Rearing 5 year old ex race horse :/

Rearing is not a nice thing and is NOT to do with the fact that he has been in training and is an ex racehorse. I've worked with hundreds of them over the years and in general there are only a few that do this. To date they have all been PTS. Rearing is dangerous for both of you. A friends mother now has a catheter bag as her ex racer reared over backwards, landing on her, breaking all four corners of her pelvis off and rupturing her bladder.

If you are determined to keep him then first get the chiro out to look at him - just in case he has been over backwards in the past.

Have teeth carefully looked at - even if only recently done.

If you are using a flash, change it to a drop.

Have a more experienced rider hop on him and give you an assesment of him.

Look at your schooling programme - and ask yourself if you are asking too much of him.

Remove the de Gogue - yes they can help but if his muscles are not ready for the outline you are after he may be in pain.

Tone down your schooling program.

Work him on the lunge for a few weeks to help in building up the correct muscles and to become more obedient to your voice.

Lunge him before you ride and see if you can gauge his possible behaviour for the day

TBH if it is possible to return him then I would - there are plenty more better behaved horses out there.
 
Keeky said:
Thanks for your commentt :)
Won't use the de gogue until he settles and is working forward, it was literally to tell him he can relax his head down! Only used it today to lunge in and then 5 minutes to ride and he was a star!:)
You have any videos of yourss?:)
I always pick up techniques off people with ex race horses like on youtube etc :D
Like KREquestrian her youtube is literally of just bringing on thoroughbreds, amazing!
She's always so helpful too:)xx
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It's my sister on board, her horse. She was 15 when she got him and her youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/SomethingsUp55) charts her time with Reg. She sticks with having weekly lessons (rather that than compete more!) with someone with a lot of experience and an amazing knack of knowing exactly how teach what's in front of her. If someone who'd never seen him gave her advice, I think she'd ignore it mostly, as they have o idea of what's going on behind the scenes...
 
Ok people! As amusing as it has been your all getting FAR too touchy and personal! There is absolutely no need for name calling! If you don't like what someone says then discard it and don't bother reading it. Simples!
 
digitalangel said:
to the OP

why do you take on board "recommendations" from person X, Y and Z some of which havent seen your horse, yet if other HHO'ers "recommend" that perhaps the de gogue is causing the problem is is "critisism"?

See, the thing is, you came here asking for help, and it was given, but you dont like what you hear. I sympathise with you, i really do - ive been there, and you dont want to encourage the rearing because it is dangerous.

The logical answer is to subtract everything and take it back to its minimal configuration - horse, saddle, bridle, rider. Just walk for 10 minutes in the school and concentrate on getting the horse relaxed. Hacking is a good way to chill a horse, if that works for him.
Chilled out horses dont rear.

Speaking from experience, as i am sure a lot of people are.

Also, it is just the internet. Please dont take it too much to heart. But beware when you portst on the internet asking for advice, then you will get it.
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You're right :/ I suppose I am ridiculously stubborn when it comes to people putting it bluntly! I get a little edgy for some reason hahaha!
Yeahhh, what even no martingale? Just complete basics?
There are so many reasons to why he could be doing it though!?
He's been in work for a year AFTER having 6 months off, I don't understand what it could be!
He was a star today though so it's hot and cold but then thats what you have to expect with these horses I guess!
Yeahh he was squealing too like he doesn't properly rear it's more the beginning of it, he goes up but it's not like WOAH THAT HORSE IS MENTAL kind of thing!? SO had the de gogue on for 5 10 minutes today and he was fine, took them off and he stayed fine!
It does sound fair to start him again, he has so much time!!
Do you have a youtube?
 
And you can stop a horse rearing by doing What 99% of the people have suggested. That was the original post. How do You stop the rearing:
1)take off the de gouge
2) work on getting your horse relaxed and accepting the aids
3) use hacking to teach him to relax and stretch
4) work him on the Lunge in correctly fitting side reins
5) work on the quality of the paces and the development of suppleness and forget the outline until this is established
6( understand That to develop the muscles and retrain him takes months not weeks
7) get a Good trainer
8) taking advice from a shop assistant is just daft!
 
charlie76 said:
And you can stop a horse rearing by doing What 99% of the people have suggested. That was the original post. How do You stop the rearing:
1)take off the de gouge
2) work on getting your horse relaxed and accepting the aids
3) use hacking to teach him to relax and stretch
4) work him on the Lunge in correctly fitting side reins
5) work on the quality of the paces and the development of suppleness and forget the outline until this is established
6( understand That to develop the muscles and retrain him takes months not weeks
7) get a Good trainer
8) taking advice from a shop assistant is just daft!
Click to expand...


