Really unbalance canter not getting any better

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Hovis_and_SidsMum

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I'm really hoping someone can offer me some good advice.
Sidney is really unbalanced in canter, doesn't use his back end and its not getting any better.
We've changed his bit to try to get him off it, lunged him in side reins, done loads of transitions etc but it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
He's had his back done, although I am going to get a second opinion, and his teeth.
Now it may just be I'm being unrealistic as to how long this is going to take to fix? He's 10 years old and a big horse (17.2) and seems to have been allowed to ride this for some time.
We're now in a catch 22 as hubby is worried to canter him on a hack for fear of him tanking off, as he gets faster and faster as he overbalances, but he's struggling in the school (especially on corners) and I worry he's getting fed up with it all and switching off.
We've not used draw reins yet as I worry he'll fall over with hubby on board in them - am I being an idiot?
Anyone got any good ideas or recommendations of anyone who could help in the Lincolnshire area?
 
Hi Sidneys mum, I am sorry I can't help, but I am sure someone on here will be able to, they are pretty good at this kind of thing.
I see you are from Lincolnshire? Who do you have to do your horses back?
PM me if you like
Kate x
 
Hmm, difficult one!! How is he cantering in circles? HAve you tried putting the side reins between his front legs when lunging him and cantering that way on a smallish (15m) circle? How is his trot work?
 
Kat - his trot work is ok but his cantering on small circles is not good at all. He sticks his head further and further forward and down. Getting his head up then become difficult and I get scared to death as suddenly there is no horse in front of you!
Haven't tried the side reins through his legs - I'll try that.
 
Samp - we've had him about 10 months. He's always been unblanced but we did put some of it down to rider balance issues as well. We have lessons but I think our instructor is out of ideas so a new person might be the answer.
 
Hmm, see if it was unbalance would expect him to hollow not get deeper! Sounds like it is something he has developed to avaoid working himself properly. Is he quick off the leg? What does he do if you give him a hard kick to get him to lift himself up? Does he respond to half halts? DO you jump at all?
 
I would use lots of half halts to get him to 'sit' up on his backend. What are his transitions like are they rushed or does he start alright then run into canter?

The most useful thing would be lots of walk to canter transitions and only canter for a few strides just to build up some muscles, but if he hasn't been taught walk to canter yet i would stick to the half halts to get him listening to you.
 
Are you sure that his saddle fit is OK, a problem could have built up and as you mentioned that you were thinking of a 2nd opinion ref his back I wondered if you suspected the same? I had a similar issue with my horse when he came back from loan, it has taken 3 months and a reflocked saddle to get back to where we were before, so don't give up!
 
Kat - Sidney was a SJ'er. He loves his jump work but he's better than Hubby is!! He does the "head down" trick after jumps too and usually hubby exits via the front or side door! Getting his head back up is nearly impossible sometimes unless you slow back to trot let him sort himself out then go again.
 
ZigZag - on advice we changed him into a waterford last week. Its still early days so don't know if it has helped at all. The idea was to try to stop him leaning on the bit and using hubbys strngth to balance himself.
 
God yes, i'll come and help for nothing if it means you won't try draw reins! i'm near Long Sutton, in South Lincs. draw reins will just put him on the forehand imho, and not necessarily lead to any improvement in balance or control. this kind of thing is not what they're for.
I had a horse in to school years ago with the same problem. it took lots of transitions and really riding the canter forward into a light contact so he learnt to balance himself. (he was so unbalanced that he nearly collided with the arena fence every time we tried to go down the long side, cantered in an erratic zig-zag. it took patience and time, but he got it together.)
definitely check teeth (by someone who takes 40 mins per horse, not 15!) and back first, and also saddle, i'd think.
PM me if you want some help.
 
Ah ok, def sounds like an evasion if he has sjed successfully! Lots of transitions would be helpful to get him to engage his hind legs. What bit have you got him in? Personally would ask for a downwards transition to halt everytime he gets downhill in his canter, ask for something like turn on the haunchs to engage his hind legs, and then ask for canter again. This would reinforce it is not acceptable to dive on his forehand!! Also grids with bounces and lots of poles on the floor may help?
 
