Rearing Issues, anyone resolved theirs?

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lucindakay

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hi all,
currently im a working pupil over in ireland on a livery yard/eventing yard, and currently there is a ex-racehorse in who is 7 yrs, 16hh, raced once and was terrible, my boss got him a year ago with the idea to produce him to event and sell on, though my boss never rides anything smaller that 16hh ISH, so as the only groom its my job to get him ready to sell, i've only been working here since sept and so i've only been apart of this horses re-training for 6 months now, hes been on and off with a his back but our back man said hes at his strongest now after lots of lunging work, there have been two previous grooms, one was afraid of horses(she only stayed for a few months) and she used to get the draw reins on and canter him around the arena for 30 mins and stop, second girl didnt really care for him because he coudlt jump but in my opinion she didnt do her job and left the poor boy, so i arrive to very green horse.

this boy is great to handle hes the sweetest little thing he looks like my old show pony, hes the real dainty type, he always reaches out for attention on the yard, i just am amazed by how gentle he is, ive had horses and ponies all my life and never known anything to be so sweet, so this is what baffles me, when it comes to riding hes great after a while and after being lunged, he can be choppy but i am convinced its because one girl just frightened him, but hwen he settles hes great, though he still cant canter on the right and when i ask to canter he throws huge bucks(this is what scared second girl) had vet and said no to ulcers so had back checked, bring him back into work and hes the same, we have started trying to de-sensitise him to leg on ect and hes getting better. after i ride any of the horses at work i always cool off with a hack on the xco course or on the road but as soon as i get anywhere out of site of the yard he startes walking backwards and rearing and spinning(these are huge rears and after breaking my back at 7 due to a rearing pony who is the spitting image of him im not a fan) , i started trying hacks before working in the arena and he did it again, i never get off unless theres concrete about and i'll only get off once hes really stopped, now i know hes doing this till he gets his own way but he really doesn't give in, i dont know if its fear or stubbornness, he is a flighty animal and hasnt been treated too well in the past, in my opinion he shouldnt be sold on but boss says he needs to go in a month, i personally love riding him on the flat but as soon as any jumps are introduced he adds extra strides so goes straight through anything, im at my whits end with this horse, i love him to pieces and he is the sort to fall into the wrong hands, i really dont know what im asking, just trying to find anyone with a similar horse who has has a positive outcome?
sorry this is so long i just need to hear someone who can tell me that they have a horse similar and have has a good outcome.

also its his first dressage test this weekend, he has gone to do 60cms out as well and he slowly starrted to get better but really i think dressage is for him as he has beautiful paces! and he doesnt listen to anything the rider says

*also sorry if none of this makes sense ive been competing all day and only got in*
 
I don't necessarily disagree with AM. However, if his back has been checked then for now, I'd play it that it was just a napping issue. For a start, if this is his attitude I certainly wouldn't even be considering taking him to compete, and I understand that you are an employee and that this is not necessarily your decision but I certainly would not be the one to ride him at the comp. personally, my approach would be to warm him up in the school and then trot him out for his hack.... Going forward in trot until the point of return ( which means not too long a hack) when you turn around to come home, allow him to walk, but by trotting him out it make it much more difficult for him to produce napping/rearing behaviour. I would try this a few times and then if all is good, slow the out going pace, only speeding it up if I felt any backward attitude, until a point where I could ride out and back in a relaxed pace with no incident. If it became very obvious to me that this was not possible then I would want another veterinary opinion with regards to the horses back, and if this was not forthcoming from the owner then I would refuse to work with the horse for my Own safety.
 
I have an Appaloosa my groom loans from me. He's 16.3 and quite powerful, and she's a 5'4 7.5 stone girl. When she first started hacking him alone he would do this.

Point 1 - I made her wear the point 2 air jacket we have.

Point 2 - first step was him hacking in company, which was fine. Then him taking the lead in company, to begin with only after we were about halfway round whatever hack we did, then gradually moving it so he was eventually in the lead from the start.

