Recall disaster - help!

stencilface

stencilface

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So after posting earlier today on another post about being able to recall my dog, today this went out the window.

I got home to find a dishevelled OH and a very pleased with himself dog with some blue rope for a lead. We have a large garden with no fence between our fence and the neighbours so max thinks essentially that both are his (neighbours don't mind,they play with him and walk him every week, he is their surrogate dog lol). Turns out the oh got home and was getting some logs in when it all went wrong, max snuck out and ran into the garden, it was then the oh realised there were some escapee farmers sheep in our garden :eek:

So that was that, Max's hearing became switched off and he was off :o luckily the sheep got their way back into their field (odd when they're usually so stupid!) but even luckier max was too stupid to find the gap. He didn't give up though and it took the OH half an hour to catch him whilst he was runnin trying to get in with the sheep. Field is big so I think sheep were able to get far away enough not to be distressed.

Obviously today is not normal, max would not be off the lead in a sheep field, but again his recall when distracted is appalling, and today at dusk he was running worryingly close to a main road :(

Does anyone have any ideas how we can improve this, or better recommendations of hard nut dog trainers, gun dog types I guess that might be able to help with his obedience? He is fine when not on the chase, but deafness kicks in when it gets exciting
 
Where are you? Gun dog trainer is brilliant- our dogs stop is coming on now and pretty good, once we stop him then can re call can't recall him if he is on the run tho unless the stop done first!
 
Oh dear! Thought something was amiss when I went past and saw a not-so-impressed looking Charlie with dog held by the collar!
 
Sorry we're north leeds so anywhere nearish would be good, dog training classes for normal dogs I don't think would work, he needs more than that.

Yes Charlie was not impressed, mind you neither was max with a outside wash off as he was filthy, he's sleeping like a baby now though! :rolleyes:
 
I would whole heartedly recommend Jan Westby if she's anywhere near you (Ilkley any good?):

http://www.bestfriendsonline.co.uk/

Out of interest have you tried training classes and not had any success? Is there a particular system that did not work for you? Jan does clicker.

The usual exercises for improving recall are:
- keep the best treats for the recall
- play the recall game
- long line
 
Not sure what breed or age your dog is, but Stevie Allerton is in Leeds and I would highly recommend. She is a GSP person primarily, also a FT judge.
Just be aware that whilst the stop is a fundamental part of gundog work, it takes a long long time to teach for it to be reliable at a distance with distractions such as sheep, and also remember that dogs tend to be contextual.

Stevie Allerton
9 First Avenue
Rothwell
Leeds
West Yorkshire
LS26 0JX
England
0113 2829903
stevie.eshaldwell@talktalk.net
 
Thanks both, will have a look at both of those. The reason I don't want to try indoor type classes for 'normal' dogs is that he needs to be outside with distractions, making him recall in a lesson situation with nothing to chase would serve no purpose. I can (and do!) do this on walks, in the garden, in the house and he's fine, but add in a distraction and I may as well be talking to myself.

He's a 5yo rescue GSD x Rottie and I think he needs some working dog type training to help him really

12-9EA4E4BB-1415721-960_zps24e124a0.jpg
 
Have a look at 'Perfect Recall' by Pippa Mattinson - it's a little pricey, but a good book and includes some stuff about remedial recall issues.
 
Some brilliant trainers suggested here. In the meantime I would go back to a longline and set up as many distractions as you can to try to deal with the problem in the meantime.

My terrier also experiences deafness (she is a terrier!), we used a little red can of compressed air (Pet correct?? I can't remember the name - we got it from pets at home) to get her attention off the distraction and back onto us then immediatly recalled and treated. The can gives a very loud clear noise that stops her in her tracks. Might be worth a shot?

ETA - Don't feel poop about it, there were sheep in his garden... majorly exciting! I have to use my 'I am about to kill you' voice to call the terrier off cats in our garden but out and about she isn't very interested!
 
My opinion for what it's worth is that if you have problems with recall with distractions you need to reinforce the behaviour more when there are no distractions and gradually introduce new things. So practicing at home, in the garden, etc, is great and practicing in a group with other dogs adds a level of difficulty that is still manageable but not insurmountable because once a dog gets completely distracted and is away from you there is little you can do (other than the long line but you can use that along other training ideas).
 
Thanks spudlet will have a look at the book - got to be cheaper than buying new sheep!

