Really shocked by an attack on my horse...

Nickles1973

Nickles1973

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In April I moved my horse to a new yard which has everything I have ever wanted for me and my horse. It's small and private, has secure tack storage, massive stables, a brand new menage and even a toilet (That alone is a luxury compared to previous yard) The yard owner is a lovely lady and an equine vet.
Initially there were just 3 horses and 2 ponies, all geldings and they were all chilled out and happy in each others company. At the end of July the y/o's horse, an old chestnut gelding had started to look very poor and was getting more and more lame behind. It was decided that he would be pts to avoid him suffering through the winter and y/o bought a new horse for herself.
A mare. On the day she arrived on the yard she kicked my friends foal as he was being led across the yard. But in her defence it was thought that as she was new my friend should have asked for her to be tied up before walking her boy past her on the yard as sometimes mares can be nasty to unknown foals.
Since then she has been turned out with two of the other geldings and there has been no further signs of her being nasty. I had asked for my boy not to be turned out with her for a while as I wanted to get to know her a bit better and since my horse can be a bit coltish at time I worried that he might hurt her. He has been out with mares before and has always got to really like them but has been seen to try to mount them so it was agreed best to let them just suss each other out from a distance for a while.
We have hacked the two of them out together a few times and she has shown no aggression towards him at close quarters.
So today the electric fence that had been up to allow me a corridor to bring my horse in through her field was taken down so that they could get to know each other over the gate.
Tonight I went as usual to bring my boy in for his tea and as I brought him through the gate the mare started to walk towards us. I turned my horse as I usually do so that I could shut the gate behind us and she calmly turned her back on him and set about trying to kick the living daylights out of him.
It was the most terrifying thing I have ever seen..My horse is a big 16.3 thoroughbred and would usually take no prisoners but he was caught totally by surprise and she just kept kicking and kicking. I straight away let him go so that he could get away and shouted for all I was worth but she wouldn't stop and he ran off towards the gate in terror.
She followed but seemed satisfied she'd done enough and he gingerly came limping back to me. I led him in and kept shouting and waving to keep her at bay.
He is incredibly battered and bruised. There are small cuts and lots of grazes and hoof shaped bruises but amazingly it seems all the kicks were aimed high and hopefully the damage seems to be to muscle rather than bone.
Obviously the advantage of having my vet on sight meant that he was seen immediately. She had me walk and trot him up and although very sore and stiff he was not horribly lame. He has had danillon tonight and will have more tomorrow and has been turned out with his quiet cobby friend to keep him moving.
The vet thinks he will be fine after a couple of days danillon which I really hope is the case. She was genuinely shocked that this has happened and very sorry. But she still believes in group turnout and now I'm very worried about this.
I have never seen anything like this before and honestly thought I was watching my horse's last moments unfold in front of my eyes. It also occurred to me when I got home that I could have easily been hurt too as hooves were flying and neither horse knew or cared where I was.
I am really shaken by this and am worried that given the chance she would do the same thing again. Is this normal mare behaviour?? I am by no-means a novice owner but I have not experienced this type of thing before.
 
What a shock for you, hope your boy is OK. We have had a number of mares over the years and never had any turn out problem with them.

In your situation,you are paying for livery, I think you have to ask to go back a step and take measures to keep yourself and horse safe.
 
What a shock for you. Hope he will be ok.

We had a mare a bit aggressive as a livery. There were only issues if something was stupid enough to stand their ground and kick back, as our gelding was sometimes.

Hopefully in your case, the mare did it because she thought your gelding was spinning round to kick her when you turned him to shut the gate. Perhaps you could do with a bit of electric fence around the gate area so that you can safely shut the gate then allow the horse to go into the field without being cornered by the mare or another horse?
 
My old mare did this exact same thing to my gelding a few years ago, totally cornered him and threw double barrel after double barrel at him. In the end I had to spray her with a hose (that's how long she was going for!) before she trotted off and i had to go in and rescue a some what shocked ginger thoroughbred from the corner. I was very lucky that no real harm was done, but she was always on single turnout from then on - it's just not worth it.
 
I totally understand your concerns I wouldnt want my horse out with another that has kicked like that, I would just say to yo that you really dont want your horse out with her, I ride past next doors livery yards fields and I have seen a few mares in there fields kick like that, just running backwards and kicking for all they are worth and I think horses like this should be out on there own its not worth the risk, I hope your horse makes a good recovery.
 
To me this is totally normal behaviour but that's maybe because I have witnessed this in an established herd of geldings before and now we take a lot of time before fully integrating a new horse. Normally it's due to the existing horses being an issue but it can be if the new horse is particularly dominant and I would imagine this is often the case with mares. From her view he invaded her space and generally the personal space thing is the main issue so I suggest putting the fence back up, not leading a horse through her space. If she's to be integrated with the bunch do it in st stages. If that's not the intention then for everyone's safety put the fence back up!
 
