Really stupid question about horses working in outlines...

[wench]

Or how to actually get a horse to work in one. I have been riding for a fair few years (had a bit of time off due to work commitments), but still own my horse. One thing I have constantly struggled with is to actually get a horse to work in an outline, as I really don't know how.

I know the theory, horse has to be working from behind, into a steady contact. However, even when I think I'm riding a horse correctly, it still looks dreadful. I'm guessing the main part of the reason is that I haven't really ridden anything well schooled/used to working itself properly, which wont help.

I am aware that in order to better my riding, I need lots of lessons, but this is what I want to know... how come some people can just get on horses and get them going properly? I know I flipping well cant!!!

 

[kc100]

I think it is a lot to do with the horse's age and its training - if you sit on a 14 year old horse who has never been taught to work in an outline before and has been allowed to go round with its neck in the air its whole life, then even a pro would struggle to get that kind of horse working in an outline.

I do often wonder the same as you - after all how do you 'teach' an outline? My former share horse knew how to work in an outline but most of the time chose not to (although for some weird reason after jumping he'd work in a beautiful outline!). So my trainer always said to keep tweaking the inside rein when his head came up and keep a firm outside hand and that seemed to work.

With my current share, he is so well schooled I never need to worry about his neck, but on the odd occasion where he does chose to have a nosey at something or becomes a little inconsistent in the contact, the same technique works for him - tweak the inside rein (kind of jiggle it and move the bit slightly in the mouth) and put some leg on too, that soon switches him back on.

However with a horse that has never learnt how to work in an outline - I'm no expert here so may be wrong - I believe you teach them long and low first, to teach them how to work over their backs and stretch down into the contact, before you ask them to come up into a more advanced frame.

A dressage trainer is going to be your best bet, far more qualified than I am to comment and if your horse has never really worked in an outline before its not just you that needs the lessons, he will need to learn too!

 

[SpottedCat]

What you're basically asking is how can you be taught 'feel'? And the answer is via a very very good trainer or via schoolmaster lessons. The latter is infinitely easier than the former.

 

[Cortez]

I think what you are really asking is two questions, 1 - how do I ride a horse on the bit, and 2 - how do I teach a horse to accept the bit and go accordingly. You must learn the 1st from a good schoolmaster and teacher before you will ever be able to teach a horse the 2nd.

 

[Palindrome]

It's difficult without seeing you and the horse. Is the horse above the bit, behind the bit or on the bit but you ride with floppy reins?
A good starter exercise is to go on a circle and use the inside leg to move the haunches slightly out of the circle, do not give with your outside rein. The horse will put himself into an outline because you are making him put more weight onto his hindquarters. Keep a nice rythm and, particularly at the trot, slow down if you see the horse is finding it difficult and accelerating because loosing balance. It is hard work for him so give breaks on a long rein, pats and build up progressively the work. Your hands need to stay as still as possible so the horse can trust the contact you are giving him, trying to fiddle with the hands will result in the horse arching his neck in some way but not properly engaging his hindquarters.

 

[wench]

This would be on all horses...

I have never ridden a dressage "schoolmaster"

 

[Palindrome]

Then, get yourself a treat and book a lesson in your area. By the way, I don't think it's a stupid question at all.

 

[Bernster]

Really not a stupid question and one I struggle with too! The holy grail of horse riding imo. I think I know more about what isn't riding in an outline than what is, as it's not about pulling the head in, but beyond that I'm still a bit stumped tbh.

Def agree about having a good instructor, particularly with a dressage focus, and ideally one (for me) that doesnt just yell "more contact" "outside leg inside hand" on a regular basis, as this means ****** all to me!

I tried schoolmaster lessons but didn't really work that well for me, or maybe I didn't have the right school/horse. Flatwork instructor has been the best thing, plus Mary Wanless clinics to help me understand about position etc.

Far easier now I have a more forward horse who is nicely schooled, so I did kind of cheat there

 

[LegOn]

It's not a stupid question at all - I have learnt that it just takes time, time, more time and patience - lots and lots of patience.

My horse had never gone in a outline his whole life, so it was a huge learning curve for us both to learn what it meant, what I was asking & for him to understand I was asking him. And of course building up the right muscles for him to do so comfortably - so you are talking years here, fully I think it took us about 2 years to get there.

Once I developed a 'feel' which again is hard to describe but its the process of creating energy with your leg,breathing it through yourself and your horse and containing it in your hand and feeling the horse work properly through themselves and into the bridle - but once I did get it, and I would sit up on other horses, I found that I was just able to automatically ask them for a contact & work properly.

Its an amazing process to go through with a horse that hasnt worked properly before & come out the other side - its like retraining and learning yourself all at the same time!

Lessons, time, patience and read as much about it as you can - I found the book 'The Classical Seat' by Syliva Loch really good reading!

 

[_GG_]

I think what you are really asking is two questions, 1 - how do I ride a horse on the bit, and 2 - how do I teach a horse to accept the bit and go accordingly. You must learn the 1st from a good schoolmaster and teacher before you will ever be able to teach a horse the 2nd.

This.

It isn't a stupid question at all and at its core is your core. It is not possible to have a horse working in self carriage until you can be a balanced and independent rider on top of it. That means that your core is independent of your chest, your chest is independent of your shoulders which are independent of your head, which is independent from your arms, elbows, wrists, hands and fingers. Then your hips and pelvis need to be independent, as do your upper and lower legs.

When you can use each different part of your body without compromising your balance or the position of the rest of your body, you are half way there. You are balanced, so your horse does not have to balance you and can concentrate purely on balancing himself.

When you have this, it is really worth lessons on horses that are established in working correctly. Even GP horses won't work properly unless you ask them to.

It's something that is really hard to describe as, as others have said, it is about feel.

That feel is developed imo by learning to listen to your horse. Really listen, not just think is he happy or not...does he like this or not. But, actually listening to what he is telling you. What tension can you feel and where can you feel it. How well is he responding to the aids?

That last one is quite important too. It's very useful to have your horse going off light aids, not needing to pushed or kicked along. The kinder we can be to them, the better.

When you learn feel and how to listen to individual horses, you can start to learn how to get a tune from most horses. Even a mature horse that has never worked in an outline can start showing willing in a short time if you know how to ask the right questions and MOST IMPORTANTLY know when to reward a try.

Eventually, you will be skilled enough and established and comfortable enough in your riding to be able to teach a horse.

It is all about language....humans and horses speak different languages, so we have to teach them the common language of the aids.

I may have just written way too much so apologies