Really need a calmer that works! Help please?

be positive said:
Most posters are assuming it is due to diet/ something unbalanced that can be fixed by changing her diet but her behaviour is consistent in that it is worse alone or in front and the OP "just carries on" in response, it sounds far more like a schooling and confidence issue that needs a different approach to how she is ridden if it is ever going to change.

Any horse I have had in that is sharp and spooky benefits from the rider doing more and taking control, they learn to wait and listen, leg yield, flex, go in straight lines 99% of the time, so any spooks can be contained most of the time, the less they spook or overreact the better they become as their confidence grows, they learn to slow down and look at something new and take things in rather than rushing past sideways, it takes time, a patient rider who will observe the horse while riding and be prepared to walk more than trot or canter until the horse is less reactive and one that really appreciates riding a relaxed well mannered horse, something that is better appreciated once you have that horse!
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I never let her have control, I don't let her go even if she wants to and when I say she prefers being in front, I mean she gets really wound up behind others who are generally a lot slower than her so when we go out together, we are normally up in front. We do a lot of schooling while hacking, even at walk she does dramatic spooks for no reason. I would understand if something was clearly spookworthy but I genuinely can never see anything that she needed to spook like that at.
Please can I have some suggestions on what I can do when it happens?
 
I had a friend that used nupafeed calmer. Apparently horse could be a lunatic but I never seen her like that. Not sure if she just exaggerated or whether the calmer actually worked!
 
Ellietotz said:
I never let her have control, I don't let her go even if she wants to and when I say she prefers being in front, I mean she gets really wound up behind others who are generally a lot slower than her so when we go out together, we are normally up in front. We do a lot of schooling while hacking, even at walk she does dramatic spooks for no reason. I would understand if something was clearly spookworthy but I genuinely can never see anything that she needed to spook like that at. Even in a plain green grass field with absolutely nothing in sight, she would still find something to dart away at.
Please can I have some suggestions on what I can do when it happens?
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Gloi said:
OP wrote:
"I like her being forward going, I don't want her to calm down in that sense, just want to stop her spooking at imaginary objects so dramatically. I'm not nervous on her in the slightest, she would do it with anyone. Heading home isn't as bad as she is focusing on that but she still does it. She wants to go forward and she wants to be in front, she loves having a burn so she is confident in that way."

I agree with BP here. I think you need to get away from this way of thinking for a while and both of you chill out and do lots of slow miles for a while. Try and change her mindset.
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What if she does it at walk? I can stop and turn her around to look at whatever it was she saw but she wouldn't see it either the second time round. When there is actually something to be scared of, she does have a look and move around it in which case I make her go and look again to reassure her it's okay, this time she still sees it's there as it's normally quite obvious what it was, like a field of sheep or a tree root. Red signs and carrier bags are fine though mind you...
 
I would completely echo the slowing things down to allow horse to process & reduce Adrenalin levels. This combined with giving the horse a bit more of a job to do to get them on your aids.

That said my old dressage horse was quite a sensitive/reactive type who I’d managed as above with reasonable success. She then got worse than normal to the point where she teleported me off a couple of times - she was a tough old bird and didn’t do ‘lame’ but when we vet investigated it was actually career ending, top end Physio and decent instructor and rider couldn’t pick up anything obviously wrong! So it might be worth a good orthopaedic check up if you can’t solve this by a change in training.
 
oldie48 said:
"Any horse I have had in that is sharp and spooky benefits from the rider doing more and taking control,"

I totally agree with this and being "forward" or"wanting to be in front and having a burn" is not the same as being on the aids. I went down the calmer route with my horse but the bottom line was I didn't have any real control of him and he wasn't always listening to me, fortunately I found a trainer who recognised this and helped me. My horse is still sharp and a can be a bit reactive but we are a million miles away from where we were 2 years ago.and our relationship is tons better. Good luck with your mare I hope you find a solution.
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What did you do before when you weren't fully in control? As I feel as though I am so wondered if you were doing the same as me.
 
ShowJumperL95 said:
I have never found a calmer that really works, I found that more exercise and varying the work we did so he never got bored. The only thing I found that actually helped and isn't going to be a constant cost was putting on sheepskin cheek pieces helped keep his focus forward and not the monsters in the bushes next to him or what people and horses were. I just bought a sheepskin noseband and cut it in half.
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I thought of doing this but I saw on some other threads that it can make it worse because they can't see what it was and panic more?
 
