Really very angry...what do I do from here?

What a dreadful experience you have had!
I once went for an interview at a yard where the horses were all on full livery and everything was heavy handed :(
When I asked why I was told it was just the way
Needless to say I didn't take the job!
 
If they don't have the experience to handle youngsters then they shouldn't take them as a livery!

Was your horse even bitted before they decided to use a chiffeny on him?

Sorry but I would have done my nut! Move now even if it's to grass livery and get him away from these idiots before they completly ruin your youngster.
 
I think that the behaviour of the yard staff is completely out of order! I would try and move as soon as possible if it was me.

I am in a similar situation to you in that I work in a job with long and unpredictable hours. I have a youngster and am on a very small yard I found by word of mouth and he is looked after fantastically. It doesn't have many facilities but my horse is happy and to me that's more important. I think it would really be worth you asking around in tack shops, etc, to see if there are any small yards around which people would recommend.

The only yard I know of in your area is Shardeloes - I know someone who has a horse there and is happy with it.
 
I am gutted for you and your poor boy. It is awful.

This totally resonates with me as I work 50+ hours a week and have 3 young kids. I have also had a youngster this past year on part livery whilst doing ground work and then backing. I am lucky that it has worked fairly well and the staff were fab.

I would get out of there asap as these are potentially life changing events for your horse and after all your hard work how terrible.

Have you thought of sending him on training livery at a yard which backs and brings on young horses....they dont have to do the backing, but just being on livery at a yard like this means they will know how to handle him without hurting him...mentally or physically.

You could then visit at weekends and do your work with him. You need a yard that knows how to handle youngsters.

Can I also suggest you get a dually if you have not already. These are ideal for leading in and out of the field and act painlessly across the nose, with no pressure or bit in the mouth.

Let us know how things go. Good Luck
 
Sorry to hear this :( Haven't read replies so sorry if I just post what others say.

I can understand why you are angry. I would be fuming too. I'm not really sure what to say RE: shoving the chifney without disciplining him first if he was being naughty, but when you have a chance to try him with a bit again, I would use one of those relaly bendy rubber snaffles. That way they are light and he can chew it and have a play with it and it won't hurt him and therefore will give him confidence.

Hope you can get it sorted x
 
I would be going absolutely ape ***** if I were you. I posted about a similar problem at my yard with my youngster a couple of months back. Everyone on here agreed I needed to move yards. If only for the reason that the staff were behaving very unprofessionally and were obviously not suitably competent to handle youngstock, let alone the fact that I was paying good money to have my horse abused. MOVE pronto, if you can.

I have a very big, highly strung sports horse youngster and have been using one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280663804280&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT to lead her since she was a yearling. It's always kept us both safe; protecting her from ever getting away from me and me from getting 'jumped on'. These days (she's now rising 4) she doesn't play up in-hand, except when she's in raving season when she acts like a total maniac (and I have recently had to have a marble inserted to stop her having seasons, it's that bad) but I still use it when leading her on the road down to the fields.

If you are not able to relocate yards for whatever reason, maybe investing in something like the Mikmar halter and offering it as an alternative to the chifney, would be an idea? Much better than someone shoving a chifney into your horse's mouth; Especially if they're yanking on it and making the horse head shy and sore in his mouth. Yikes :eek::mad::mad:
 
I would move if you can but I understand it is not always possible. Could you and your friend move some where else and then employ a groom to deal with your horses, as then you can pick who handles your horses.
 
If it were me - I would be contacting JanetGeorge right now and getting her to take my youngster on for the next few months, meanwhile finding out a new yard for him/her to go too and his/her return and by hell would i be having my say with the yo once i had somewhere sorted out !
 
I would personally be putting a chiffney in the yards girls gobs to be honest, then give the lead the sharp tug when they wont understand!

How about trying a dually or something like that, so they more control but it wont hurt your horse so much if used incorrectly
 
I would be bloody furious!

You are PAYING for a service at the yard, they're not doing out of the kindness of their heart. They therefore are expected to provide that service.

If you genuinely cannot move then i'd be down talking to the YO asap, ideally with someone calm but authoritive if you think you're going to loose your rag. They are running a business and should behave professionally and take your complaint seriously.
 
Haha said:
Who's going to be breaking him in?? Can't he go there now?
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YO was going to. They break/produce horses and provide schooling livery. The idea of him being there was that he would be settled in an environment he knew and wouldn't be stressed at moving somewhere for a few weeks to be broken in etc.

Thought I was doing right by him. So no, he can't go to who was going to break him! My friend (who was going to ride him a few times a week for me once backed) doesn't have a yard where he could go; she has her own horses on another yard but they are full.

I don't know where JanetGeorge is based but will drop her a PM.