I too have lost a horse after a kickathon in the field, it broke her hock. I would not put your horse out with this mare again, it is too risky. I am a big fan of group turnout, but some horses just can't cope with it. If she had her shoes taken off for a month I might try it again, to see if they are OK once settled.
 
How horrible, I completely understand your reluctance to turn our horse out with this mare again and I am surprised that your YO is even considering turning her out with him again. In my opinion, bringing a mare into a herd of geldings is foolhardy. It sounds like a great yard, but, if this is the way it has to be, I'd would be taking my horse away. I hope it does not come to this.
 
We have a large mixed herd of 18 horses. Only time there is any kicking like this is from newer members asserting themselves within the herd ranking. Alpha mare doesn't kick out, she has no need to.

In your situation I would be asking for the fencing to go back up to keep your horse safe going to and from the field. Hope he is not so sore today
 
Yes, this is quite normal behaviour; perhaps shocking for you if you haven't seen a serious kicking before, but nothing out of the ordinary within herd dynamics. Mares do tend to be the "boss" (or think they should be), and can be very protective of their space. No advice to offer other than I always used to keep mares and geldings separate when I had large groups. As several people have related their stories, kicks can result in catastrophic injuries, but are part of what horses do.
 
Echoing others basically: IF you're sure you want to stay at this yard I'd ask the YO if she'd take the hind shoes off the mare before turning out, if you can't get a facility for yours to be taped off. Unfortunately mares can be very unpredictable: my loan mare suddenly pitched into my traddie the other day for no reason whatsoever and kicked the ****e out of him for about 10 minutes, then half an hour after that even they were out eating together and later rubbing necks. Its just the way mares are sometimes, but very scarey if you're in the middle of it and/or worried about your horse.

But really I'm surprised than anyone calling themselves an "equine vet" could be so flippin stoopid TBH as to insist on group turnout when patently the herd dynamic is so dangerous for a livery's horse. FFS, what does she want before she'll change anything, a broken leg???

You are paying for livery, and you are paying to have peace of mind about your horse. If your YO won't listen to sense then you may have to act in the interests of your horse and seek alternative livery. But frankly I'm amazed.
 
Group turnout in confined spaces like moderate sized fields only work for everyone when the herd is settled, you might put them together again and he might not go anywhere near her having been on the receiving end of the dooing !! But if she is a particularly aggressive mare, she might target a few, or him again, i have a particularly aggressive gelding who took a dislike to my neices old pony,he would spot him being turned out from the other side of a large field and quite literally run across the field to try to attack him, the pony was very quiet, never kicked out and would try to run away but my boy hated him, and spent all his time trying to get to the pony, they just couldnt be together safely, only time will with this mare as shes a bit of an unknown entity atm by the sound of it.
 
Put your foot down, OP. There was a mare like this at my last yard and I left just over a week after she tried to kick the daylights out of me and my ponies. I was helpless and couldn't get into the field for about 20 minutes. I told the manager that I was not willing to risk mine or my ponies' safety and paid double livery rather than stay. Weeks after I left, the mare broke the ribs of a gelding. I also support group turnout, but there are always exceptions and yards need to either accommodate those or shift the horse on.
 
Good and possibly bad news this morning. My boy has no swelling to any of his legs and the cuts and grazes all look clean and no worse than last night. However, where she obviously connected hard on his flank he is very very sore. Think tucking up when a fly lands on him.
Yard owner thinks it's possible she has broken his ribs, but equally it could just be badly bruised. It's far enough back to not interfere with where his saddle would go but will obviously take time to get better. There is nothing to be done but danillon and rest and then see how he is.
She is very sorry and quite shocked still that this happened. A fellow livery had done exactly the same as me earlier in the day when bringing her horse in and the mare had completely ignored her gelding.
She is happy to keep her away from G for the time being and we will think on about future arrangements. I will be very nervous of ever letting her near him ever again.
 
I am appalled that someone as experienced as your YO seems to be would allow this to happen.
New horses should always have their hind shoes removed and be grazed alongside the established herd, when they are completely settled, the other horses should also have their hind shoes removed before they are all put in together.
Did I understand correctly that they were not grazing together but that you had to walk your horse through the mare's field to get to the yard? That is something that imo should never happen anyway. I'm afraid that your YO is not as good as she should be at running a livery yard.
 
that's awful. Can you keep him away from her from now on?