OMG FINALLLLLLLLLY!
THANK YOUUUU!!XX
 
olivia_deane said:
gees, wish everyone wouldn't jump on the "she's not capable" band wagon!! There is a difference between sounds advice, encouragement and "OH MY GOD, A DE GOGUE SHE'S CRUEL, SHE'S RUSHING THINGS, OH MY GOD SAVE THAT HORSE"... cause guys, she just wanted some ideas!!.. she's obviously pretty prepared for what to expect, and if shes not shes on here aksing, trying to do her best, both horse and rider will learn with time, and the horse isn't going to break in the interim...

rant over... phew... just actually wanted to post a funny video of my tb when i first bought him that you made me thik of when you said jump all trotting poles at once :P... you only need watch the first ten secs :P... PS ignore riding!! haha i learnt with him (and nope... he didnt break)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGcTC4ZrDZM
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Just watched your vidoe and thinking poor wee horse - your hands are terrible! - everytime he jumps big you catch him in the mouth. Why are you trying to do three poles in a row when he is obviously not happy with them? Why are you trying to jump show jumps that are far bigger than he is ready for? No wonder he is running out and stopping?

Next time you train/retrain a young horse. individual poles scattered around the arena until he will walk and trot over each without a fuss. Then add another at least 2.7m away so that he can get a full trot stride between. If you can't keep with him please use a neck strap!

The OP is being a bit of a madam - she asked for help and we gave it. The de Gogue is fine if the horse is introduced to it slowly. Iretrained 100's of TB's and they are generally very smart but don't tend to like being bombarded with information.
 
Evelyn said:
Rearing is not a nice thing and is NOT to do with the fact that he has been in training and is an ex racehorse. I've worked with hundreds of them over the years and in general there are only a few that do this. To date they have all been PTS. Rearing is dangerous for both of you. A friends mother now has a catheter bag as her ex racer reared over backwards, landing on her, breaking all four corners of her pelvis off and rupturing her bladder.

If you are determined to keep him then first get the chiro out to look at him - just in case he has been over backwards in the past.

Have teeth carefully looked at - even if only recently done.

If you are using a flash, change it to a drop.

Have a more experienced rider hop on him and give you an assesment of him.

Look at your schooling programme - and ask yourself if you are asking too much of him.

Remove the de Gogue - yes they can help but if his muscles are not ready for the outline you are after he may be in pain.

Tone down your schooling program.

Work him on the lunge for a few weeks to help in building up the correct muscles and to become more obedient to your voice.

Lunge him before you ride and see if you can gauge his possible behaviour for the day

TBH if it is possible to return him then I would - there are plenty more better behaved horses out there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your advise :)
It's not dangerous rearing but as I'm only 16 and not had as much experience as most in this forum, I can't risk him getting to dangerous! I'm already attached to him :( but saftey is paramount!
Will definately take the de gogue off before my head gets ripped off haha!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie76 View Post
And you can stop a horse rearing by doing What 99% of the people have suggested. That was the original post. How do You stop the rearing:
1)take off the de gouge
2) work on getting your horse relaxed and accepting the aids
3) use hacking to teach him to relax and stretch
4) work him on the Lunge in correctly fitting side reins
5) work on the quality of the paces and the development of suppleness and forget the outline until this is established
6( understand That to develop the muscles and retrain him takes months not weeks
7) get a Good trainer
8) taking advice from a shop assistant is just daft!

OMG FINALLLLLLLLLY!
THANK YOUUUU!!XX

Keeky - this is exactly what EVERYONE has been telling you all through this post. Please do the right thing and apologise to those that you were rude to.

The advice you have been given here has mostly been excellent. The above 8 points you should have been able to understand from just about every post.
 
Evelyn said:
Just watched your vidoe and thinking poor wee horse - your hands are terrible! - everytime he jumps big you catch him in the mouth. Why are you trying to do three poles in a row when he is obviously not happy with them? Why are you trying to jump show jumps that are far bigger than he is ready for? No wonder he is running out and stopping?

Next time you train/retrain a young horse. individual poles scattered around the arena until he will walk and trot over each without a fuss. Then add another at least 2.7m away so that he can get a full trot stride between. If you can't keep with him please use a neck strap!

