Rearing and napping... again.... *VID*

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lubuzz

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To follow on from my rearing thread...

So here's the boy in action shortly before the rear that took us over backwards- sadly i didnt have that on video!

Just to re-cap, his napping has continually got worse until it came to a head last weekend at a local show. He's had everything checked, back, teeth, saddle etc etc. He ONLY shows this behaviour when he doesnt want to do something, ie at home he will work fine, and if this had been a school instead of a field he would have been fine. Its certain situations in open spaces and when leaving his friends and also out hacking where he gets very excited. He is very strong willed, very stubborn and his little respect for anyone. :rolleyes:

So, any suggestions please of what to do next with the little bugger are very welcome, although please be kind. Im asking for advice and abit aprehensive about posting :o




( I had to leave the ring as i was eliminated thats why i gave up and took him out, also im not heading for the jump, it just looks like i am ;), the first jump is actually in the bottom right hand corner but you cant see it :D )
 
Not sure if you are Lucy or your horse it, but my first horse was called Lucy and would do just what yours does.

We had good days and bad, the good days she would win easy, the bad she would rear backwards out the ring, nothing could be done about it, all just depended on her mood!

Doesn't help much but I can sympathise!
 
Difficult to comment but I'm afraid you look (understandably) quite anxious on him. Not sure why you were asking him to go away from where you actually ended up going out either. If you know of anywhere you can send him for schooling and competing then that would be my best advice as otherwise you are going to loose all confidence. Also if they don't enjoy jumping then probably best to leave this alone for the minute and concentrate on buiding relationships in favourable situations. Sorry I don't mean to sound so negative - on the plus side you look nice and secure!
 
scarymare said:
Difficult to comment but I'm afraid you look (understandably) quite anxious on him. Not sure why you were asking him to go away from where you actually ended up going out either. If you know of anywhere you can send him for schooling and competing then that would be my best advice as otherwise you are going to loose all confidence. Also if they don't enjoy jumping then probably best to leave this alone for the minute and concentrate on buiding relationships in favourable situations. Sorry I don't mean to sound so negative - on the plus side you look nice and secure!
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Its hard to see from the video i know- im in no way anxious, nor am i worried about him scaring me or losing confidence, hes done much worse than this vid :D but i am concerned about this getting worse.
Its not the jumps he's concerned about, he's very very keen on jumping, ist the fact he doesnt want to be in the ring away from his friend. Its a case of...' please do this..' 'no..' REAR!!! :o
 
Ooo the little monkey, do you always compete with a friend/livery/field buddy?

Is he any different on his own when you take him to competitions or does he still act like this when you come away from the warm up ring?
 
You say he doesn't want to leave his friend - do you ever take him alone and if so, is he different? I am sorry to say this but I think he needs a "sort-out" and I would get a pro to ride him a few times and see if it can be sorted.
 
Kenzo said:
Ooo the little monkey, do you always compete with a friend/livery/field buddy?

Is he any different on his own when you take him to competitions or does he still act like this when you come away from the warm up ring?
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He will warm up on his own fine as long as his friend is in sight.
He's only 5 and is still a bit insecure/ can lack confidence, unfortunatley in this situation it has come out like this...

Yeh i always compete with her as we share a lift, he has never been out completly on his own yet and he's not ready to.

I agree, a right little monkey :rolleyes:
 
We have one that used to do that, went over twice, the little beggar. He doesn't do it anymore ;)

What we did was basically tonnes and tonnes of groundwork, working on little things like moving forwards and yeilding down to the bit rather than hollowing and lifting his head. We also built his trust in us, which seems to be the key. With him it was a combination of resistance and insecurity.

Is this the only situation she does this in? Leaving the warmup at shows? A temporary quick fix if you feel that she's taking the mick - drop the reins and give her a smack on the arse with a stick, should shock her into going forwards. Praise her a lot when she does!

Rearing however takes time to sort, but she does have to know it's not acceptable. Building her confidence should help, especially when leaving other horses. Do you hack alone?
 
i would say take him out on his own to a small local comp and see what happens. why is he not ready to. 2 year olds manage it
 
Not every horse suits his rider and not every rider suits their horse. We can all pick the wrong one, so if you feel that you have, don't beat yourself up about it. However, if you want to persevere, then you need to go back to basics. Extablish you're the boss on the ground, get his respect, long-lining, asking for circles, turns, serpentines, etc, in the school and out, if you are able to. When you have him listening and responding nicely then go back into the saddle. Again ask for circles, turns, serpentines. Keep the training systematic and your responses consistent. Praise him when things go well, etc; It really is baby steps again but you need to establish who is in charge without getting physical with him - he'll always win that one. If he plays up block him with your seat and sit tight and wait. When he's listening again, take a step forward praise him and continue the exercise.

