Rearing youngster

[rescuearacehorse]

I’m looking for some advice please. I bought a lovely RID 4 yr old in Feb. He’d been broken well and although he was obviously weak, he was safe and well behaved to ride.
Since then we’ve hacked about and I’ve been very easy on him.

About 2 months ago I was hacking out with the children and he reared. He then proceeded to rear on the same ride probably 5 more times. I thought he was excited/fresh/frustrated by flies.

Since then he’s got progressively worse. To explore whether it’s just a ridden issue I’ve walked him out and he’s reared and got away from me, galloping off down the road to the yard.

I took him to the vets and they said they couldn’t find anything wrong with him.

I came off him on the road this week when he went bolt upright when a car passed, then plunged and chucked me on the verge. Black eye and concussion but nothing broken.

Today, I didn’t even get out the gate. He felt like he was going to explode as soon as I got on, and explode he did. I got off him, walked him round for a bit, got on again and up he went.

It’s not small rears, it’s slow, intentional bolt upright and staying up as long as he can.

Honestly, I don’t want to get back on him. I’m brave and will ride most horses, but I’ve got young children and I have the feeling he’s going to hurt me.

I suppose what I’m asking is, what would you do in this situation?

How would I get even move him on to someone else? I don’t want anyone to get hurt. I’m accepting I will lose the £10k I paid for him whatever I do.

 

[shortstuff99]

What diagnostics did the vets do?

 

[SEL]

If the vets have definitely ruled out pain and it isn't a saddle issue then it's a job for someone like Michael Peace to see if he's learnt a naughty habit - and put him back on track hopefully

 

[rescuearacehorse]

They did his teeth, saw him trot up and confirmed he was sound. I didn’t ask for full scintigraphy or anything that. I suppose I’m convinced it’s behavioural. I could be wrong though of course.

 

[AmyMay]

They did his teeth, saw him trot up and confirmed he was sound. I didn’t ask for full scintigraphy or anything that. I suppose I’m convinced it’s behavioural. I could be wrong though of course.

So they didn’t do much.

He needs to have a proper workup.

 

[rescuearacehorse]

So they didn’t do much.

He needs to have a proper workup.

Noted, thanks

 

[HG95]

I'd also be asking them to scope for ulcers as well

 

[twiggy2]

The vets didn't look very hard by the sounds of it

 

[Gloi]

Does he rear as much when worked in long reins as ridden?
I'd certainly be wanting a work up with back and neck x-rays.
You are right not to get back on at the moment

 

[claracanter]

Can you take him back to the vets and get him thoroughly checked out, a proper work up. For your safety, don’t get back on.

 

[rescuearacehorse]

Ok, so thorough pain exploration needed.
I’ll get him booked in.

IF the answer is that there’s nothing wrong with him, what would your answer be then?

 

[rescuearacehorse]

Does he rear as much when worked in long reins as ridden?
I'd certainly be wanting a work up with back and neck x-rays.
You are right not to get back on at the moment

I’ve not long reined him. If I’m honest, I don’t think I’m experienced enough to long rein him, he’s flipping dangerous just leading him around the field.

 

[Boulty]

Would agree with pursuing further workup for poor performance. Would specifically be asking about back / neck X-rays & scoping for ulcers. (If you struggle to get vets to take you seriously see if someone like Rob Jackson or Tom Beech covers your area as may be worth them having a look to see if they can pinpoint a problem area that might act as a starting point but tbh a decent referral centre ought to pick up things like that anyway in the course of their investigations)

 

[SEL]

They did his teeth, saw him trot up and confirmed he was sound. I didn’t ask for full scintigraphy or anything that. I suppose I’m convinced it’s behavioural. I could be wrong though of course.

When the Appy was a baby rearing was her go-to. And for a big lass she could get some height.

Some of it was her - she does it at play in the field - but she was diagnosed with PSSM and hock arthritis before her 6th birthday so there were other issues

Ok, so thorough pain exploration needed.
I’ll get him booked in.

IF the answer is that there’s nothing wrong with him, what would your answer be then?

A professional.

 

[rescuearacehorse]

I should add, he stood on his back legs when playing with the ponies in the field.

He’s out 24/7 and on no hard feed, previously on a lot of grasss, which I’ve now fenced off.

 

[TPO]

I’ve not long reined him. If I’m honest, I don’t think I’m experienced enough to long rein him, he’s flipping dangerous just leading him around the field.

IF he has a clean as a whistle report after a proper and thorough work up then you need to send him to a pro.

He's 4 and if you're not able to train him to be safe to lead in hand then heneeds to go to someone who can.

I can't believe you'd get on something that keeps repeating the same escalating dangerous behaviour when you haven't been able to train him on the ground. Please stop before you are seriously hurt.

 

[Boulty]

Going to be honest if you find nothing treatable & aren’t in a position to have with you retired then would consider PTS as sounds like could seriously injure someone if passed on / something is causing him to be very unhappy if behaving like he is. If you find something & treat it & seems resolved would probably get a suitable pro to try reschool with full disclosure and then decide from there

 

[rescuearacehorse]

IF he has a clean as a whistle report after a proper and thorough work up then you need to send him to a pro.

He's 4 and if you're not able to train him to be safe to lead in hand then heneeds to go to someone who can.

I can't believe you'd get on something that keeps repeating the same escalating dangerous behaviour when you haven't been able to train him on the ground. Please stop before you are seriously hurt.

Thanks, I hear you. I’ve been thinking I can’t let him get too fresh so kept battling on thinking I needed to work him out of it. Except it’s not worked!

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Should he come back clean from the vets you do need a specialist trainer.