Point 3 - she started leading him out on the route. At first she would lead him the whole way round. When he was marching forward with his ears up enjoying it every time, we introduced the rider - me on the ground to help give a non horsey lead (he was perfect in company) and halfway round she would get on and ride home. Gradually we made it so she would get on earlier in the hack, until she was getting on at the gate etc. After about 2 weeks she could ride him out straight from the mounting block.

Point 4 - he had some time off due to an injury recently and since then has been up to his old tricks, so I wouldn't call it a forever cure and I suspect he would try it with any new rider. Presently we are back to just getting him to take the lead when hacking in company before going back to the hacking alone business!

I wish you the best of luck with this horse, sounds like a sweetheart but a handful!
 
x3^^. My gelding was a rearer as a newly started youngster and it was just confidence. It was a big scary world out there and he didn't want any part of it!

I got told some really dumb stuff - hit him over the head with a raw egg (what to do with the egg when you are riding), same with a plastic bag full of water (ditto the egg) or a dead chicken (yes, really!), pull him over backwards (what about me?) and so it went on.

In the end I would start our hacks out by leading him, when he was relaxed I would get on and if things turned to custard out riding, I would just get off and lead him until we were all ok with the world again. End result was a happy, confident horse who trusted me and no chickens were harmed during the training of this horse.
 
Hi op, firstly I'd say not to completely trust his backs fine. My horse struggled for a few years with his back and I had it done every few months always being told "he's a bit out or stiff but loosened him off and he's just being ex racehorsey and bit of a diva about it"
X-rays showed KS.
Secondly how about long reining him? Especially if you have access to large safe space such as your Xc course.
Worked wonders for our napper and kept us a bit safer as he also went down on the road once.
Good luck with him, stay safe!
 
Young TBs napping hacking alone is very normal they are started in groups go to the gallops in groups hacking alone is not easy for many of them them.
If you have a month to sort him it's not long .
If where you work is not too busy traffic wise I would have a go at long reining out and about horses broken to race are often very good a long lining .if he's not easy don't waste the short time you have left on it .
And hack in company every day do say four rides and repeat them with company if he's ok in company doing this once and if he'll hack in front with a friend there try again alone .
With a bit of luck in a month you will be able market him hacking in company and with the hacking alone a work in progress .
Don't try to hack alone If the horse is napping daily , it reinforces the behaviour and it's dangerous for you.
Of course the horse may have a veterinary issue but he also may just be a rushed young ex racehorse who need time and training .
If he hacks in company the hacking alone is not necessarily a deal breaker when he's sold .
 
Goldenstar said:
Young TBs napping hacking alone is very normal they are started in groups go to the gallops in groups hacking alone is not easy for many of them them.
If you have a month to sort him it's not long .
If where you work is not too busy traffic wise I would have a go at long reining out and about horses broken to race are often very good a long lining .if he's not easy don't waste the short time you have left on it .
And hack in company every day do say four rides and repeat them with company if he's ok in company doing this once and if he'll hack in front with a friend there try again alone .
With a bit of luck in a month you will be able market him hacking in company and with the hacking alone a work in progress .
Don't try to hack alone If the horse is napping daily , it reinforces the behaviour and it's dangerous for you.
Of course the horse may have a veterinary issue but he also may just be a rushed young ex racehorse who need time and training .
If he hacks in company the hacking alone is not necessarily a deal breaker when he's sold .
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all this 100%.
 
Yes, I sorted one. Home bred mare, very very athletic and balanced determined lady, it was nappiness pure and simple. She had been long reined all over, refused to go out of the yard a few times, even refused to go forward in company - we had investigated all the possible reasons.
She could rear to the point of balance and never feel in any danger of coming down, she just wouldn't go forward. What "cured" her was what the Germans call the "mill" - you have to time it right and with full commitment, it consists of turning a really really tight circle, nose to boot type of thing, a few times as an aversive, as soon as you feel them stopping going forward. Uncomfortable for them, it only needs doing a few times, the instant you feel the brakes go on.
I did it on half a dozen occasions with my mare and the very last time, as I took that feel on the one rein, I felt her give it up and go forward. Never ever had a problem again, she was a go anywhere do anything mare - she was using her strong will WITH me instead of against me.
Don't do it half heartedly though, it is dangerous if you are doing a loose circle and he still rears, that is when they come down sideways onto your leg.
 
