Really upset - what do I do now?

But it appears clear from your previous posts that you wouldn't have reprimanded your dog as you don't think he has done anything wrong. So despite the fact that I DON'T agree with someone kicking a dog, I would think it unlikely that he has broken anything and at least the dog has got the message quite clearly today that his actions were unwanted.

Or am I wrong - would you have reprimanded him? And if so, why? How was your dog to know when it is acceptable and not acceptable to "play bite"?

I really find this thread quite astonishing - I had no idea that sensible people actually encouraged dogs to play bite - I never have with any that I have owned - it seems to be a really odd thing to do with a family pet. In the same was I wouldn't want my horse to play kick, or my child to play hit me.

Animals (and children) quickly learn you can have fun without resorting to hurting others.
 
As far as I'm concerned, dogs should never bite, no matter how people play with them. The fact that yours did bite H (you said so in your OP) means he should be kept away from people, especially 2yr old children, in my opinion.
And if you were standing within 5 ft of H and your dog - why didn't you step in to discipline your dog?
My feeling is that the kicking your dog received is your responsibility as an owner - as you have taught him behaviour which others find unacceptable.
If one of my horses was to bite/kick someone, I'd expect them to discipline it (if I didn't get there to give them a wallop first, that is!). But then, I have taught my horses that kicking, biting and barging humans is unacceptable, so they have a clear idea of what humans want.
My sympathies are with the dog.
S :D
 
Kitsune said:
Is this one of those threads where we're only allowed to answer one way?

You have no right to ask the yard OWNER not to be there at certain times, in fact if that was my yard I'd laugh in your face and hand you your notice just for the cheek of asking TBH Im suprised you suggested it.

The decent thing to do would be to not take your dog there any more.
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When on earth did I suggest he can't come onto his own yard?! He does only come up on weekends - has done for the entire time I have been there - nearly a year now.
 
I would expect any dog that went to bite to receive the end of someone's boot whether the owner was there or not. It's a defensive reaction. Biting is unacceptable behaviour. My feisty patterdale has had a boot a few times when he has for no reason decided he wanted to nip someone and I am happy for him to be justly reprimanded rather than reported!
 
I'm afraid this is what can result when you "play rough". It really ain't a good idea, as a dog's idea of rough play can be very rough. I would speak to H, and apologise - and if he allows the dog on his yard, ask him not to instigate rough play again, all you can do really.

You as the owner are responsible for your dog's behaviour, and if H felt he was getting bitten, he had a right to defend himself. You as the owner had the right to stop the play at any time.
 
Sorry I'm mixing up my posts. And still, why risk it? Why does the dog have to be there? Any kicking he gets, the blame is fully at your door I'm afraid.
 
Kitsune said:
I know loads of people who play fight with their kids?! :confused:
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Yes - but I bet they don't let the kids punch and kick them without suggesting to the child that licking and punching is not acceptable and they won't play if that is what they do!

Again, I can only speak from my experiences with child and dog!
 
FMM said:
Yes - but I bet they don't let the kids punch and kick them without suggesting to the child that licking and punching is not acceptable and they won't play if that is what they do!

Again, I can only speak from my experiences with child and dog!
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Licking and punching is NOT acceptable :D
I see what you mean, so you are rough playing but not with intent to cause harm - but then again, playing with a young kid, in the heat of the moment they boot you. What do you do then? End the play of course, but is it their fault for getting too into it, or your fault as an adult for instigating it?
 
FMM - If I thought the play was getting out of hand yes I would reprimand. However, as previously stated I use the term 'bite' very loosely. The dog has never EVER marked skin or drawn blood. If anything he was a little lethargic today as it is quite warm here and he had been out for a couple hours already.

Kitsune, no this is not a thread you can only answer one way - I genuinely want peoples opinions even if I don't necessarily agree with them. If this had been the first time H had play fought my dog then I would understand (although not condone) his actions, however it is a regular game with them and has never been a problem in the past.