Ellietotz said:
She is like it all year round unfortunately! We ride on the New Forest so we generally spook at every horse poo and cow pat - There are a lot of those! The harsh sharp spooks are usually at things you don't see and are likely nonexistant, out in the open where it is just green plain grass. Another local rider once said to me as she was riding towards us from further away "I could tell it was you because you don't go in straight lines"!
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My mare needs restricting all year round, as she is extremely sensitive to grass. She also has gut symptoms which were verified by the vet, yet she rarely has runny poos - more the opposite! I feed her hay or haylage all year to compensate for lack of grazing - the paddock is as large as I dare and it's never enough to giver her the 100 % forage. During times of flush/rain and sunny spells i.e. Spring and Autumn, she also now gets piriton, which this year is helping her a LOT. The dose does need tweaking, though. Her field companion is not affected at all, or gets runny poos on too much grass - this really is horse specific.
 
Ellietotz said:
I thought of doing this but I saw on some other threads that it can make it worse because they can't see what it was and panic more?
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I can understand that for some horses, mine never panicked more when he had them on, it doesn't affect their whole eyesight if they really wanted to look at something they just turn their head and if you have control of the body keeping the body straight if they want a look to see what is is then they can. It just stops mine jumping at the dangerous leaves that move next to him on the other side of the road :rolleyes::) I wouldn't do and use driving blinkers or racing ones as that really compromises their vision
 
I was pondering the what do you do when you ride her thing too that I now see others have raised. There are different ways to tackle that, depending on how genuinely scared they are. When F arrived he seemed to be expecting to be hand held everywhere, I didn't want that so encouraged him to take a bit more responsibility for himself and he became less reactive. That said he has always managed to take my Mum by surprise as she doesn't know him as well, I know when to take a contact and should in past something and if it was something very unnecessary I would be quite forceful about that and if he didn't do so nicely we'd go round again :p.

BUT also he has always seemed to do it for his own entertainment round the lanes etc, ride him down the main road past everything including the car wash and everything is fine :p
 
I apologise if this has been asked already but what is she like if someone else rider her? Or when long reined?
 
ester said:
I was pondering the what do you do when you ride her thing too that I now see others have raised. There are different ways to tackle that, depending on how genuinely scared they are. When F arrived he seemed to be expecting to be hand held everywhere, I didn't want that so encouraged him to take a bit more responsibility for himself and he became less reactive. That said he has always managed to take my Mum by surprise as she doesn't know him as well, I know when to take a contact and should in past something and if it was something very unnecessary I would be quite forceful about that and if he didn't do so nicely we'd go round again :p.

BUT also he has always seemed to do it for his own entertainment round the lanes etc, ride him down the main road past everything including the car wash and everything is fine :p
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I would always make her look and get used to things that she gets nervous about but when it happens so quickly and something that she wouldn't see the second time round, I'm not sure how to react, just trotting along nicely, suddenly dart and immediately continue trotting. She get nervous about going passed the same log outside the gate every single time we go out. I wish I could understand her little mind.
 
ShowJumperL95 said:
I can understand that for some horses, mine never panicked more when he had them on, it doesn't affect their whole eyesight if they really wanted to look at something they just turn their head and if you have control of the body keeping the body straight if they want a look to see what is is then they can. It just stops mine jumping at the dangerous leaves that move next to him on the other side of the road :rolleyes::) I wouldn't do and use driving blinkers or racing ones as that really compromises their vision
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I have ordered an HKM lambskin cover to cut in half and put on the cheekpieces. If it doesn't work then so be it, worth a try rather than spending money on supplements. If it does work, then I can get her used to them and take them off, alternating when they're put on in hope that eventually she won't notice and by that point, she might hopefully with any luck be braver.
 
There's some good advice above. I tried the Science Supplement calmer and noticed a real difference in spooky pony's behaviour. He concentrates on his hay in the stable and hasn't box walked since he started on it, and I rarely have the spine jarring spooks now. Placebo? Who knows - I don't care! He sighs contentedly now, and is much happier in himself. He had all checks and I'm careful with his diet. Was convinced enough to buy a second tub.
 
ozpoz said:
There's some good advice above. I tried the Science Supplement calmer and noticed a real difference in spooky pony's behaviour. He concentrates on his hay in the stable and hasn't box walked since he started on it, and I rarely have the spine jarring spooks now. Placebo? Who knows - I don't care! He sighs contentedly now, and is much happier in himself. He had all checks and I'm careful with his diet. Was convinced enough to buy a second tub.
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Spine jarring spooks, I know that all to well. 25 going on 70 here! Interesting to know though, thank you.
 