If you can get someone knowledgeable to help then even better as you have to be there 'in the moment' to know which is the next best step. The important thingis to stop the vicious circle you have found yourself in as one of you will end up getting hurt.

You've obviously got the nerve (bravo! many people would have given up by now!) but what you need now is the technique to deal with the difficult behaviour.

Hope this has helped and good luck!
 
Charliepony said:
We have one that used to do that, went over twice, the little beggar. He doesn't do it anymore ;)

What we did was basically tonnes and tonnes of groundwork, working on little things like moving forwards and yeilding down to the bit rather than hollowing and lifting his head. We also built his trust in us, which seems to be the key. With him it was a combination of resistance and insecurity.

Is this the only situation she does this in? Leaving the warmup at shows? A temporary quick fix if you feel that she's taking the mick - drop the reins and give her a smack on the arse with a stick, should shock her into going forwards. Praise her a lot when she does!

Rearing however takes time to sort, but she does have to know it's not acceptable. Building her confidence should help, especially when leaving other horses. Do you hack alone?
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No, he does it out hacking and also when being asked to leave the yard.
I used to hack alone, he has always been sharp but safe and manageable- now i cant get him out if i wanted to!

Normally the more i smack the higher he goes :eek:, so iv resorted to growling.... :o
 
lubuzz said:
He will warm up on his own fine as long as his friend is in sight.
He's only 5 and is still a bit insecure/ can lack confidence, unfortunatley in this situation it has come out like this...

Yeh i always compete with her as we share a lift, he has never been out completly on his own yet and he's not ready to.

I agree, a right little monkey :rolleyes:
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I think that the fact that he's 5 won't help if he's got that type of attitude in him anyway (they can be right Kevins a that age so I sympthise with you there) but as long as you keep taking him with his buddy, the more he'll get attached to being with him, I can understand your situation when your sharing lifts etc but it can also be the makings of a clingy horse, he needs to grow up and stand on is own two feet (well four in this case) and at this age it will make a lasting impression on him, is he really going to be any worse than he's acting there if you take him on his own and spend some time walking him about and getting him confident on his own rather than having his mind set on one thing...where his field buddy is.
 
classicalfan said:
Not every horse suits his rider and not every rider suits their horse. We can all pick the wrong one, so if you feel that you have, don't beat yourself up about it. However, if you want to persevere, then you need to go back to basics. Extablish you're the boss on the ground, get his respect, long-lining, asking for circles, turns, serpentines, etc, in the school and out, if you are able to. When you have him listening and responding nicely then go back into the saddle. Again ask for circles, turns, serpentines. Keep the training systematic and your responses consistent. Praise him when things go well, etc; It really is baby steps again but you need to establish who is in charge without getting physical with him - he'll always win that one. If he plays up block him with your seat and sit tight and wait. When he's listening again, take a step forward praise him and continue the exercise.

If you can get someone knowledgeable to help then even better as you have to be there 'in the moment' to know which is the next best step. The important thingis to stop the vicious circle you have found yourself in as one of you will end up getting hurt.

You've obviously got the nerve (bravo! many people would have given up by now!) but what you need now is the technique to deal with the difficult behaviour.

Hope this has helped and good luck!
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Thanks, it did :D
 
Kenzo said:
I think that the fact that he's 5 won't help if he's got that type of attitude in him anyway (they can be right Kevins a that age so I sympthise with you there) but as long as you keep taking him with his buddy, the more he'll get attached to being with him, I can understand your situation when your sharing lifts etc but it can also be the makings of a clingy horse, he needs to grow up and stand on is own two feet (well four in this case) and at this age it will make a lasting impression on him, is he really going to be any worse than he's acting there if you take him on his own and spend some time walking him about and getting him confident on his own rather than having his mind set on one thing...where his field buddy is.
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I always find it funny when people call this type of behaviour 'Kevin' - a lady at the show was saying this the other day when my OH was standing next to me... he's called Kevin!! :D

Thankyou for the advice, i need to seperate him from his friend to stop this clingyness, its getting worse.
 