[ QUOTE ]
ZigZag - on advice we changed him into a waterford last week. Its still early days so don't know if it has helped at all. The idea was to try to stop him leaning on the bit and using hubbys strngth to balance himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have suggested a waterford as well, hope it helps, have you tried lunging him in a pessoa to get him using himslef correctly
 
ZigZag- next on the list of things to try is a pessoa. I've never used one before though so have been slightly concerned about doing more harm than good. Does anyone know of any good "instructions"/ diagrams / videos on how to use one correctly?
 
Deffo not draw reins, for one thing, your OH is a novice and so it is a big no-no!

How does he canter on the lunge with no equipment? How does he canter in the field? You need to study how he moves without a rider on his back to get a clear picture as to what is going wrong when he is ridden - any chance of some vid?
 
Umm, if his problem is having his head and neck too far down, and falling on to the forehand, i can't see how a pessoa is going to help... surely he'll just duck down/behind it? ditto draw reins... they would be the very last thing i'd suggest for a problem like this.
 
Pessoas are great, but would recommend if you genuinely believe the the canter is truly unbalanced as they cant save themselves if they trip up.
 
Weezy
Ok - will definitely not use draw reins. Don't want to damage him in any way. I just want to help him sort himself out.
He will canter better on the lunge but still tends to stick his head forwards and down - stretching his neck if you can imagine what i mean, after a few "circuits".
His canter in the field is fine.
I've not got any video of him but will get some.
 
While transitions are useful for rebalancing, my experience is that lateral work is the most effective way of engaging the back end, even something simple like leg yielding in and out on circles in trot can improve the quality of the canter. I certainly wouldn't encourage anything to restrain the front end
 
Agree with t_w about leg yielding on circles - will deffo help.

TBH it is really hard to comment on what is going on without seeing the horse in action - he may just go quite long and low and therefore is wanting you to *hold him up*, could be that that was how he was trained, or could be that he has gotten used to this way of going to escape pain/bad tack etc and his memory will not shake this off. Pls do try and post some vid and then it will be easier to give you better advice
smile.gif
 
Hi,

My suggestion too! what does he look like with no equipment on the lunge? his natural balance and way of going may tell you where the problem lies - is it discomfort related/laziness/evasion/lack of muscle in right places etc.

He is a big horse (mine is 17.2hh too and they are very large to ride!) - you can do huge amounts at halt/walk/trot transition level that will help enormously with higher gears later, so don't give up....draw reins will just give you a big horse with his nose on his chest and not alot else.

I taught my big one to canter by working on the lunge, initially with no kit on (oo-er, Mrs!) and he found his own way of balancing, then with loose side reins and finaly with a rider (who was not allowed to hold the reins at all, but got him used to the weight round corners).

If in doubt, drop back a gear, get under control and working correctly again and move on up a gear later - I have had entire lessons conducted in walk as not capable of going any faster correctly!

Good luck!

Catherine and Big Edward
 
Thanks everyone for all your suggestions.
I'll try and get some video of him both on the lunge and ridden and post them so you can see.
Weezy - "he may just go quite long and low and therefore is wanting you to *hold him up*" - thats exactly what it looks like. Like he wants you to hold him up whilst he does naff all with his back end.
A new back person has been booked for the end of the week so fingers crossed we can help him and us sort this out.
 
My young horse was badly started and put in draw reins as soon as she was backed so when I got her she was totally on her forehand and used to lower her head on the floor, leave her backend behind and lean on the reins for all she was worth. Basically, lots of schooling, including transitions, changes of rein and lateral work. Don't give him anything to lean on, I used to drop the reins on my mare and she'd almost fall over she was relying on them so much, we had a few near misses aswell when she'd run into the arena fence. I used to give and retake the reins every few strides if she started to lean, and really have the leg on to ensure the hindquaters were engaged. I also got her her teeth and back done and she did have a problem (probably from the b****y draw reins!) and found it a lot easier to work correctly after that, so it's definitely worth getting them checked again.
 
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