Mine is reactive all year round OP too so will stay on the graze ezy all year round if it continues to affect her positively.

I do agree schooling and riders mindset and wayof habdkibgthings play a part but I also know I spent s fortune ifvets Physio’s trainers etc and the only thing that made a difference is the grazexy products - it’s not a “calmer” in the traditional sense more a combatant to modern grazing, when it is not a mag deficiency - believe me I went down that road too!
 
I meant more, how precisely do you react? My mare also spooks (purple flowers are especially scary). She also used to hack out in swervy lines, rather than straight. We identified that I was backing off, just fractionally, whenever she got tense. Since concentrating on keeping my leg and rein contact rock steady when she feels skittery, and actively riding straight lines and deliberate lateral work out on hacks, she's much better. She'll still spook at purple flowers, but her reactions are far less disruptive. It wasn't a big obvious backing-off I was doing; it was pretty subtle and very brief, but enough to give her ideas!
 
spookypony said:
I meant more, how precisely do you react? My mare also spooks (purple flowers are especially scary). She also used to hack out in swervy lines, rather than straight. We identified that I was backing off, just fractionally, whenever she got tense. Since concentrating on keeping my leg and rein contact rock steady when she feels skittery, and actively riding straight lines and deliberate lateral work out on hacks, she's much better. She'll still spook at purple flowers, but her reactions are far less disruptive. It wasn't a big obvious backing-off I was doing; it was pretty subtle and very brief, but enough to give her ideas!
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Hmm I probably do something subconsciously in order to stay on if she spooks but there is never any warning that it's going to happen and never anything obvious that I can see that I think she might spook at. It's extremely sharp and sudden. I focus on looking ahead and keeping my body relaxed and balanced but I do have to have my knees very secured to the saddle. I reckon if you let her run across open forest without any rider etc, she would still be darting about left, right and center at non existent objects. I would just love to be able to go along at a nice pace in a straight line, no need for her wanting to speed up or doing these horrible spooks and not have to worry that she's going to do it one day when I'm not prepared and have me off. There have been several close calls. I just want to have a relaxing ride!
 
Ellietotz said:
What did you do before when you weren't fully in control? As I feel as though I am so wondered if you were doing the same as me.
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I think I accepted what he gave me rather than insist on what I asked for so he was always operating on his own terms rather than mine,eg not quite in front of the leg, not quite round enough, didn't move off my right leg, didn't always give me correct bend, would avoid things he found more difficult by going crooked etc which meant I didn't have control of his body. I also had a tendency to back off if he questioned what I was asking him and this slowly escalated into him deciding when he'd had enough work by misbehaving. To a casual observer I would have looked in control but it was really only because he was allowing me to be and although we could do lots of the "tricks" they were never as good as they could be because they were on his terms TBH I now think that many horse/rider partnerships are like this but the wheel comes off when the horse is asked to do something it doesn't want to or finds harder. or is worried by something and panics rather than looking to his rider for guidance. Moving forward required a real mind shift but has paid huge dividends in terms of our relationship. I had to learn to take control and be the leader but it has resulted in me feeling more confident, has improved my riding and I think I have a much happier horse. A trainer, for whom I have the greatest respect, said that everytime you interact with your horse you are training him. This has really resonated with me, so I try to be consistent whether I am handling him, school or hacking, the boundaries stay the same. I'm not a very experienced rider like many on here, I'm just sharing my own experience in case it helps.
 
