Rearers - pulling them over

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moneypit1

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I have had several rearers in my 40 odd years with horses and I can honestly say I have never been tempted to 'pull them over'. I have found that in the majority of cases the rearing is due to insecurity plain and simple. I have dealt with it in two main ways, one pure avoidance and the second once the rear has occured drive the horse forward. A couple of people I know deliberately pull the horse over, one even doing it whilst on board! The other did it whilst the horse was on long lines. I just cannot see what the gain is. Both their arguments were that the horse would realise that it hurts when it rears. I cannot agree with that statement as I do not think horses think in that way. Rearing is a default reaction that is often done I think without a concious thought process, it is part and parcel of the flee response. Please add your views and experiences as rearing is something I am particularly interested in. thankies!
 
Totally agree, my Hanovarian constantly reared when I broke her in, especially when you tried to get her into the lorry, thank you Kelly Marks and she is still self loading today. Fortunately one day she went bolt upright and I managed to punch her between the ears, since that day she has never reared again. I have a TB on my yard at the moment who is going through a similar thing but only when you lead her in hand, unfortunately she also did it recently with the blacksmith as she had had a bad experience with a blacksmith the time before, she kept rearing, so put a chiffney in, then she settled, just as the blacksmith was finishing she did it again and pulled away from me, staggered backwards and ended up on the floor and banged her head on the telegraph pole. Then last week she jumped out of her field and when I tried to lead her back past our cows she started doing it again, so someone went and got another pony and she followed it past with no problems. Hate to see horses on the floor as agree they don't learn from it, you just need to reassure them and its a confidence thing. Thankfully I have not had many rearers in 35 years of owning horses.
 
Couldn't agree more with you Moneypit. Years ago a pony at a riding school went through a phase of rearing. Not good in any circumstances but especially not at a riding school as you can appreciate. Turned out that he had a brain tumour.
Had he been pulled over during the process of rearing who knows what could have happened next?
 
I had a mare who used to rear to knap, whether it was out hacking or jumping. I used to just drive her forward, even if it meant cantering down the road and she near enough stopped doing it, it was just an evasion tactic. I would never pull one over especially whilst I'm on it!!!
 
Knap???!!!!
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I think rearind starts as a response to pain or frustration but becomes a bad habit as a way to evade even when the pain / frustration is long gone. Horses can be quick learners and suss out that rearing usually means end of working, which puts an end to the pain or the doing something they dont want to.

I had a 'little' rearer who did it as evasion when she wanted to move forward. Ask her to stand on a hack and up she would go. I have to say I would never consider pulling a horse over. 1) its dangerous - who know what injuries would be inflicted and 2) the horse may associate the pulling over with the rider/handler therefore rider/handler = pain, rather than rear = pain which is not the association that is needed.

Usually I would say the horse needs to be driven on but in the case of my old mare who wanted to be driven on I would drive on and then turn immediately and stand again
 
Many years ago a dear friend was killed when she got on someone elses horse which was rearing on a road. The horse went over backwards crushing her.
 
Even if it was a guaranteed 'cure' for rearing I have no idea why anyone would risk their life by pulling a rearing horse over while on board. Madness.
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The only method I know was if you can when the horse is in mid rear, to smack them in between the ears, and ideally have an egg and smack that in between the ears. The smack and then the sensation of the egg yolk running down their face is meant to make them think they have hit their head and its bleeding.
 
I know of an AI who pulled a horse over when it was rearing & refusing to load. it fractured its skull & had to be PTS. It was a baby & scared, so was rearing aginst a whip being used on it. Very sad
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The only method I know was if you can when the horse is in mid rear, to smack them in between the ears, and ideally have an egg and smack that in between the ears. The smack and then the sensation of the egg yolk running down their face is meant to make them think they have hit their head and its bleeding.

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They tend to use bottles of water here - glass ones
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I don't think its a good idea either. My last horse was a rearer, very nappy as he was never really confident on his own. He grew up (as a 3-4 year old) as a hireling hunter (before I had him I hasten to add) and I think he just never liked going anywhere by himself.