The OP is being a bit of a madam - she asked for help and we gave it. The de Gogue is fine if the horse is introduced to it slowly. Iretrained 100's of TB's and they are generally very smart but don't tend to like being bombarded with information.
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I am indeed a bit of a madam :) Atleast you put it into kinder words than some!
Yeahh it's been on the losest one possible! Then put onto the second ring today for about 5 or 10 minutes! He's been finee! He was ridiculously spooky when he was rearing anyway which may be the answer but it could be anything really!
 
Evelyn said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie76 View Post
And you can stop a horse rearing by doing What 99% of the people have suggested. That was the original post. How do You stop the rearing:
1)take off the de gouge
2) work on getting your horse relaxed and accepting the aids
3) use hacking to teach him to relax and stretch
4) work him on the Lunge in correctly fitting side reins
5) work on the quality of the paces and the development of suppleness and forget the outline until this is established
6( understand That to develop the muscles and retrain him takes months not weeks
7) get a Good trainer
8) taking advice from a shop assistant is just daft!

OMG FINALLLLLLLLLY!
THANK YOUUUU!!XX

Keeky - this is exactly what EVERYONE has been telling you all through this post. Please do the right thing and apologise to those that you were rude to.

The advice you have been given here has mostly been excellent. The above 8 points you should have been able to understand from just about every post.
Click to expand...

Sorry everyone -_- I get very stroppy and don't like being told bluntly as you can tell!
Ignore all the nasty words I've written to you all :/ Don't have to accept my appology.
 
Evelyn said:
Just watched your vidoe and thinking poor wee horse - your hands are terrible! - everytime he jumps big you catch him in the mouth. Why are you trying to do three poles in a row when he is obviously not happy with them? Why are you trying to jump show jumps that are far bigger than he is ready for? No wonder he is running out and stopping?

Next time you train/retrain a young horse. individual poles scattered around the arena until he will walk and trot over each without a fuss. Then add another at least 2.7m away so that he can get a full trot stride between. If you can't keep with him please use a neck strap!

The OP is being a bit of a madam - she asked for help and we gave it. The de Gogue is fine if the horse is introduced to it slowly. Iretrained 100's of TB's and they are generally very smart but don't tend to like being bombarded with information.
Click to expand...

But that is one amazing horse now :/ You can't tell by a video and you can't tell how hard the ride is until you've sat on it and it looks a LOTT harder and jumps a lot higher in the air than mine :/ & sometims its hard to control what your hands are doing when the horse is leaping in the air..
JUS SAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYIN
 
It is difficult to understand why such experts have ANY problems with their horses, and as they know all the answers to their own questions so why do they post, if it is to impress us with their brilliant handling abilities with "difficult" horses , once again they have "failed to impress"
 
MrsD123 said:
It is difficult to understand why such experts have ANY problems with their horses, and as they know all the answers to their own questions so why do they post, if it is to impress us with their brilliant handling abilities with "difficult" horses , once again they have "failed to impress"
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ohhh another one -_-
Everyone else is over it! Why start it over again?
 
Education Education Education, the taxpayers free gift to motherhood, just the same at least it keeps them out of the workplace till they mature at about 25 years of age, assuming they are not trailing a line of kiddies behind them by then.
 
Keeky said:
You all need to calm it a bit, everytime I ride, a friend that just sold her retrained ex race horse helps me & everyone has sworn by the de gogue you can't really comment on that gadget yourselves until you actually know what it does tbh! Just like you can't comment on why my horse is behaving this way:/ Simply asked how to stop him. He was fine the today in them and the other time we used them which was the first time, yesterday was because some idiot was cantering round and round past my wound up 5 year old!
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Hey well done! Funniest "Asking for advice and then ranting over getting it" post ever!
 
MrsD123 said:
It is difficult to understand why such experts have ANY problems with their horses, and as they know all the answers to their own questions so why do they post, if it is to impress us with their brilliant handling abilities with "difficult" horses , once again they have "failed to impress"
Click to expand...

Experts can and do have problems with their horses. I used to ride with a famous dressage rider (competes internationally) and one of that rider's horses started rearing. A standing martingale was put on to prevent him from rearing as initially he was just doing little bunny hops (maybe what Keeky is describing). Unfortunately the fact that he was wearing a gadget that had no give in it meant that when he reared really high he couldn't use his neck to balance himself and went over. The rider was fine, the horse broke his neck. He survived only as a pasture ornament.
Shortly afterwards my horse started rearing (turned out to be due to pain) and I put a standing martingale on (as advised by my friends, I was in my teens). Almost immediately the dressage rider came and removed it for me, repeating pretty much all the advice given in this thread about simple tack and getting them freely moving forward, teeth and back checks and regaining their confidence. Putting any gadget that you can't release on a rearer is a danger because if they ever go high (and you don't know when that is going to happen, it wasn't a gradual thing with either the dressage horse or my horse) you need their head and neck to be completely free to give them the best chance of coming down safely.
 