We had a chronic rearer whose choice was come to us or be pts. Whilst I am sure it had originally been pain related it was now behavioural. He had a pattern of behaviour just before he would rear, his was to go out through the left shoulder. So if you could head that off he wouldn’t rear.

Have you noticed a pattern? Do you have the tools under saddle as a rider to prevent the rear?

There was a LOT of work that went into this horse to make him safe. The rear was always in him and would come out if he was nervous or stressed. It took a lot to ride this horse, keeping him calm and confident so the rear didn’t come out. He was a 1.60m Showjumper and knew his job once he heard the bell, so he was worth keeping for us.

 

[TPO]

Thanks, I hear you. I’ve been thinking I can’t let him get too fresh so kept battling on thinking I needed to work him out of it. Except it’s not worked!

Nope, you need to go right back to basics [with a GOOD experienced trainer] and get him safe on the ground before progressing. You can't build without a solid foundation.

Have a look at the likes of Joe Midgley (www.goodhorsemanshipchannel.co.uk) & Richard Maxwell books. But they don't replace the involvement of a good trainer.

If you give your general area people might be able to recommend vets for a work up and local trainers.

 

[rescuearacehorse]

Nope, you need to go right back to basics [with a GOOD experienced trainer] and get him safe on the ground before progressing. You can't build without a solid foundation.

Have a look at the likes of Joe Midgley (www.goodhorsemanshipchannel.co.uk) & Richard Maxwell books. But they don't replace the involvement of a good trainer.

If you give your general area people might be able to recommend vets for a work up and local trainers.

Worcestershire- Three Counties Equine Hospital are my vets.

 

[maya2008]

If there are obvious triggers for the rears, then it might be a training issue. If there is no predictable pattern, it’s most likely pain. I have had two where their go-to reaction was to rear. One reared when asked to halt. Predictable, linked to anxiety from previous bad experience, fixable. The other also reared from anxiety - whenever he saw anything that scared him. Again, predictable. We fixed that by desensitising him to everything, building his confidence in the rider and politely explaining that rearing is not a helpful option. Both of those were lovely on the ground and in every other way, and it was abundantly clear exactly why they were doing it.

In contrast, you have a tense, wound-up horse who didn’t always rear and now does; where there are no obvious triggers each time. That would suggest pain to me.

Very much agree with others - neck and back x-rays, ulcer scope. I have had vets pronounce horses sound when they most definitely were not, and only see it later when the poor horse was obviously limping. So have other people on here. Just because a cursory look says it’s sound, doesn’t mean it is!

 

[LEC]

Tbh rearing in hand by a horse who has been trained under saddle just isn’t normal. Rearing is either a pain trigger or because they are frustrated. They either don’t understand the question or they have anxiety and feel it’s being ignored. The situations you have described just are not normal rearing situations as you are not asking any questions and have company in form of sensible ponies. Rearing after the car is weird as normally it would be before.

 

[TPO]

Worcestershire- Three Counties Equine Hospital are my vets.

3 countries have a really good reputation. I used them for a vetting many moons ago. Perhaps they didn't understand that a full work up was required?

I'm in Scotland so no idea of a good "boots on the ground" person but I'm sure someone here could advise.

Please make sure you wear a hard hat and gloves at all times when handling a horse that unpredictable and "dangerous to lead". Perhaps use a lunge line instead of a lead rope so that if things kicks off you can keep a hold out of the danger zone.

 

[millikins]

I can't see OP if you have had the saddle checked, a few months of regular work will definitely have made him a different shape. I know he is now rearing in hand too but he could be extremely sore or remembering pain, you may well have already done this but didn't see it mentioned.

 

[JumpTheMoon1]

Back to basics and NO riding for now.Groundwork and a lot of it on the lunge rein.If there are no medical issues then this dangerous behaviour problem has to be stopped.
See how he behaves on the lunge and you are going to have to be very assertive and let him know its not acceptable to rear - lots of loud NO's when he rears.
Get him moving on the lunge and let him know his rearing will not be tolerated.
Watch carefully how he moves and any obvious signs of pain etc.
You said in a previous comment you are not experienced enough to long rein him !!!! well lunge him surely you can do that ?
He needs to be in an indoor school for safety reasons so he cant bolt off.
Good luck.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

He needs a proper workup at a good vet hospital rearing is quite a strong response I wouldn't be surprised if it is pain somewhere.

 

[stormox]

The very first few times he reared, what did you do? Did he learn that the rearing meant he went home, or rider got off?
We're you alone and is he better hacking out with a lead?
Does he lack confidence as he hasn't been broken long?
I have known several I.D.s who reared, it seems to be their 'go to' defence as opposed to bucking, or spinning and running off.
A professional rider may be the way to go.

 

[irishdraft]

So it sounds like you have only had him a couple of months when he first started doing this, correct me if I'm wrong. I agree you probably should get a more through vet check for pain and if no pain it's a professional job to get him back on track. He's only a 4 year old and IDs can be extremely anxious, spooky and generally very reactive. I have had a few young IDs that have all tested me and have one now that's 8 and is the most reactive horse I've ever had. I'm not saying to plug on by yourself because obviously this is a potentially dangerous situation and it's not worth getting seriously hurt but by the same token please don't just think about passing on or similar as he's only a baby, they take a long time to mature physically & mentally. I hope you can find a way forward for him .

 

[Goldenstar]

Young draughts can be extremely diffcult particularly at the stage he is at .
I would ask vets to do flexion tests and lunging on small circles to see if any lameness can be found .
I would also X-ray his back .
If this is all clear send him to suitable pro one who is used to making hunters and hacking horses rather than training competition horses .
He may not be for you in your stage of life atm but he will be for someone .