Really need some advice, bone scan again? Utterly lost (long).

[BeckyD]

Just heard - it's hind suspensories they think.

Blocked out right and he went sound (from 3-4/10ths lame), but very lame left (4/10ths) so they blocked left and he became totally sound. So...I'm going to pick him up tonight, take him back next Mon for them to be scanned. To be honest, if they're really bad I'll think to retire him anyway, but will keep an open mind until next Monday. Of course having spent £3k to get to this stage isn't great with a vets fee limit of £5k, but at least we know now.

You sound like you've given every option good thought, and I would agree that keeping them in work is better than turning away in your case. I think for me (and Ronnie) turning away would be the start of retirement. It's a massive commitment to keep them fit and in work, but then at least they're doing what you bought them for. Much as I love horses in all shapes and guises, I do not buy horses to be field ornaments

Right, off to pick him up. He's spent the whole day sedated so isn't allowed any hay on the journey. He'll go nuts

 

[kit279]

Hind suspensories do really well with the op - I would definitely consider having it done as you may very well get your horse back, rideable and competable. Sue Dyson at the AHT is the person to go to. Lots of people in Comp Riders have had experience of this so worth asking.

 

[legend]

I just wanted to say thanks loads for this post- I've found it really interesting reading since I've just turned my boy away (probably permenantly) with sacroiliac problems caused by trauma.
Only problem is that now that I am seriously considering having his hind suspensories scanned before giving up on him...arrgh I really don't know what to do either!

 

[Sooty]

No advice, just really hope you get a positive outcome. At least the problem is diagnosed. Hugs to you both.

 

[cellie]

I agree with your bute comment theres no point in riding a horse in pain.The only time I ever did it was to fuse spavin after surgery on vets orders.Ollies on msm and herbal anti inflammatory no danilon.Thing is we know our horses and act with compassion.Everything I have done is with his best interests and wefare in mind .Weird but alot of non-caring owners never have a hiccup even my vet commented on this .He said he sees some shocking neglected horses and it didnt seem fair that well cared and loved ones had all the problems.

 

[Marchtime]

So sorry to hear it is hind suspensories. Makes sense though as they are so linked to sacroilliac problems. He does sound very similar to Jesper who is lame behind due to hind suspensories, is lame in one fore leg due to collateral ligament damage and also has SI problems. Jesper initially recovered from hind suspensory damage and stayed sound for a number of years but the damage to his right fore collateral ligament caused him to compensate meaning his hinds were put under pressure.
I hope the vets support you in whatever decision you reach.
Hugs.

 

[checkmate1]

Hugs for you this must be wirling around your head all the time. I am incomplete agreement with the others...turn him away (maybe with a bit of sedative to start with so he dosen't go mental and do more damage?!) with some nice friends in a big fat field. Get regular physio over the summer (Indie had her physio treatment every week for months after she damaged her SI), also repeating others..look at shoeing, my horse was unshod behind when she got injured, she must have been trotting up 2 or3/10th lame at least, phsio reccomended getting her shod behind and hey presto! (Ok, thats a simple version).
Let us know what you decide.
Edited to say, just read about suspensories.

 

[alisonpook]

Hind Limb Suspensories do not respond well to field rest. It may be worth a pm to Jet-set and Star. They both have personal experience of bringing horses back to soundness with hind limb suspensory issues. Our horse had this injury nearly 10 years ago when the recommended treatment was box rest but it has since been shown that more aggressive treatment such as shockwave therapy while the injury is in the acute stage has a better prognosis for the horse returning to soundness. Don't blame yourself for the problem. Our horse had 2 trips to Newmarket and on the first trip the vet said he would have passed him sound had it been a soundness examination . It was only when he persisted with the examination and lunged him in canter on a soft surface that he began to see issues.

 

[BeckyD]

Yes I have followed everyone's experiences of PSD - it's one of the few things I know a bit about! I might see if I can get over to Sue Dyson. My vet last night said that all the practitioners at Cambridge have different views on the right way to treat PSD - I said everyone I know has ended up having surgery so I fear we may be looking at that. Will find out more on Monday hopefully when they scan them.