JillA said:
Yes, I sorted one. Home bred mare, very very athletic and balanced determined lady, it was nappiness pure and simple. She had been long reined all over, refused to go out of the yard a few times, even refused to go forward in company - we had investigated all the possible reasons.
She could rear to the point of balance and never feel in any danger of coming down, she just wouldn't go forward. What "cured" her was what the Germans call the "mill" - you have to time it right and with full commitment, it consists of turning a really really tight circle, nose to boot type of thing, a few times as an aversive, as soon as you feel them stopping going forward. Uncomfortable for them, it only needs doing a few times, the instant you feel the brakes go on.
I did it on half a dozen occasions with my mare and the very last time, as I took that feel on the one rein, I felt her give it up and go forward. Never ever had a problem again, she was a go anywhere do anything mare - she was using her strong will WITH me instead of against me.
Don't do it half heartedly though, it is dangerous if you are doing a loose circle and he still rears, that is when they come down sideways onto your leg.
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This is what we did only the guy teaching it to us called it a one rein stop. Just pull head round so nose is by your foot and spin until they relax into you then realise and go forwards.
Everytime they tenses to do it again repeat the exercise.
 
hi, sorry i lost my password to my account so ive had to make a new one

thank you all for your advice, today i tried the 'mill' idea and it worked really well, we were just at the gate(with another horse) and he started to think about rearing so i turned him quickly and he calmed down and i think he respected me a bit more

i've spoken to my boss as well about riding this horse and i asked for extra time with him as i do think he could make a lovely horse he just needs time, so fingers crossed the dressage goes well, and that he starts to become more of a riding horse!
 
rooseblox said:
hi, sorry i lost my password to my account so ive had to make a new one

thank you all for your advice, today i tried the 'mill' idea and it worked really well, we were just at the gate(with another horse) and he started to think about rearing so i turned him quickly and he calmed down and i think he respected me a bit more

i've spoken to my boss as well about riding this horse and i asked for extra time with him as i do think he could make a lovely horse he just needs time, so fingers crossed the dressage goes well, and that he starts to become more of a riding horse!
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Good for you - those determined horses are the ones who go on to be very special once they respect and trust you.
 
I have recently had by tb boy (chap in my profile pic) put down. I had him for three years. Ex racer, always napped alone, a saint with others....normally. After 3 years of battling with what I thought was a behavioural issue, having had his back checked, checked checked and checked again, his behaviour got worse in the last year, he didnt rear ever, BUT he did buck for england, and broncing in the last 12 months got progressively worse and more dangerous.

I was still told by vet nothing wrong, it was behavioural!

He did unaffilated eventing and was superb, but always had a nap in him, and once he made his mind up NOTHING would get him moving. I never got off unless i actually needed to get home! and I'm no pushover.

Fast forward to a few months ago, his behaviour in hand became terrible, would just rear for no reason at all when turning out bringing in. Got a specialist out and guess....kissing spines! At 17 and not great as a companion and no other option for retiring him I made a hard decision, but I know it was right.

I believe throughout his life he had this niggle, despite what vets etc said, as he was not a nasty character at all. I feel awful that he was pushed and pushed when clearly he must have had some pain all the way along his life.

Yes some nap, the current chap I have on loan can put the odd nap in but it's definately different.

TB/ex racers it's a tough call between pain and napping.......just ensure that you get second opinions and be sure the horse is not in any pain, as I was convinced it was behavioural.
 
unicornystar said:
I have recently had by tb boy (chap in my profile pic) put down. I had him for three years. Ex racer, always napped alone, a saint with others....normally. After 3 years of battling with what I thought was a behavioural issue, having had his back checked, checked checked and checked again, his behaviour got worse in the last year, he didnt rear ever, BUT he did buck for england, and broncing in the last 12 months got progressively worse and more dangerous.