oldie48 said:
I think I accepted what he gave me rather than insist on what I asked for so he was always operating on his own terms rather than mine,eg not quite in front of the leg, not quite round enough, didn't move off my right leg, didn't always give me correct bend, would avoid things he found more difficult by going crooked etc which meant I didn't have control of his body. I also had a tendency to back off if he questioned what I was asking him and this slowly escalated into him deciding when he'd had enough work by misbehaving. To a casual observer I would have looked in control but it was really only because he was allowing me to be and although we could do lots of the "tricks" they were never as good as they could be because they were on his terms TBH I now think that many horse/rider partnerships are like this but the wheel comes off when the horse is asked to do something it doesn't want to or finds harder. or is worried by something and panics rather than looking to his rider for guidance. Moving forward required a real mind shift but has paid huge dividends in terms of our relationship. I had to learn to take control and be the leader but it has resulted in me feeling more confident, has improved my riding and I think I have a much happier horse. A trainer, for whom I have the greatest respect, said that everytime you interact with your horse you are training him. This has really resonated with me, so I try to be consistent whether I am handling him, school or hacking, the boundaries stay the same. I'm not a very experienced rider like many on here, I'm just sharing my own experience in case it helps.
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Thank you for this. It's definitely me then. I accept what I'm given but it's not as though I don't want it, because I do and that's probably why I go with it. So even though I have contact and breaks, I never have to ask her to go forward, I never have to use my leg unless we are in a 'scary' situation. She goes at her own pace and I just steer. I do have to click her along sometimes... coming to think of it, I can't recall a spook like that for times I've asked her to go forwards, only when she's chosen to. I guess because I had contact and felt that I was in control in terms of, I can stop if I wanted to, I thought it would be enough for her to look to me for trust/control. She confuses me though because if we do get to a situation where she is nervous and doesn't want to go ahead, she will really look to me for help and listen when I push her on. I didn't think that that would be enough to cause the sharp sudden spooks. Question is though, if we are galloping for example, I want to and she wants to, how can she know if I'm in control? I have contact but I don't need to push her on as she's doing that anyway and I don't ask her to slow until we need to. Or if I've asked her to trot and she is willingly trotting forwards without me needing to keep leg on etc, surely then she is in control again? Or is it all dependent on the start and finish, not in between?
 
Ellietotz said:
Thank you for this. It's definitely me then. I accept what I'm given but it's not as though I don't want it, because I do and that's probably why I go with it. So even though I have contact and breaks, I never have to ask her to go forward, I never have to use my leg unless we are in a 'scary' situation. She goes at her own pace and I just steer. I do have to click her along sometimes... coming to think of it, I can't recall a spook like that for times I've asked her to go forwards, only when she's chosen to. I guess because I had contact and felt that I was in control in terms of, I can stop if I wanted to, I thought it would be enough for her to look to me for trust/control. She confuses me though because if we do get to a situation where she is nervous and doesn't want to go ahead, she will really look to me for help and listen when I push her on. I didn't think that that would be enough to cause the sharp sudden spooks. Question is though, if we are galloping for example, I want to and she wants to, how can she know if I'm in control? I have contact but I don't need to push her on as she's doing that anyway and I don't ask her to slow until we need to. Or if I've asked her to trot and she is willingly trotting forwards without me needing to keep leg on etc, surely then she is in control again? Or is it all dependent on the start and finish, not in between?
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TBH if she's spooking a lot, I wouldn't be galloping even if it's fun for both of you. Be positive and others gave you what I think is the correct constructive advice, slow everything down. I worked with a trainer who just focused on Mr B being round and in front of the leg, in every gait and in every transition and later on in every lateral movement etcIt sounds boring but it wasn't, it was hard work and played dividends. We also worked a lot on suppleness and this is ongoing. On my own I did lots of work in walk, moving him around, making sure I could control his shoulders, walk on a long rein then pick him up without him jogging. Lots of lateral work which we both found harder in walk than trot or canter. We have perfected walk pirouettes which was a major achievement. Then I moved up to trot and did a lot of the same. Most of this stuff you can do on hacks, you don't need a school. I honestly feel it has done wonders for our relationship and although I feel so much more in control I feel we are partners but I am the senior one. good luck!
 
I was thinking about this thread today. Millie can be a spooky sort when out on her own and we have had a few incidents over the last few weeks where she has taken to a spin and run, which is unacceptable to me. We’ve been together now for a few months, so still getting to know one another and she’s very different to Diva- who generally reacted to spooky objects via an on-the-spot-jump (much more preferable!).
Millie is a hand-holding type. When she is unsure of something, her head comes up and she noticeably tenses, gets a choppier walk and sometimes tries to jog. Because she has done a few spin and runs, I realised that I wasnt doing enough to give her the confidence so I had a play around with a few things and have found that she’s much better if I keep my leg on her in a secure way- but without gripping or tensing- and I also make sure I can feel her under my ring finger. That way, I know I’m not pulling or hanging on her mouth, but she feels me there. That seems to give her a bit more confidence and she deals with things much better that way.
At the moment, we happily trot and canter in open fields, but if we are on tracks lined with ditches and hedges, we stick to walk for the time being as she is still getting used to things like birds taking off from them.
She is yet to meet our resident heron who likes to emerge from the ditch just as you ride past... I can’t say I’m looking forward to that day!
 