 

[BeckyD]

What do you think caused Jesper's right fore collateral ligament damage? Do you think it was connected to the hinds as well?

How did you treat the suspensories first time around?

 

[Morrigan_Lady]

[ QUOTE ]
Forget about the wind.

I'd be chucking him out for a year and seeing what happens. I'd also ensure that he had some gentle physio work throughout the summer and be paying close attention to his feet.

If there's no improvement - and he's can't be paddock sound - he'd go.

Hugs flower ((((( ))))))

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with AM here. xx

 

[kit279]

Just to reassure you a little, I'm actually really glad for you that they know what's wrong now as PSD is one of the few things that can really really be turned around and cured by the surgery. Although the word 'surgery' sound quite dramatic, the op itself involves very little incision. They simply cut the nerve that 'feels' the suspensory ligament and the horse is usually instantly sound afterwards (after the swelling from the op has gone down). If that's the only thing wrong with Ronnie (and I'd assume his SI problems stem from behing unlevel behind) then you'll probably be able to ride him again afterwards. I know at least 3 intermediate and advanced eventers who had the op quite young and went on to great things!

ETS:- if you are offered shockwave therapy, think carefully. It is definitely more conservative management but all the people I know who have had it were mild cases and prone to recurrent flare-ups. They all ended up having the op at a later date anyway as the horse's work load increased. If it were one of mine, I'd always go straight for the op.

 

[BeckyD]

Thank you gosh I must be way too emotional as that made me cry! If there is anything I can do for him I will, and thank you so much for the advice about shockwave. I was sure that I'd heard people say they've ended up going for surgery in the end despite trying other things, so surgery may be the best thing.

How long could he have had bad suspensories for? I feel awful having not noticed before

Thank you, I'm feeling more hopeful for him. Just as I'd got my head round throwing him out in a field and letting him get on with it

Roll on Monday. I'm wishing the weeks away at the moment, waiting for the next vet appt!

 

[Marchtime]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think caused Jesper's right fore collateral ligament damage? Do you think it was connected to the hinds as well?

How did you treat the suspensories first time around?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesper has bad foot confirmation - he has low lying pedal bones and paper thin soles. The hind suspensory damage can't be said to have caused his collateral ligament damage but in my opinion definitely contributed. He injured his left hind suspensory aged 5yrs and had shockwave, three months box rest and three months paddock rest. He came back in to work sound. However, he was intermittently lame in front from about the age of 7yrs until diagnosis at 9yrs old. He was diagnosed following an MRI with collateral ligament damage in his right fore. The weakness in his left hind suspensory meant his right fore was put under more pressure than usual. I think the collateral ligament damage would always have occurred (it's chronic not acute), however not to the degree it has and I think it would have been easier to treat.
Currently we think he is sound in front, but now is lame behind. His hind suspensories are now both showing signs of PSD (probably due to the stress from not using his front end properly) and at the last visit the vet suspected his SI was also playing up.
Whilst the PSD op has a good success rate I'd think long and hard. You need to find out what's going on in front as well as if he's lame in front an op on both hinds is going to increase the pressure on both front legs. Similarly PSD will increase the likelihood of SI reoccuring.
Sorry to not be more helpful but I think once you get to the point where you have front limb, hind limb and back problems you're in a viscious circle. By treating one you're probably going to compensation issues which will set the other off. Definitely talk to Sue Dyson - she is also the leading expert in collateral ligament damage. Very knowledgeable. She saw Sammy before we lost him and I was thinking about getting Jesper referred to her but insurance ran out and there's no treatment for his right fore except neurectomy.
PM anytime you want to talk or if I can give you more info.
Good luck.

 

[The Original Kao]

[ QUOTE ]
Forget about the wind.

I'd be chucking him out for a year and seeing what happens. I'd also ensure that he had some gentle physio work throughout the summer and be paying close attention to his feet.

If there's no improvement - and he's can't be paddock sound - he'd go.

Hugs flower ((((( ))))))

[/ QUOTE ]


Ditto Amymay

((((hugs)))))