy, turned 22 this month, to the vets yesterday and it's been decided that following a nasty fall a few weeks ago he needs to be retired permanently. :(

Tests showed that he has got arthritis in all 4 legs and his back which will have been developing for sometime but has been hidden by him and his eagerness to continue until the fall has made it rear it's ugly head. The vet has said considering how bad it is and how much pain and discomfort he is in she would expect him to be a lot lamer and not really wanting to move.

He has also developed scurvy which she has put down to him being generally run down and lacking vitamin E, the vet is slightly concerned that he hasn't put on any weight staying at 475kg (he's a big built 15.1HH Sectioned D Welsh Cob) despite the new summer grazing and is pretty convinced from cuttings out of his ear that he has come from a travellers community at some point which would obviously mean a lot of trotting etc on roads which won't have helped his legs and also thinks he might be slightly older than we think despite him having very good teeth even for 22. I can only trace his history back as far as 10 -12 years ago.

For now she has said if he is happy plodding in the field with his sister and maybe occasionally having 15-20min no more walks in hand (to help his mental state not physical because he can't be cured) then we will try him on bute (1 and half daily) for a month with vegetable oil and a supplement containing vitamin E and others which includes a muscle anti-oxident in his feed to see if we can give him a bit of a boost and make him comfortable, if not then she said we will need to think about having him PTS or if we can make him comfortable pump him full of bute for the rest of his life.

His liver and kidneys have been tested and they are fine.

He was put on bute, at the same dose, for 2 weeks after the fall and to be honest we didn't see a difference.

What would you do? Is it fair to put him through all this as he has worked so hard all his life? Won't the bute kill him anyway? I'm such a mess I can't think straight. He couldn't do a simple flexion test and go into walk yesterday! :(

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 
Put him through what? I hardly think you would be torturing him by retiring him in the field and feeding him a bute or two. How does he seem when he is just plodding around and grazing in the field?

eta: I couldn't do a flexion test and walk away not lame either, but I am in no pain at all when I am walking or running.
 
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awww so sorry

why not give him a month and see how he goes on the bute, also gives you chance to have a good think and observe his quality of life.

Is always hard to know when its time to say goodbye xx
 
He seems ok at the moment just walking around the field but he is in a lot of pain and really does struggle getting up and down. His eyes are bright but his coat has gone very dull and his skin is not great at all. The other problem i've got is that he is currently separated from the others with his sister because the others tend to pick on him and kick him but he can't be separated forever as the yard owner will want the field rested as it is the winter grazing field.

Sorry, hadn't seen the last bit - the vet said she had never seen a horse not be able to go from a flexion test into a walk. Danny couldn't walk at all, he very almost fell over.
 
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The horse sounds as if it's declining right before your eyes.

And I certainly wouldn't be waiting too long before making some sort of decision on him.
 
Arthritis is very painful, unfortunately. Horses live a long time on Bute, and get on OK, but it sounds as though it isn't having much effect. Agree with Splashjack, to try and get the doseage right and then re-assess after a month. As you say, he could be older than you "know."

Let him enjoy the summer sunshine for now, while you see if you can manage the condition.
If not, then PTS is maybe the best option.
 
If he is fine in himself, which it does sound like he is, then give him a chance . If you follow the vets recommendations and still feel that it isnt right in a month then I know you will make the right decision. Give him and you a little bit of time. It doesnt sound like he is suffering at the moment . I hope he improves
 
maree t said:
If he is fine in himself, which it does sound like he is, then give him a chance .
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he is in a lot of pain and really does struggle getting up and down. His eyes are bright but his coat has gone very dull and his skin is not great at all.
 
That's sad news but it seems like he's had a hard life which has caught up with him now, sadly for you.

I know what I would do but I'm not you and don't know how realistic you are or how desperate you are to keep him going. There are many on here which will tell you arthritis is not the end of the world and come out with all manner of potions which might help but in this case I do believe that his age and his former life are stacked heavily against him plus the fact that in a normal summer (this might be one yet for all we know!) the ground gets baked and harder which will be no use to his joints at all let alone a damp and cold winter. If you couldn't see any difference in him when on 2 bute a day that would ring alarm bells for me too.