Shysmum the dog isn't rough when 'playing rough', he doesn't jump up and as previously stated doesn't even mark skin.
 
I have to agree, not a good idea to allow your dog to bite even if it is in play. My OH plays rough with my English Mastiff but we would never allow him to play bite for exactly these kinds of reasons.
However that said if anyone raised a hand to my animals I would go absolutely ballistic but that would be a gut instant reaction which I would probably regret later :o
I would suggest taking some time to cool off, when you go back to the yard ask if H is ok, try not to get drawn into an argument, let him know your dog is extremely sore and you will have to take him the vet(guilt trip) and that you think its best if H doesnt play with him again. Make sure your dog is always on a lead at the yard or only off it if H isnt there, take it as a learning experience and just move on from it.
 
Simply leave your dog at home. Sorry that he has been hurt but had he been at home he wouldnt be hurt. I have a small private yard and one of my rules is no dogs. I have two of my own and they get upset with strangers on their patch. One (now ex) livery I had asked right at the beginning if she could bring her dog and I said sorry no dogs. Her old dog died and she immediately got a new pup. Yet again she asked if it could come up to the yard. No. Simples.
I doubt the husband would do anything to your horse. Treat the man with respect, apologise for your dog, leave it at home and then no problem.
 
YasandCrystal said:
I would expect any dog that went to bite to receive the end of someone's boot whether the owner was there or not. It's a defensive reaction. Biting is unacceptable behaviour. My feisty patterdale has had a boot a few times when he has for no reason decided he wanted to nip someone and I am happy for him to be justly reprimanded rather than reported!
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Again as stated previously the game has to be instigated, he has never just 'gone to bite someone'. If he had then I would have disciplined him.
 
Probably cause the dog hurt him? Either way, again, the ultimate responsibility is yours. I can see this thread going round and round and round..
 
Sanolly said:
Again as stated previously the game has to be instigated, he has never just 'gone to bite someone'. If he had then I would have disciplined him.
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I think the trouble here is that you think everyone should have the same standards/expectations of dogs as you have.
You don't mind being bitten (as another poster didn't mind having teeth scratches up her arms).
Unfortunately for your dog, most people DON'T find being bitten acceptable, and will take action against the dog to defend themselves. There's no way you can set the 'rules' for how others interact with your dog - all you can do is keep your dog under control, away from people.
Another point is, that you may know your dog is 'only playing' but it takes a brave person to allow themselves to be bitten (without reacting) to find out whether the dog is serious or not. :p :D
I wouldn't recommend you ask H for vet bills...unless you want a new dog/have a new yard to go to...
S :D
 
Are you seriously telling me that if an animal bit you - in play or not - you WOULDNT reprimand it?!!! Clearly you dont see that it is your fault your dog was battered?
I like and respect your posts OP, but in this situation, you were wrong.
Having said that, along with my previous post, to kick a dog 4 times is a bit excessive...unless your dog didnt let go?
Im sorry OP, hope your dog is ok.
 
Shilasdair said:
I think the trouble here is that you think everyone should have the same standards/expectations of dogs as you have.
You don't mind being bitten (as another poster didn't mind having teeth scratches up her arms).
Unfortunately for your dog, most people DON'T find being bitten acceptable, and will take action against the dog to defend themselves. There's no way you can set the 'rules' for how others interact with your dog - all you can do is keep your dog under control, away from people.
Another point is, that you may know your dog is 'only playing' but it takes a brave person to allow themselves to be bitten (without reacting) to find out whether the dog is serious or not. :p :D
I wouldn't recommend you ask H for vet bills...unless you want a new dog/have a new yard to go to...
S :D
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If he doesn't find it acceptable he shouldn't instigate play. His own dog plays rougher than mine and he is the same size as mine if not slightly bigger.
 