I sympathise with you and well sat by the way, its not just a rear but a leap forward at the same time and my old pony used to do that whilst hacking. Its not a pleasant feeling, it gets you out of the saddle so they can dive off to where they want to go.

I think you need to solve the issue of not being able to do anything at home without his pal first of all, such as hacking, schooling by himself and get him to listen to you more. Join a riding club and go out to training sessions where there will be other horses but his pal wont be with him. Get out and about as much as possible without his buddy. Try and get out to clear round events so you don't get eliminated and can stay in the ring until he behaves, even if it is just trotting and cantering a few circles and jumping one fence without the bad behaviour, then end on a good note with lots of praise.

We had a right stroppy mare that would nap really badly and it went from napping out hacking to refusing to leave the yard. Rider was placed on with back protector and neck straps and balance straps to hold onto for good measure and sent out of the yard followed by two lunge whips. After doing this and following her round the lanes she decided it was no longer a good game and never did it again. She was just taking the mickey and she didn't get beaten, just showed the way!

She also used to nap and rear going into an arena. The trick with her was to walk her around on a long rein after warming up and continue walking into the ring and almost all the way to fence 1 without picking up the reins. A few strides away from the fence the reins would be picked up and off she would go.

You need to get him sorted out before he decides he doesn't have to do anything. Good luck.
 
lubuzz said:
I always find it funny when people call this type of behaviour 'Kevin' - a lady at the show was saying this the other day when my OH was standing next to me... he's called Kevin!! :D

Thankyou for the advice, i need to seperate him from his friend to stop this clingyness, its getting worse.
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oh dear :D bet that was quite confusing.

Honestly the difference between a 5yr old and a 6yr old can be huge but it could be that he's being a little over faced as well, again it may sound silly compaired to what some 5 yr olds are doing I know but sometimes just taking a step back, not asking as much phyically but concentrating on his confidence issues can be the one thing that prevents you and him from getting into a battle of wills and just getting him on your side and your way of thinking ...without him thinking he has ;) because the more you push the more he'll jam up and fight back.
 
Sorry to say it and I know I'm going to get shot down for this but he is taking the mick, I can hear him laughing from here. He needs a strong rider on him to ride him through it and I'm not talking about with the whip. He needs to be ridden through it, and get him going forwards. When you had him going forward you then let him come back to a walk hence he could nap again. It's a filthy habit and I really hope you get it sorted out. Hunting would be great for him.
 
I agree with Little Squirrel. To me his rearing doesn't look that nasty. I don't know if you've posted any other vids that I haven't seen but he looks like he is really taking the pee. You are sitting quietly :) but have you tried someone on the ground to try and send him forwards, the problem is rearing at his age will VERY quickly become a game
 
oh i feel sorry for you how horrible!! difficult since shes good the rest of the time sounds silly but maybe try a pairs class just to see if it settles her? anyway not very helpfull but i hope u find a solution! x
 
bounce said:
Rider was placed on with back protector and neck straps and balance straps to hold onto for good measure and sent out of the yard followed by two lunge whips. After doing this and following her round the lanes she decided it was no longer a good game and never did it again. She was just taking the mickey and she didn't get beaten, just showed the way!
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My boy got this treatment last month..... He hasnt napped since!

Seriously OP, I think you obviously have the bottle to sit it out, but I dont think from the video hat you have the power or Will to push him forward and through it. Dont get me wrong, I`m not sure I would. Its a habit that I`ve not had to deal with. Definately stop the trips outwith his friend, and get somebody to work him through this period if possible.
 
sprite1978 said:
My boy got this treatment last month..... He hasnt napped since!

Seriously OP, I think you obviously have the bottle to sit it out, but I dont think from the video hat you have the power or Will to push him forward and through it. Dont get me wrong, I`m not sure I would. Its a habit that I`ve not had to deal with. Definately stop the trips outwith his friend, and get somebody to work him through this period if possible.
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I agree, i dont think i actually have the physical strength to push and ride him through it, im like 5 foot nothing :D. I watch the video and think i should have really pushed and pushed him on there and in places he looked like he would have gone forward if i'd insisted abit more.

I'll try and find someone who is abit bigger and stronger, hopefully with some rearing experience to have a few sessions with him. The question is, where do you find someone like that.... :confused:
 
Dons tin hat first....

Can you be absolutely sure that there's no physical pain anywhere? Have you had a vet give him an MOT? Horses very rarely misbehave for the sake of it and IME 9 times out of 10 theres pain somewhere.