For me, it's always about quality of life rather than length of life at all costs; I find that very unethical I'm afraid as though they say they are doing all they can, why would you prolong suffering for someone you love so much?

ETA: seeing you say he has trouble getting up and down would be it for me as he will feel incredibly vulnerable which won't help him at all. I would be on the phone to the kennels/vet today I'm afraid, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, it sounds like you've had a good time with your boy; it's always very hard.
 
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I agree give him a bit of time. His skin and coat would probably benefit from a good balancer and some micronized linseed. Supplement his grazing with some good haylage to help him put on weight.

Arthritis is not the same in all horses. It has a painful 'active stage' where the arthritis causes changes and more pain, but sometimes this is temporary and the condition settles down (some joints such as hocks) can fuse and become pain free. Others become more painful as the disease progresses. Some can be helped a lot by bute and other medicines, others cannot.

I would try all the things suggested above for a couple of months, then if there is no change, and if he is not enjoying life, then PTS. So sorry, it must have been a shock to you.
 
similar thing happened to my gelding last year.
He suddenly went down hill and ages.
Vets said retire and keep comfortable.

He worsened quickly and the bad weather didn't help.
He was on 4bute a day.
Didn't like being out in the rain but
got stiff in.
He wasn't happy and I was him put down.
I had to fight the insurance company who at the start said he didn't meet the beva guideline.
But after six months they paid up.
It wasn't about the money, it was about agreeing that I did the right thing.
The money paid off his vet bill and cremation.
 
His fall obviously shook him up all over and it is taking a time to settle down again.

In your shoes I would be using Bute/Danilon as required (up to 3 a day in the short term) to stabilise him then reducing to whatever was needed to keep him comfortable. You might get away with 1 every other day, certainly help the purse strings). Gentle pootling about the field and keeping things moving will help the arthritis. At 22 I would be happy to use danilon. Obviously if his joints are permanently inflamed and he can't get any relief I would call it a day.

I had extremely good results feeding Thunderbrook base mix, in terms of weight gain and a significant improvement in mobility (this was in a 30+ horse). Think it was the enhanced omega-3 polyunsaturates that did it. I would def. recommend either linseed (micronised) or the Thunderbrook.

If he is losing his position in the herd due to age then it is time to look at changing his companions I'm afraid. Your yard owner might be able to offer an alternative in these circumstances. I hate to see old horses dropping through the pecking order, particularly the lead horses.

In general I think horses are picking up slower than usual this year as the grass (in some areas) was coming from so far back.

I hope he gets comfy very quickly :)
 
Maesfen said:
That's sad news but it seems like he's had a hard life which has caught up with him now, sadly for you.

I know what I would do but I'm not you and don't know how realistic you are or how desperate you are to keep him going. There are many on here which will tell you arthritis is not the end of the world and come out with all manner of potions which might help but in this case I do believe that his age and his former life are stacked heavily against him plus the fact that in a normal summer (this might be one yet for all we know!) the ground gets baked and harder which will be no use to his joints at all let alone a damp and cold winter. If you couldn't see any difference in him when on 2 bute a day that would ring alarm bells for me too.

For me, it's always about quality of life rather than length of life at all costs; I find that very unethical I'm afraid as though they say they are doing all they can, why would you prolong suffering for someone you love so much?

ETA: seeing you say he has trouble getting up and down would be it for me as he will feel incredibly vulnerable which won't help him at all. I would be on the phone to the kennels/vet today I'm afraid, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, it sounds like you've had a good time with your boy; it's always very hard.
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Exactly what I thought last year so I had my old girl PTS. Better a day too early...
 