He would go into an sj arena, jump the first two fences (which are generally for some reason going towards the collecting arena?) and then refuse to go over the third by standing on his back legs. This was on the days I could get into the arena, some days I withdrew as he would not go near the fence in the warm up. He was always impeccably behaved when jumping at home!

I sold him to someone (after 5 years of owning him) who I admit perhaps wasn't suitable, so he was sold on. But last I heard he was in a hunting home, which was all he ever liked anyway
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My horse (16.3hh tb gelding) rears, not all the time, i find it hard to think of anything when this is happening, its easier said than done when it comes to trying to discipline him up in the air, he goes up vertical aswell, so there i am clinging on for dear life lol worried he may fall backwards ontop of me!! but as soon as he is down i pull one rein and get him turning and moving forward again straight away.

a friend of a friend pulls them down to the ground when they are rearing though. she claims 'it works and they never do it again'.
 
My old section D would rear out of pure excitement. If he couldn't go forward, he had too much energy to keep still and would simply have to go up. We used to have to go into showjumping rings backwards and then stand with our backs to the first fence until the bell rang to avoid it getting too silly, and pony club banned us from gymkhana for the safety of other competitors as he would dance into them on two legs! It was always quite controlled though and he never went so high that he would go over. In a strange way I quite enjoyed it as it never felt dangerous and it meant he was raring to go and was loving what he was doing at the time. I'm not sure I'd be happy with another horse doing it for less positive reasons though and would never dream of pulling a rearer over.
 
One of my mares reared and came over on me,,, it hasn't put her off, she still rears (or rather, tries to). Admittedly she only does little ones now, but I think that is mainly because I've learnt how to deal with it. I use both avoidance tactics - she rears through impatience, can't stand hanging around so I always keep her moving when I feel her "bubbling up"
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I also ride her forward if she starts to go up.

Would never pull a horse over,,, completely bloody insane
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not the egg story again!
everyone always bangs on about this!
I want video proof that this has actually been done, I think its a myth.
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I would say my horse is a rearer, because he will rear if put in the 'right' situation. We went through a phase lasting for about the first 18 months that I had him where he reared with me and the rearing was getting worse and worse, to the point where I couldn't hack out at all, I couldn't take him out anywhere, I couldn't ride in the school in the end because he would nap and rear and scare me.

I then met someone through working on a yard at the weekends who gave me advice and I moved my horse to her yard - after a few months of instructiona and advice we have managed to sort it and he hasn't reared for about 8 months now
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It was hard work but well worth it
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My horse used to rear as frequently and one time he went right up and came over. Thank god i landed the opposite direction to him. He was quite clearly shaken by the incident, as was I. Thereafter he never went right up again and gradually stopped even his half rears. I am not for one moment encouraging pulling a horse over as it's v dangerous for both horse and rider. What I am saying though is that for my particular boy, it put him off ever doing it again.
 
I really cant see any advantage of pulling a horse over, its just too risky for both horse and rider. i have a horse that started out rearing because he was a bag of nerves, i would just remain calm and drive him forwards. he has pretty much stopped it now, but will sometimes do it when avoiding work or if he is excited in which case (as he is no longer nervous) i will give him a quick snack on the head with a whip! i think its all about knowing your horse, being able to anticipate it and stop it before it happens comes with time and experience together.
 
I went to a Monty Roberts demo once and he said the egg thing doesn't work (they instinctively know if they've got room to rear or not) and that what you should do is use a long soft rope and hit their bellies with it while they're up. This is because their bellies are their weakest points in terms of predators (snakes are one of their biggest predators in the wild so their underside is far more vulnerable than their heads/throats). If they're exposing it by rearing and it gets 'attacked' (I don't mean you should beat them, I mean attacked in the sense that a snake would go for them) they won't want to put themselves in a position to allow it to be attacked again. I'm not claiming this is the definitive way to do it at all, but the demo horse was a rearer and it seemed to stop her, and he seems to have been right about most other things!
 
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what you should do is use a long soft rope and hit their bellies with it while they're up.