Thanks again for all replies.
 
Get your horse out of there asap! One of mine was handled poorly for her first few years, and was then sent somewhere for backing who did an even worse job - I bought her after that, had to totally re-start her, remove umpteen bad habits etc. Nearly a year later, she is still fearful and over-edgy in certain situations. Something that would not still be an issue with correct experiences from day one. :( Don't let someone do that to your horse!
 
so_confused said:
There isn't anywhere that I know of, this is the problem. I then also need to source another place to break him in. Any yard recommendations between High Wycombe and Aylesbury would be preferred. I am not in this area but it would make things easier if he could be kept in that area. I need part livery due to my hours, although hoping come September that I will be in a different job which will give me more time.
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I'd be asking YO to take more responsibility in the handling of a vulnerable young horse and should the Chifney need to be used then at least show handler how to fit and that rope must be clipped to ring on the bit AND to the headcollar.

He may have been playing up as he is aware that they are not as confident as you. The Chifney is probebly used to safeguard the handlers.

Maybe take aside the young people who are handling him and show them how to deal with him.
 
I think you have a right to be upset. However finding another yard is easier said than done as most yards will prefer to do what they see is the easy option rather spend time training someone else's horse. They may well say different when you go to visit but in reality they may take short cuts.

Yes your horse might be fine to lead with an experienced person but unless you are paying more for "schooling" livery then a lot of yards will not see it as their job to reprimand or train your horse so that is it easy for less confident and experienced handlers to turn out or handle on the ground.

They should however have told you there was a problem and that they were no longer willing to turnout him in the traditional manner of just using a head collar. At the that point it would probably have been useful for you to try and have found the time to go to the yard maybe at the weekend if you work during the weekend so you could witness your horses' behaviour when being turned out and how they were dealing with it so you were happy.

If the weekend staff are not experienced enough to deal with turning out horses that are not quiet then that should have been made clear to you so you could have made other arrangements.

In my experience talking to the YO/YM may not result in a change of behaviour as they probably believed that they were dealing with the situation in the best way that they can otherwise they would not have acted in this way.
 
The only thing you can do for now is have serious words with the YO, its not easy just upping sticks and moving because you'll no doubt have to give notice and still find somewhere else that your happy with and suitable for your youngster.
This is the sort of example that got a bee in my bonnet in Flames post the other day, people are too quick to use chiffneys on youngsters rather than putting in the work or confident handling and basically expecting a youngster to act like one.
I'd be so very annoyed but if its sorted now he'll be fine once its no longer used, the simple answer is that you insist its not used again on him and one person only is in charge of leading him, someone who your YO has agreed to along with yourself, in the meantime look around for somewhere else.
Good luck, your really do need lay the law down with your YO on this its just not acceptable.
 
depurple1 said:
I think that the behaviour of the yard staff is completely out of order! I would try and move as soon as possible if it was me.
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I would agree totally - but it's the fault of the Yard Manager who presumably allowed them to do it - or even recommended it!

I CANNOT understand this obsession with Chifneys! I use a Chifney on my BIG stallion when covering - that's all - because I need the extra control of his front end for his safety, and that of the mare. We lead bargy mares or bolshy colts in a bit with a link-up - and ours are big horses. To let inexperienced staff use a Chifney on someone else's youngster is unforgiveable IMHO. If a horse is THAT bad to lead then the most experienced person on the yard should give HIM leading lessons - and then teach the staff HOW to lead safely!
 
Never used a chifney in over 10 years of working with horses. Worked on a yard with jumpers and hunters.
Even the odd rearer we had was taught to lead reasonably well in a plain head collar.
 
But if the horse is not on schooling livery should it really be the responsibility of yard staff to be training a horse for free so that is it easy to lead? Surely the owner has some degree of responsibility too?

I do agree though that the owner should be informed immediately if there is problem so that they can work with the yard to come up with a solution and if that solution involves experienced people training the horse or it being only lead by more senior staff then the livery should be charged for that as that is beyond the normal part livery service.

JanetGeorge said:
If a horse is THAT bad to lead then the most experienced person on the yard should give HIM leading lessons - and then teach the staff HOW to lead safely!
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JanetGeorge said:
I would agree totally - but it's the fault of the Yard Manager who presumably allowed them to do it - or even recommended it!

If a horse is THAT bad to lead then the most experienced person on the yard should give HIM leading lessons - and then teach the staff HOW to lead safely!
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That is exactly it. They have been "ordered" to do it. He has never been a difficult horse, and it is literally within the last 3 months or so that the "problems" have started.

Kenzo - my dilemma at the moment, trying to organise alternatives!