I can tell you what I did - my horse was 26yo and I had had him for 24 years. He was retired at 24 because of arthritis, and was on danilon. One morning I watched him struggling to get up, it was December but he was sweating, and was very distressed. I rang the vet straight away, but when I went out to bring him him he was up and I couldn't catch him! I was worried about him getting cast in his stable, so he was turned out at night, and I was also worried about him lying down during the night and maybe struggling to rise until I found him in the morning. About 6 weeks later he was down again and struggling to get up. I called the vet and we made the decision there and then. He owed me nothing and didn't deserve to be in discomfort, let alone pain, so he was peacefully pts there and then.
I was devastated and worried if I had made the right decision for him (although I knew I had) until I developed arthritis myself. Knowing how painful this condition is put any doubts I had to rest. Nobody can imagine how painful it is unless they have it themselves. My quality of life is good, because I am able to read, have tv, radio, etc., and have aids to help me move around. I can't imagine how miserable my horse would have been last winter, and am now so pleased I did what I did when I did - it was totally the best thing I could have done for him, and I have no regrets. (I still miss him, tho).
Sorry for the long post
 
I had got up to three bute a day but that was still not keeping my lovely girl comfortable when I decided to call it a day and bring in the knackerman last Autumn.

A month to see if you can turn the situation around seems fair unless you think it is already time to make the final call. I'm not a great fan of horses as field ornaments myself, but it is very much a personal decision for the owner and depends on how well a previously active horse would cope with retirement.

So to answer your question: if it was my horse, I would be thinking about pts now if his pain can't be controlled quickly; and in the next few months either way. However only you can decide what's right for you and him.
 
When they are in constant pain then I think it is fair to let them go.

We recently had a horse go down and unable to get up, he was laid in his own muck for a few hours and when we did get him to his feet he had an enormous wee poor old lad. He must have felt very vulnerable. :( The owner had him pts the next day, he went with his head in a bucket, the sun on his back and it wasn't a minute too late imo.

Personally I'd do it sooner rather than later, I often find that prolonging it is for the sake of the owner rather than the horse.
 
I didn't wait until my arthritic mare was struggling to get up. She was a girl who very much had her pride and I had promised her years before that I owe'd her her dignity and would never let her suffer.

She had been upped to 2 danilons plus supplements a day for about a year or so before and was fine on that then she went downhill and was obviously lame in walk on those painkillers and she started to look miserable and that was when I made the call. I am in no doubt that I made the right decision as hard as it was and no matter how much I miss her.

I couldn't have lived with myself if I had gone down one day and found her unable to get up. I do believe better a month too early than a day too late.
 
Both of you really have my sympathy, you're in a really bad place right now and sadly I don't think there is an easy answer.

For me, I would give him the month, and see how he goes. My oldie (35) has arthritis, fortunately we keep him comfy on one bute every other day and he can get up and down just fine. But, it was quite painful getting to that point where we worked out the correct doseage for him. He got down in the field and twice in the stable and couldn't get up again. Very worrying indeed and the vet had to be called once to help him up before we got the dosage sorted. Whilst we were doing so he was very wary of having a sit down and was definitely a bit down in the dumps. All of this happened about 3 years ago, and he is now doing OK in a fairly quiet way - but he is well in himself and that is what matters.

If there are no improvements, however slight, after a month - he may well have lost confidence in his own abilities - then you may have to face the one time that we all dread. But you will know that you gave him a fighting chance and that at least should be some comfort if the time comes sooner than you would have liked.
 
How quickly would you expect to see improvement (if there was to be) on 1 and a half bute per day?

He is fed D&H sixteen plus which has glucosamine, linseed, MSM etc in it, with basic chaff, formula 4 feet & devils claw.

He hasn't lost his order in the herd, he never fought his way to the top. He's such a gentle giant and wouldn't hurt a fly, he's just always allowed the crap he gets and got out of the way.

I think I know in my heart what I need to do, oh this is so hard, I'm crying typing this blinking message! He got me through such a horrible place in my life and now i just wish i could do the same for him. :(

He doesn't struggle to the point where he's panting, sweating and in distress, you can just tell he's got to think about it. He goes down slowly, once down he can roll easily, and then he sort of sits on his hind quarters with his fronts out in front, thinks about it for a few seconds and then rocks a little and pulls him self up with a bit of a jump.
 