Dobiegirl - that was really interesting, I might have a go at that in the garden at the weekend, I know exactly the toy to use (ie one he loves, but one we hide as we cannot bear the level of squeaking in the house :o )

LML - I can stop him chasing garden squirrels if I growl at him before he's gone, but sheep in his garden would have been too much for anything I could do! Longline will be out again this week, this morning he was kept strictly on lead.
 
If he's a GSD/Rottie I would check out a working dog/police/working trials type set up as opposed to a gundog trainer, but just my opinion.

As with everything, you have to build your bond and be the bearer of good things and make a link between recall and the production of those good things.

You must produce something of a higher value than the distraction and if you can't, then you have to look at using compulsion (you MUST return), although I am sure many may disagree!
 
I have tried 'my' squeaky toy (although this will be changed for his more favourite one which I had forgotten about until I found it down the back of the sofa where we'd stashed it to stop him squeaking like a demon - its a kong wubba and very annoying pitch!) and this doesn't make him inclined to return on a rabbit chase, although will try the method in the link above to get him to like it more. He is not food orientated at all when out walking, in the house its different matter (if you remember my 'my dogs eaten my xmas cake saga).

Would training from a club like this be better then CC? Or would they snub my crossbreed? :eek:

http://www.leedsbagsd.com/index.htm
 
BAGSD wouldn't snub him, they work with all sorts of breeds but they're sport orientated, if you went along you'd probably be expected to be aiming at some sort of qualification (like KC Good Citizens or a BH) or long-term commitment rather than just a few sessions of pet obedience, cheerio and thanks very much - however there would be no harm in calling for advice or having a visit to see if it's your sort of thing (beware, you could get addicted!!) and you may find having an occupation could settle him right down.
 
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Stencilface said:
He is not food orientated at all when out walking, in the house its different matter /QUOTE]

Try feeding him by hand. If you feed dry, pour his daily allowance or one of his daily meals into the pockets of a bodywarmer and only feed when he is doing what you want him to. You're feeing him the same amount, but just out of your pocket instead of a bowl.
He'll work for his food if he's hungry.
Click to expand...
 
I may as well give them a shot then :)

Who knows, I might get addicted, esp seeing as my horse seems intent on being lame! I'm not sure if my dog would ever qualify as a good citizen :rolleyes:
 
Go along without your dog the first time and watch, gives you the chance to check the place out, look at the methods they're using, whether the other clients are enjoying themselves, and also discuss things with the trainer without needing to worry about what your dog is up to. People often come to watch us before they decide to join the class :)
 
Well, I didn't ring GSD league but after the response from BAGSD I thought it would likely be the same (as they seem more serious) Thanks for your pms :)
 
Fingers crossed that Stevie will help, but as he's not a gundog breed or mix I have my doubts. Sorry, for some reason I thought you had a GSP or cross. Old age! If Stevie can't/won't help, pick her brains for someone local as she has lots of good contacts.
 
You could try ringing the club back and see if they could recommend you a trainer in your area with a particular interest in dogs of that breed type.:)
 
They recommended the pet dog class at the same ground, but tbh there's closer pet clubs I could go to. :)

Stevie doesn't want him either, going to try and find a rottie training club, as at least he looks like a rottie, and not looking like a gsd was why bagsd didn't want him. Failing that, it's pet club and books and above Internet link for me. Annoyingly I can't find my longline so might have to buy another which is annoying! :)
 
I do feel for your OH, they make you feel such a fool. I am no help to you, dog is terrible at recall, perfect in class of course, and when we have him on long recall lead. He only gets treats when he comes to us, but still 18 months in something holds him back, and if he is obsessing on something then no chance!!

We do not know his history before he was handed into rescue, so only thing we can do is keep to lead out of fence garden/paddock areas, and keep praising him when he does it right.
 
To be honest, this is one of the very few occasions id recommend use of an electric collar - a lot of gundog trainers would have one, but definitely get an experienced trainer to use it, timing is absolutely critical.
Sheep worrying is a VERY serious crime- your dog will be shot if a farmer catches him killing lambs, which is what chasing can escalate to.
 
I don't think I need to step to an electric collar. I'm well aware that sheep worrying is a shootable offence for a dog, but he is carefully managed on walks and not let off where there are any sheep, and is not being let off the lead at all ATM.

Tbh, in this scenario the sheep were either liable to get chased, or could have very easily ended up on the road as we don't routinely shut our garden gate. The sheep aren't permanent residents, they are hill sheep that are brought in to the dairy farm during the winter. He's seen sheep before off lead when at our stables, and has never shown any inclination to jump fences to chase them.
 
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