Keeky said:
But that is one amazing horse now :/ You can't tell by a video and you can't tell how hard the ride is until you've sat on it and it looks a LOTT harder and jumps a lot higher in the air than mine :/ & sometims its hard to control what your hands are doing when the horse is leaping in the air..
JUS SAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYIN
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If I couldn't control what my hands were doing I would be riding in a rope hackamore not a bit and I would have a neckstrap on. Never forget that your horse's mouth is at the other end of your reins.
 
Keeky said:
A teacher on the yard is telling me to send him back but what do you expect in an ex race horse? Especially at the age of 5. He has the SWEETEST personality too!
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Some ex-racers are confirmed rearers - believe me, I've had a few! but it's not a NORMAL behaviour in an ex-racehorse! He CAN be cured - if you have enough experience - and patience - but it's a long job and chances are that - even when you think you've 'won' - he will revert at any occasion he is put under enough pressure (or if you put a less experienced rider on him.)

So you have to decide if you WANT to spend weeks/months/years coping with this behaviour. And whether you have the patience (and the guts) to cope with the rearing in the meantime!

I gather there's a video but haven't had a chance yet to look at it - or read the many responses. Will try to do that later.
 
Have you even worked with an ex racer.... Thay arent babies so you cant wait untill baby is out of him like you said and you cant treat them like normal horses, you have to be sooo sensitive and understanding and quick above all, if you feel him tightening or getting anxious take away the scary situation/thing thats upsetting him and gradually introduce it and DO NOT put any gadget on untill you can get 20m circles, balanced canters and a calm and responsive horse. Im assuming you have never seen a horse flip over? Rear up so far that it falls back and snaps its back?...... I have and it was because of gadgets. I dont use a gadget or anything. Untill they have been out of racing a GOOD year or longer to let their brains have a rest and then they have to be going nicely for atleast a year. Racers cant be rushed and be prepared for the odd rear when in the future you present a scary obsticle or something new.
if you have any questions just ask, I have ex racers and also rehabilitate them.
ps. Look at my name ;-)
 
ex racer rider said:
Have you even worked with an ex racer.... Thay arent babies so you cant wait untill baby is out of him like you said and you cant treat them like normal horses, you have to be sooo sensitive and understanding and quick above all, if you feel him tightening or getting anxious take away the scary situation/thing thats upsetting him and gradually introduce it and DO NOT put any gadget on untill you can get 20m circles, balanced canters and a calm and responsive horse. Im assuming you have never seen a horse flip over? Rear up so far that it falls back and snaps its back?...... I have and it was because of gadgets. I dont use a gadget or anything. Untill they have been out of racing a GOOD year or longer to let their brains have a rest and then they have to be going nicely for atleast a year. Racers cant be rushed and be prepared for the odd rear when in the future you present a scary obsticle or something new.
if you have any questions just ask, I have ex racers and also rehabilitate them.
ps. Look at my name ;-)
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Well said! Too many people pick up a ' cheap' ex racehorse and think they can turn them into ' normal ' horses in a space of a few months. Some horses are better equipt for a new life than others. Racehorses are taught to go fast and in straight lines. They do not understand stand, collection or circles etc!

I have owned horses for over 35 years and find that SOME of the younger generation of horse owners think they know it all after riding or horse owning for a very short period of time. All they want is a quick fix and to compete the horse into the ground. They take on horses far above their experience and then wonder why they have so many problems.

Sorry but this OP got my back up right from the first few sentences!
 
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Actually after reading all of the previous comments I resind my comment, it seems to me that you have no regard for your horse and when faced with people with more experience and more knowledge who try and HELP you you throw it back in their faces. People like you are the reason why racers get a bad name so send it back or as people used to say once it rears get off, stay off and ring the kennels..... Because frankly it would be nicer for the poor bloody horse if it did go to the kennels rather than being with you
 
As another first time ex-racer owner my advice is time time time and more time ! Mine came off the track was turned away for 6 months. I led her in hand round the village and woods for a few months, many bruised toes to show for it ! Lunged for a month or so until I got on her again. I had lessons straight from the word go, as many as finances would allow. She went up with me once - I was asking to much and she scared the life out of me. She tried it a second time but as soon as I felt her go I pulled her sharply to the left and she's never done it since.