Assuming there's nothing physical going on I think you need to come back to go forward, you say he's strong willed, stubborn and has no respect for anyone, I would suggest getting a trainer to re-establish your groundwork, get some respect and boundaries in place, as someone suggested long-reining is a fantastic tool as is in hand work, and lateral work which can be done in hand will help to engage his brain - I'm not into getting on horses that are up in the clouds and paying no attention - I much prefer getting them in to a better frame of mind and then jumping on board.
remember he's only young still and it could all be a bit too much for him, a bit of time off from competing while you re-establish the basics may well do him the world of good. :)
 
I haven't read the rest so sorry if this is repeating other posts.

First, well sat!

Second, commiserations, it's miserable when they behave like that but only in public!

Third, assume that you have already tried all the kind and pleasant ways of making a horse like this behave, and checked all physical issues.


I have found in the past that spinning a horse like that on the spot until they are sick of turning can make them so pleased to be allowed to go forwards again that they do.

When I say on the spot I mean that you have their nose as close to your knee as you can get it and boot them round and round and round until they are dizzy (or you are!)

The added benefit is that it is almost impossible for them to go "up" while they are going round and round that tight.

Good luck, I hope that you crack this. It looks on the video like a straightforward nap back to the company in the collecting ring, which ought to be able to be cured by repetition in time.

ps mine did it in a dressage arena on Wednesday - possibly even more embarassing - but he is only a baby and was trying to get back to a horse warming up right at the A to his arena.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vKoHr91Xo...pshot_dvd_02.02_%5B2011.07.27_22.16.50%5D.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aVpkmdWXK...pshot_dvd_04.35_%5B2011.07.27_22.22.32%5D.jpg
 
:D
cptrayes said:
I haven't read the rest so sorry if this is repeating other posts.

First, well sat!

Second, commiserations, it's miserable when they behave like that but only in public!

Third, assume that you have already tried all the kind and pleasant ways of making a horse like this behave, and checked all physical issues.


I have found in the past that spinning a horse like that on the spot until they are sick of turning can make them so pleased to be allowed to go forwards again that they do.

When I say on the spot I mean that you have their nose as close to your knee as you can get it and boot them round and round and round until they are dizzy (or you are!)

The added benefit is that it is almost impossible for them to go "up" while they are going round and round that tight.

Good luck, I hope that you crack this. It looks on the video like a straightforward nap back to the company in the collecting ring, which ought to be able to be cured by repetition in time.

ps mine did it in a dressage arena on Wednesday - possibly even more embarassing - but he is only a baby and was trying to get back to a horse warming up right at the A to his arena.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vKoHr91Xo...pshot_dvd_02.02_%5B2011.07.27_22.16.50%5D.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aVpkmdWXK...pshot_dvd_04.35_%5B2011.07.27_22.22.32%5D.jpg
Click to expand...


Loved those pics :D Maybe there is hope... :rolleyes:
 
Mine is five too, they are often very naughty at five and fine at six. He is also very inexperienced, late broken and insecure and the idiot at the back was too close to my arena and cantering and trotting round (there are TWO 40x20 warm-ups, that's just the waiting area). He only did it in canter and he never does it at home since I cured his ulcers. Spinning, (though I would not do it to this horse of mine, who is basically a gentle soul who was overawed on the day), can be very effective especially when he is refusing to leave the yard - be careful on concrete/tarmac if he is shod.
 
Have you thought of trying something entirely different - Long Distance Riding? I only speak as a complete novice, as I had to give up almost as soon as I started, but I remember several somewhat nappy horses becoming completely reformed characters. There is minimal hanging about, which is when most horses who are thinking of being naughty get their act together!!
and once they set out on the course they are working hard and steadily, with no time to plot mischief.

Hunting worked for me with a pony who behaved as yours does, only very much worse, and he filled the rearing gaps with bucking. But I think there's much more hanging around out hunting these days so it would be little different to the show ring.

Anyway, very well sat. You hardly moved!
 
Hi,

first off, I admire you very much for sitting so well and not getting scared or worried.

Second, I am no expert AT ALL but I have been watching a man called Chris Cox on horse and country TV training a Dressage warmblood from Germany who does exactly what your horse does when he is competing. Now, before you say " Oh what the hell does a cowboy know about training" he was, in my opinion very very effective without being cruel. It would definitely be worth a watch. The end result was him and the horses owner taking the horse to a show and doing a dressage test successfully.

Just a thought. Good luck.
 
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