Sanolly said:
I have already spoken to D, H doesn't have a mark on him and she also doesn't know why he 'flipped' (her word not mine).
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He 'flipped' because your dog bit him.
Obviously.
Unless you think he set up the entire situation in order to give your dog a gratuitous kicking - in which case you should have protected your dog. :p :D
I like dogs, but Devil, I hate dog owners who don't look after their animals' best interests.
S :D
 
Stubbing my toe doesn't leave a mark but that sure as hell hurts.

Ok so in your eyes H is a psychotic, hypocondriact dog beater, your dog has done no wrong and if he's hurt it's not your fault and someone else should pay the vets bill...is that where this is going?
 
Rosehip said:
Are you seriously telling me that if an animal bit you - in play or not - you WOULDNT reprimand it?!!! Clearly you dont see that it is your fault your dog was battered?
I like and respect your posts OP, but in this situation, you were wrong.
Having said that, along with my previous post, to kick a dog 4 times is a bit excessive...unless your dog didnt let go?
Im sorry OP, hope your dog is ok.
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Can people please read my posts?!

I use the term bite 'loosely' you can barely feel my dogs teeth. He does not bite and hang on.
H has instigated play on numerous occasions, has never had a problem before and knows exactly how my dog plays.
He plays rougher with his own (an possibly slightly larger) dog.
Play ALWAYS has to be instigated, the dog never instigates play himself, it is ALWAYS on the human's terms.
 
Sanolly said:
If he doesn't find it acceptable he shouldn't instigate play. His own dog plays rougher than mine and he is the same size as mine if not slightly bigger.
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Oh, just accept responsibility for your pet's behaviour, and keep it away from people it might hurt/might hurt it.
Not rocket science, and certainly not worth being 'really upset' about in an otherwise 'fabulous' yard.
S :D
 
Kitsune said:
Stubbing my toe doesn't leave a mark but that sure as hell hurts.

Ok so in your eyes H is a psychotic, hypocondriact dog beater, your dog has done no wrong and if he's hurt it's not your fault and someone else should pay the vets bill...is that where this is going?
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No that is not what I am saying.

If I thought that H was a "psychotic, hypocondriact dog beater" then I wouldn't be on the yard in any capacity. However when H deliberately instigates play and then when the dog reacts the way that he always has done when H deliberately instigates play I don't understand why after nearly a year of this routine H suddenly takes an issue with it.
 
OP at the risk of being shot by all other posters I have to say I can see where you are coming from. My dog plays and though he never, never bites he will put his mouth around someones arm etc but never bites down. This is only in instigated play. I would expect someone to stop play with my dog, even shove him off, if they were unhappy with this but repeatedly kicking him I would find very unacceptable.
however as you see from responses everyone deals with this sort of thing differently so H probably thinks he has done nothing wrong. I would either just stop taking up yard or keep it on a lead in future. I wouldn't take it further than that.
 
I give up then, I don't know what you expect us to say - but looking at everyones responses might tell you something.

It's very hard to admit you are in the wrong or have made a mistake, but sometimes it's really just as simple as that. IMHO.

I'm bowing out now because I just can't get my head round it.
 
Sanolly said:
No that is not what I am saying.

If I thought that H was a "psychotic, hypocondriact dog beater" then I wouldn't be on the yard in any capacity. However when H deliberately instigates play and then when the dog reacts the way that he always has done when H deliberately instigates play I don't understand why after nearly a year of this routine H suddenly takes an issue with it.
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I can tell you the probable reason why he suddenly took issue with it - because your dog bit him, it hurt and was unexpected, so H reacted to the pain. Whether it left a mark or not is irrelevant.

I cannot believe that as a responsible dog owner you allowed this situation to develop, knowing how you allow your dog to behave when 'play fighting' this sort of outcome was an accident waiting to happen..:o
 
Firstly, I really hope that your dog is OK.

Secondly, I think that it is irrelevant who started the rough play. Dogs should not bite, even if they are very gentle and don't mark the skin.
 
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