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has posted with replies. I have been overwhelmed by the PM's offering help and support. I hope I will have something sorted and get my boy happy again. I turned him out today and after a few mins got him to walk alongside with his head down and more relaxed but he was still "beaky" with his mouth.

Many thanks once again, the support means an awful lot at a stressful time x
 
so_confused said:
That is exactly it. They have been "ordered" to do it. He has never been a difficult horse, and it is literally within the last 3 months or so that the "problems" have started.
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It's unbelievable that this was allowed when they WERE going to have to back him! The LAST thing any decent trainer wants is to have a horse to back who is frightened of the bit and almost certainly has a badly bruised mouth!

The only consolation is that they hadn't started backing him - no doubt he would have been put in tight side reins in the stable to 'mouth him'! (And yes, I have heard of idiot trainers doing this!)
 
SO1 said:
But if the horse is not on schooling livery should it really be the responsibility of yard staff to be training a horse for free so that is it easy to lead? Surely the owner has some degree of responsibility too?

I do agree though that the owner should be informed immediately if there is problem so that they can work with the yard to come up with a solution and if that solution involves experienced people training the horse or it being only lead by more senior staff then the livery should be charged for that as that is beyond the normal part livery service.
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My horse didn't have a problem - I didn't bring him there as a problem horse. This has developed in the last 3 months or so. The problem is, the handlers are not experienced or competent with anything other than a plod. Yet the yard advertise being able to take on problem horses...I expect the people to handle my horse to be capable and like anyone used to working with youngsters, to expect a few ups and downs as you can have with youngsters. I don;t expect to have him mishandled and leaving me with a bigger problem. I have also made a point of telling them previously to make sure the people who handle him are confident and used to handling youngsters because I didn't want anyone less confident and inexperienced handling him.. This, I thought, was sensible as why would you let an inexperienced handler handle a youngster?

How can I ask them to train him through a problem if they don't tell me about it to begin with? I understand the angle you are coming fro e.g. it is not up to farriers to train horses to be good with feet etc, however, my boy DID NOT have any issues before coming here and has not been a problem horse.

He was due to begin training with them for backing, which I was going to be paying double what I pay at the moment to be done properly etc.
 
Simple solution IMO: get the hell outa there PDQ and find somewhere else.

IF your youngster needed "controlling", there are ways of doing it without bunging in a chifney, they could have used a training halti or something?

Now you've got the difficulty of sorting out a problem which is someone else's making. Personally I'd be inclined to find a good schooling yard which is experienced at dealing with young horses, and put your youngster there for a bit just to hopefully remedy some of what's happened (not easy) and give him a bit of confidence - you're gonna have a nervous wreck if you leave him where he is. Awful!
 
I find it hard to believe that a properly handled horse would need this kind of treatment.

It sounds like the staff do not have much experience or confidence. This is taking a short cut. In the end the responsibility has to come back to the yard owner. There is no way they should do something like this without communicating to you that they feel there is a problem and discussing the solution/s.

I had two youngsters I bred my self and with no experience myself with foals, but some good advice from a NH horseman, I had no issues handling them.

I am sure I could have provoked a response though, or that they would have taken advantage of me if I had appeared timid or not confident.
 
I feel for you. I would be apoplectic. The very least they should have done is told you they were having problems leading. Sounds like they have overreacted to one issue (maybe he played about one day) and then made the situation worse by using the chiffney. I dont think you have much choice other than move him. A friend of mine has just had her youngster backed at Tom graham's yard in oxfordshire so you could try that as reasonably near to you - she has ridden GP so assume she wouldnt send her youngster to a numpty ! She herself has a yard nearer to you but I dont think she backs and breaks but she does produce youngsters.
 
Personlay i dont think moving yards is the right thing to do. Firstly you cant ensure that the same thing wont happen again, and secondly if your horse is settled (bar the extreamly bad treatment) the he might be set back even more when moving.

I moved my youngster to a very highly respected, nationaly well known yard with very experinced grooms, YO owners etc, to find out that after id turned my horse out in the morning, for some reason they brought her back in around 10am, this is not the problem but that fact that they removed her water and hay and left her there all day...

I noticed that when i went back down around 6pm she was very hungry and thirsty so added another net and water bucket at night. YO complained to me that i was feeding my horse too much (4 nets for a 17.2hh WB) and from now on they would restrict her nets at night. Meanwhile shes loosing weight im buying lots fo hard feed and reworming etc

It was only when a neighbour asked why she was only out for a hour or so a day that it twigged boy i was sooooooooo angry, i freaked out. Needless to say i will never move my horses there, i will never compete BSJA again there.

Personaly id stay at your yard and put him on DIY then pay someone you trust to look after him, or perhaps find a sharer thats good with babies. This way he will only ever be handled by you and one other, so will will be better for it.
 
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