I was still told by vet nothing wrong, it was behavioural!

He did unaffilated eventing and was superb, but always had a nap in him, and once he made his mind up NOTHING would get him moving. I never got off unless i actually needed to get home! and I'm no pushover.

Fast forward to a few months ago, his behaviour in hand became terrible, would just rear for no reason at all when turning out bringing in. Got a specialist out and guess....kissing spines! At 17 and not great as a companion and no other option for retiring him I made a hard decision, but I know it was right.

I believe throughout his life he had this niggle, despite what vets etc said, as he was not a nasty character at all. I feel awful that he was pushed and pushed when clearly he must have had some pain all the way along his life.

Yes some nap, the current chap I have on loan can put the odd nap in but it's definately different.

TB/ex racers it's a tough call between pain and napping.......just ensure that you get second opinions and be sure the horse is not in any pain, as I was convinced it was behavioural.
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im so sorry to hear about yours, its so east to feel bad in hindsight but when you have vets ect saying its behavioral you will most likely listen to them.

i do have a feeling he has kissing spines, i spoke to my vet about it and my boss sort of ignored me, but not in a terrible way, its just he has a lot going on as both himself and his wife are ill atm, we have the vet coming for a cushings mare next week so i wll speak to him about options but this vet was the one who said he was just cold backed..

good news though, we went and did the dressage test, we got 64, he was a little tense but calmed down and then only when we halted he did a huge rear, i think almost to say he was pleased with himself as it wasnt his usual rear i dont know how but we still got a 6 for our halt?!im extremely pleased with him and the judge came out after and spoke to me and said he has huge amounts of potential we just need to calm our walks and stop doing random burst of medium trot!!!
 
my boy used to rear - its his default if put under pressure. His was mainly based around solo hacking but has been known to do it in the school - he had all the basic checks and was pronounced fit and well. Some of it was from his previous career - mostly racehorses go out in a string so being alone isn't well known to them and the other issue was he was on controlled exercise which menat doing the same route.Try and break the rear down - does he always spin one way,does he prop before rearing,ears flick,back humps etc - mine always went left and was always a rear and spin never just standing up. Iused to basically put him in a hedge so he couldn't spin left , a set of draw reins to keep him straight (these were never tight and were more a safety belt) and reining back - he got out of the habit and hacked out safely and confidently. Having said all this - he was diagnosed with front feet issues a couple of years back and whether the early stages of these problems were occurring then but something I will never know
 
Agree napping, agree trot out to start the hack. Do not feel sacred he will sense it and take the p. When he rears disengage the hind quarters, pull hard on the right rein to unbalance him, i doubt he will fall over but if he does you just jump out the left side, remember you are in control whilst doing this. My husband ex jockey does it all the time and they soon give up.

Or long rein him on the hack after exercise to cool him down, long reining is such a good going back to basics form of training.
 
postputasocinit said:
When he rears disengage the hind quarters, pull hard on the right rein to unbalance him, i doubt he will fall over but if he does you just jump out the left side, remember you are in control whilst doing this.
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Pulling on the right rein and jumping off the left side seems a bit dodgy to me. A horse with his head pulled to the right can only fall to the left, as that is the direction in which his quarters are disengaging. Far better that the rider dismounts, in whatever fashion, on the same side as the horses head, so that they can drop into a safe area and the horse's quarters are moving away from them as they do so. Less chance of being knocked or kicked, and a much better chance of keeping hold of the reins.

Horses can be taught to yield their head right round, on either side, to meet the rider's boot. Having been taught this, they do it without resistance which means they don't have to be pulled round. As you rightly say, this has the effect of disengaging the hind quarters. Whilst this helps the rider to avoid a sudden strong surge forward, and possible run-away situation, I'm not sure it would be the best course of action in the event of a rear, but it may be a plan to dissuade the horse from starting his rear if all else has failed.
 
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