My sisters ISH hates mares with a passion used to bully my little mare endlessly if he got in with her. Only left her alone when she finally learnt to buck in his face if he started coming at her !
I've sold her now but I had another mare who was extremely submissive/docile, she was let out of her paddock once and was calming walking across a bit of open space (him on the very far side of the field) and he charged at her from across the field biting and kicking for all he was worth. She was terrified and didn't know what to do, actually wee'd in fear and my little mare tried to come to her defence and with both of them kicking managed to see him off.
Amazingly none of them were hurt!
 
What a shame that your YO chose a mare when the yard is all geldings! In my time at various yards mares and geldings were kept separately. It was usually the mares that ended up kicking and being injured! I would expect her to keep her mare on single turnout until she has settled and forever if she kicks again. It's just too expensive and traumatic to risk kicks. Hope your boy is better soon.
 
Hope you poor lad recovers well, its very upsetting when this sort of thing happens.
Thing is with horses, you can never guarantee that this wont happen, even when the horses know each other well.

My gelding was half killed by another gelding who he had known for over 2 years, ridden together, stabled across the yard from each other and grazed with just an electric fence between them. There had never been the slightest sign of any aggression on either side up until the attack.

They were turned out together after another horse left the yard, and suddenly all hell broke loose.

Luckily I was there and managed to get my cob out before too much damage was done, I dread to think what could have happened otherwise.

Sounds like your YO is as shocked and upset about this as you are, so I'm sure she'll take the necessary precuations, but sometimes these things just happen out of the blue.
 
Personally I wouldn't put my horse (not that I have one right now!) back out with her. As others have said it's not worth the risk. Yes it might be 'horsey' behaviour to a degree but I'd rather not lose my horse to a broken bone which could have been prevented.

She sounds like a reasonable person so I'm sure if your open about your concerns she will respect them.
 
It sounds like neither horse has had a chance to get to know each other properly before you then decided to lead him through her field?
 
ridefast said:
It sounds like neither horse has had a chance to get to know each other properly before you then decided to lead him through her field?[/QUOTE
The mare has been on the yard now for over a month. During the first few days my horse was able to touch her over the yard fence. Apart from the odd squeal they have hardly acknowledged each other. She has been in the field with two other geldings at separate times and together and she has again shown no sign that she might do this. Y/o and I have hacked out together several times and even when at very close quarters to each other she hasn't so much as pinned her ears. And on the day in question they could have been nose to nose over the field gate. Today they have been seen to be grooming each other through a gap in the hedge which divides the two fields. (Very dense hedge I might add which has post and wire fencing through it) So whilst I take your point and also understand that horses will sometimes just act on instinct I still don't think I should have expected it to happen.
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No I don't think that you should have expected it to happen either. It does sound as though you and YO are caring, thinking people who have done a lot to introduce the horses before this day. It doesn't sound as though this mare is particularly aggressive normally, I think it was probably a freak thing, that the mare read the signs wrong when you turned around. I can understand why you and YO are both upset and worried.

I have had mixed groups of mares and geldings that were fine. The only time there was any problem was if a gelding got a bit interested when the mares were coming into season, but weren't quite. Other than that, you wouldn't be able to see any issues.

Hope that your horse is fine after a rest. Sounds as though your YO is keeping an eye on him and willing to sort some arrangement out when he is better. Fingers crossed for you all.x
 
Sometimes horses, no matter how long they are given 'to get to know each other' over an electric fence or gate are ever suited to go out with each other. I know because we have just had to ask a livery to remove her pony from the field, my field share and I have. Our herd is of mares and geldings, 6 in total and are all chilled and happy in their herd, with everyone knowing their position. The mare we asked to go was just nasty. She was fine with 5 of them but took a weird obsessive hatred of the 17.2 shire who just wasn't nimble to move out the way. The last time we attempted to have the in the same field, she instantly selected the shire and literally beat the living daylights out of her and chased her with no obvious intention to ever stop until she was broken. We had to run in and scream and chase them apart. Ridiculous. The mare is now kept on her own with company safely on the other side of a fence!
 
Cortez said:
Yes, this is quite normal behaviour; perhaps shocking for you if you haven't seen a serious kicking before, but nothing out of the ordinary within herd dynamics. Mares do tend to be the "boss" (or think they should be), and can be very protective of their space. No advice to offer other than I always used to keep mares and geldings separate when I had large groups. As several people have related their stories, kicks can result in catastrophic injuries, but are part of what horses do.
Click to expand...

It might be normal for mares, but I never see this in my stallion/gelding herd. Thanks goodness. The odd threat or kick, yes (usually the gelding who thinks he is 'lead mare'), but I've never seen one follow up.
IMO it's not acceptable for a horse to behave like this when there's a human present. They should respect your space, even if they don't respect each others.
 
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