She was very bolshy and argumentative but I eventually realised that this was because she was insecure so completely changed my way of handling her. I'm not a dominant, shouty person by anymeans but I have to stop and think for a split second before I respond to her actions.

I changed my instructor as she doesn't like men even tho I've had that instructor for years and almost every person on this forum will of heard of him, he wasn't right for her.
5 years down the line I have a beautiful loving horse that I can hunt on the weekend and dressage on the tuesday (done so quite a few times). Can lead out youngsters, canter up the woods and stop by using my voice only etc etc. She's got me to Hickstead for the last 2 years in the ROR finals, something I could only dreamt of before.

The only gadget I've ever used is a pessoa for lunging. I'm not a pro rider, far from it so just give both of yourselves time and as you say you've got a year off so use it wisely and good luck.
 
carefreegirl said:
As another first time ex-racer owner my advice is time time time and more time ! Mine came off the track was turned away for 6 months. I led her in hand round the village and woods for a few months, many bruised toes to show for it ! Lunged for a month or so until I got on her again. I had lessons straight from the word go, as many as finances would allow. She went up with me once - I was asking to much and she scared the life out of me. She tried it a second time but as soon as I felt her go I pulled her sharply to the left and she's never done it since.

She was very bolshy and argumentative but I eventually realised that this was because she was insecure so completely changed my way of handling her. I'm not a dominant, shouty person by anymeans but I have to stop and think for a split second before I respond to her actions.

I changed my instructor as she doesn't like men even tho I've had that instructor for years and almost every person on this forum will of heard of him, he wasn't right for her.
5 years down the line I have a beautiful loving horse that I can hunt on the weekend and dressage on the tuesday (done so quite a few times). Can lead out youngsters, canter up the woods and stop by using my voice only etc etc. She's got me to Hickstead for the last 2 years in the ROR finals, something I could only dreamt of before.

The only gadget I've ever used is a pessoa for lunging. I'm not a pro rider, far from it so just give both of yourselves time and as you say you've got a year off so use it wisely and good luck.
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Great post. Well done you for having the time, care and understanding to help your horse progress confidently and correctly.
 
If the gadget was recommended by his old owners then they didn't spend the time to work with him. Also a livery yard is completely different to a race yard so he has to learn how to fitt in and behave and take in all the new stimuli.

My sisters ex-racer went up with her and a friend, turned out his saddle was pinching him and too long for his back, he is 16'2hh but has a very small rib cage, he had his back done every few week and a massage every other week. untill he got a new saddle and he now goes lovely.
Even if he has just been hacking for a year he still isn't developing the right muscles, when you put gadgets on them they need to be able to have stronger muscles to cope with it.

Do lots of in hand work to encourage him to lower his head and stretch his top line, when we walk in from the feild i give take with the lead rope when the Donkey has his head up untill he lowers it then we have a pat and the pressure/release comes off. You can also to stretching exersises inhis stable to help build up flexabilty.

All things like that will help.

Also lots of lunge work to encourage him to work from behind and learn to balance, side reins and a pessoa on a very lose setting can help with this. Withe the pessoa only start in walk once you have warmed up for 15-20 mins and gradually increase to trot.

You don't need to worry about were his head is atm as having an outline means nothing if your horses isn't balanced and forward going, he will eventually learn to drop when he has the balance and muscle strenght to cope with it.

Our ex-race spent 9 nears in racing, had a year in a paddock then went to the TRC up in lancaster had three months retraining there and then we got him on loan last oct, he has been great and learns really fast, but what we have learnt is little and often, 10 minutes of great work in walk is far better than half an hour or more of bad walk, trot and canter.

You need to build up the good experiances slowly and remember they never really are ex-racers, they were born and bred to race, it has been trained in them right from the begining, we are asking them to learn something different but at the end of the day in there minds they are still race horses.


Give him time and take him right back to basics and you will have a cracker of a horse.


xxxxx
 
It's lively on here tonight dare I wade in . I might carefully lunge in the degogue ( don't use them my self) but the horse needs to be confident in what's it's being asked to I would be hacking out in company then going into the school when you get back and just patting him walking round and making it all very low key and easy.
The best thing for a rearing horse is good hands strong legs good nerves and a Standing martingale an old fashioned bit of kit but still very useful I use them on all of mine when they are started for hacking and schooling on the flat just in case.
 
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