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I have also heard that, I suppose the rope is for when your actually on them and they rear, when my boy does it whilst im leading him i use a whip
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i will go against the grain here and say i have seen pulling a horse over work.

you don't pull them when they are bolt upright, it is just as their feet leave the floor. most don't fall over but just lose their balance which can be enough to scare them into not rearing.

i had a little horse once who wasn't scared but one day got very cocky about going through a gate and kept trying to canter through it sideways instead of walk.
the gate was being held wide open by my trainer and he had been through it before but that day he wouldn't walk through normally.
i gave him a loose rein and tried to just direct him with my legs but he wouldn't have any of it.

after about 20 minutes he had progressed to little 'hops' and mini rears.
on one of these i opened my right hand to stop him going up and the horse managed to cross his legs and fell onto his side.
while he was on the floor i slid off, let him up and then got back on him.
and he walked through the gate like a little lamb and after that i never had any issue with him at all.
before that he always had a half hearted 'but' about everything you asked him but since that day he was 100% on side and a joy to ride.
 
Like a lot of other problems with horses, I believe in pevention before cure, and that in a lot of cases (not all) the horse rears because its person has not seen and responded in a positive manner to the horse's emotions: often fear, sometimes excitement.

Cure by deliberately causing a situation where the horse and/or rider is likely to be seriously hurt... are you mad??
 
My mare used to rear for England as part of her nap!! Driving forward was not really going to happen, she used to choose a spot where there was nothing i could do, next to a pond/car or under the overhang of the stables.
She has come over once or twice, on the lunge usually, once into a ditch with me on top!!
We have decreased the rearing as such, she still naps but now just launches in the air and bucks.
Method to stop her, a few well aimed wallops between the ears or on the neck.
She has been over properly once, when on long reins, result, broken withers!! We were lucky though could have been much worse and she is fine now.
 
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Call me old fashioned, but when I had a rearer, I dealt with the cause. He had separation anxiety and reared when leaving the field alone or out on a hack if being turned away from home. Building up his confidence meant that his rearing lessened and then stopped whilst he was with me.

For once, I agree with Monty re: the eggs. Anyone that can carry an egg unbroken in their hand and ride a rearer one handed is surely far too intelligent to need the egg in the first place.
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the egg trick - or a bag of water I was told.. have you ever tried riding round holding a bag of water waiting for the blooming horse to rear.. I have and got soaked and the horse didnt rear.. damn.. i thought it was a load of bulloney..

I found riding him forward worked and growling at him,. I spent about 3 months riding round the village growling. People must have thought me mad. but thats another post!!!
 
Hi

I am really quite worried about some of what is being said here. If a prey species is rearing amongst us predators, it is not because he is ‘domineering’, ‘cocky’ or any other such anthropomorphism, it is simply because something in his environment is causing fear and a desire to escape. For this reason we need to take some time to think…

What may be causing the behaviour?
What can we do to resolve this issue for good?

If a horse does feel the need to rear it should not be ridden until issues are resolved, putting in the groundwork to ensure the horse is happy and therefore safe in whatever situation is thrown his way.

By hitting the belly, head, or pulling them over, we are simply confirming to the horse that indeed this situation is to be feared. This is why such methods sometimes work because it completely suppresses a horse, or for the stronger individuals, just exaggerates the problem and puts others in further danger.

Please do not be influenced by folk law or popular 'alternative' styles that encourage this, it is dangerous. With the vast amount of research that has been done on equine training over the years, us intelligent humans need to be reading and developing more effective and humane practises.

If you want any reading I will be happy to give references, thanks

Katie

www.animalminds.co.uk
 
I have done it before but only without stirrups so i can get off if needs be but i would only do it if a horse reared vertical my ex-racer TB used to rear for england, she hit the ground once and has never done it again
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And here is some reading re the physiologically damaging responses that this tactic has on health and welfare...

Hall et al (2008) Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science, Vol.11, No.3, pp.249-266

Waran, McGreevy and Casey (2002) Animal Welfare: The Welfare of Horses, Springer Netherlands

Seligman, M.E.P. and Hager, J. (1972) Biological Boundaries of Learning. New York: Appleton-Century-Crofts

Beck, A. (1976) Cognitive Therapy and the Emotional Disorders, International Universities Press, United States

Carlson, N. (1998) Physiology of Behaviour: Sixth Edition, Allyn and Bacon, United States

There is much more for those who would like it, just ask.

Thanks

Katie

www.animalminds.co.uk
 
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