scats said:
I was thinking about this thread today. Millie can be a spooky sort when out on her own and we have had a few incidents over the last few weeks where she has taken to a spin and run, which is unacceptable to me. We’ve been together now for a few months, so still getting to know one another and she’s very different to Diva- who generally reacted to spooky objects via an on-the-spot-jump (much more preferable!).
Millie is a hand-holding type. When she is unsure of something, her head comes up and she noticeably tenses, gets a choppier walk and sometimes tries to jog. Because she has done a few spin and runs, I realised that I wasnt doing enough to give her the confidence so I had a play around with a few things and have found that she’s much better if I keep my leg on her in a secure way- but without gripping or tensing- and I also make sure I can feel her under my ring finger. That way, I know I’m not pulling or hanging on her mouth, but she feels me there. That seems to give her a bit more confidence and she deals with things much better that way.
At the moment, we happily trot and canter in open fields, but if we are on tracks lined with ditches and hedges, we stick to walk for the time being as she is still getting used to things like birds taking off from them.
She is yet to meet our resident heron who likes to emerge from the ditch just as you ride past... I can’t say I’m looking forward to that day!
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This is interesting to know, thanks! I went out tonight and made sure everything we did, I asked for her to do, not just going with it. When she went in to trot, I made her walk again before the request came from me. I also played with my reins really lightly the whole time and made sure I looked ahead and stuck to my own path. I felt she was concentrating a bit more but may be in my head, won't know for sure until it's been a few times. She was still nervous at things and a bit snorty, nothing out of the ordinary but I made sure I just pushed her forwards. Will see how it goes!
 
You've been given lots of great advise. One thing that helped me - & I think several others have said the same in other ways, it can be a control thing. The horse needs to be concentrating on you & completely responsive to everything you ask. When you ask for transitions is it instant or is there a lag - practise halt walk & check. Without realising i had a lag btw request & action, working on something as seemingly basic as that has changed our relationship. She is a forward horse so it wasnt obvious.
Also think about the spook being a reward for her, the further she gets from the scary object the better for her, your log at the top of your drive she spooks at, you know it will happen, so make her stand beside it, take a step back, step forward & repeat, without either of you looking at it, once she is calm walk on. Don't just stand & stare at the scary object, you are aiming to get her listening to you & forget there is anything other than you in her world.
It all takes work, mine does still spook, but no where near as often or dramatic. She is listening to me & waiting for me to react first
 
JillA said:
I would be checking for magnesium deficiency by giving magnesium oxide as a supplement for a couple of weeks. It's more common than we realise, thanks to "forcing" grass with nitrogen over many years, (is the cause of staggers in dairy cattle) and it is cheap enough. If it hasn't made a difference over a couple of weeks that isn't the problem, but it transformed my horse in that sort of time
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What dose would you recommend? She’s a 14.1 welsh mare
 
w1bbler said:
You've been given lots of great advise. One thing that helped me - & I think several others have said the same in other ways, it can be a control thing. The horse needs to be concentrating on you & completely responsive to everything you ask. When you ask for transitions is it instant or is there a lag - practise halt walk & check. Without realising i had a lag btw request & action, working on something as seemingly basic as that has changed our relationship. She is a forward horse so it wasnt obvious.
Also think about the spook being a reward for her, the further she gets from the scary object the better for her, your log at the top of your drive she spooks at, you know it will happen, so make her stand beside it, take a step back, step forward & repeat, without either of you looking at it, once she is calm walk on. Don't just stand & stare at the scary object, you are aiming to get her listening to you & forget there is anything other than you in her world.
It all takes work, mine does still spook, but no where near as often or dramatic. She is listening to me & waiting for me to react first
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I don't think there is a lag but if I'm honest, I have never heard of it! I practiced the other day asking her to stand and walk on and stand which she did, straight away, I think? It makes me worry that I'm no good for her because it's probably my fault and I don't know how to fix it!
 
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