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I would give him the bute for one last summer and say good bye before winter sets in again, i feel your pain i have been here to x
 
I know exactly what you are going through. I had my 22 year old gelding PTS on Tuesday, it was a very hard decision as he had been with me for just over 10 years and retired nicely for 3 years. I made the decision as he had arthritis in his back end, and the way that he walked worried me. He also wasn't putting any condition on at all, considering all of the other horses on the yard were looking 'well'.

I was worried that he would be in a world of pain if he got down and couldn't get back up again. He was on one bute a day.
We let him go peacefully with the sun on his back, and a belly full of grass.

Only you will know what to do, take time to think about things, and in the mean time I would note down some emergency numbers should heaven forbid, that this will be taken out of your hands.

((Hugs)) xx
 
I really feel for you OP, it is always very hard when you care so much for them. I am a firm believer in better a month too soon than a day too late.

Maybe talk to the vet and see if you can up his bute to make him pain free for a little while - over years and years lots of bute can effect the liver but I suspect that sort of time frame won't be the issue here.
 
If you can't control the pain with medication to a level when he's getting up and down without difficulty ( perhaps not as easy as a four year can but not a struggle ) I would call it a day .
It's an awful time when it gets to this stage .
 
Proud Wexford Hero said:
I know exactly what you are going through. I had my 22 year old gelding PTS on Tuesday, it was a very hard decision as he had been with me for just over 10 years and retired nicely for 3 years. I made the decision as he had arthritis in his back end, and the way that he walked worried me. He also wasn't putting any condition on at all, considering all of the other horses on the yard were looking 'well'.

I was worried that he would be in a world of pain if he got down and couldn't get back up again. He was on one bute a day.
We let him go peacefully with the sun on his back, and a belly full of grass.

Only you will know what to do, take time to think about things, and in the mean time I would note down some emergency numbers should heaven forbid, that this will be taken out of your hands.

((Hugs)) xx
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I'm so sorry to hear this. I can't even bare to think what this is going to be like. He's my baby. I lost a child and he replaced it. I can't bare it. It's all happened so quickly. xx
 
DannyBoy22 said:
How quickly would you expect to see improvement (if there was to be) on 1 and a half bute per day?
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My boy is in his final month now. He was on one Danilon a day and then couldn't get up in the field over the May Bank Holiday weekend. Vet came and increased Danilon to two per day and within 48 hours of starting the increased dose he rolled in the field and got up unaided. I was all over the place last week, but now I am slightly more together and am starting to plan for the final deed.

If your boy has not improved on 1.5 bute per day for two weeks, then you need to ask the vet again and see if a further increase is needed to keep him comfortable.

Hugs, because I know exactly how you feel :(
 
OP I have been through this too and it's horrendous there's no point saying otherwise but you know your boy best and as the others say better a day too early than late. Can you give him a few weeks and, it sounds silly, but both you and somebody objective (YO?) diarise how he is everyday, to get a clear picture of what he's like over a given time? Hugs to you and your boy
 
DB it's very sad , I am about in the same place with my old dog ATM the thing is you have to bare it it's the price you pay for having them.
There are other pain relief options for horses such as Metacam that might help better speak to the vet again.
 
Big hugs OP - you know that whatever you decide to do it will be hard, but you definitely have the support of us all on here. We might not be able to help you in person, but we're here in spirit - for you and your boy.
 
DannyBoy22 said:
I think I know in my heart what I need to do, oh this is so hard, I'm crying typing this blinking message! He got me through such a horrible place in my life and now i just wish i could do the same for him. :(
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You are doing that for him though aren't you? You've given him pain relief and supplements, and when that doesn't work you can give him the gift of taking away the pain.

I realise in my previous post I said that it wasn't a minute too late for my neighbours horse; I meant to say too soon - it is far better if you feel in your heart that euthanasia is the best or only option that you do it before the horse gets to the point it is down and traumatised.

The BHS have a service called friends at the end who will discuss options and help you to make a decision which might be useful.

It is a time we all dread, but a time we all have to face as responsible horse owners who love our horses. xx
 
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