Red Lion Abbatoir

I saw this on the news hardly surprising I don't know why anyone is shocked by this I am only surprised nothing more sinister has been found in our food.

Where there are huge amounts of money to be made there will always be someone willing to bend the rules, and if you think about it where did they think the huge amount of horses being slaughtered were all going, they should have realised they would not all be going abroad.
 
Sorry to any Irish members here, but I wouldn't accept ANY horse coming from there. Even the ones sold for riding etc are often not what they appear/are claimed to be. It all shows what a complete waste of time and money the passport is too.

I was told of dodgy goings on at Red Lion several years ago, incidentally.
 
There are most certain inconsistencies within that article, so to make accusations, which they cannot substantiate, are wrong.

I shall report this thread to Admin. If they decide to remove it, then you'll know who it was. ;)

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
There are most certain inconsistencies within that article, so to make accusations, which they cannot substantiate, are wrong.

I shall report this thread to Admin. If they decide to remove it, then you'll know who it was. ;)

Alec.
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Surely if its good enough for the BBC, its good enough for HHO ?
 
This was featured on Farming Today Radio Four, more than two weeks ago. USPCA, thought they were investigating 'welfare' issues but soon realised that horses they saw were being coralled for the meat market.

They discovered criminals were able to obtain m/chips on the net and forge passports with a DIY printing kit. They estimated that 70,000 horses disappeared.

The Director of the French National Stud has been campaigning for m/chips to be related to country of issue.

We have seen a number of questions asked on the breeding forum, where imported horses have the wrong passport and the source of the m/chip cannot be identified.
 
horserider said:
Surely if its good enough for the BBC, its good enough for HHO ?
Click to expand...

The BBC reporting facts which can be substantiated, is one thing. Forum speculation is an entirely different matter. Should the Company mentioned be damaged by what is said on here, then they will have a justifiable claim to restitution.

Alec.
 
The company is local to me. It does not enjoy a good reputation already.

However, if worried about a company's reptutation, perhaps HHO should trawl through all the posts about tack shops, saddlers and the RSPCA.

It could become very quiet on here.
 
go onto the crosskennan lane animal sanctuary, you will find a full copy of the letter sent by them to DARD in 2009, regarding the yarding of horses for meat. Crosskennan are doing exceptional work in trying to change the system of passporting. Also as an english person living in Northern Ireland for some 40 years, can I please point out that some of the best horses in world in most horse sports have been bred or have come from Ireland. Including 3 that were bought by family members still living in England. Please do not throw stones at good breeders/producers of horses over here. You have rubbish in England being sold as good, just like everywhere else in the world. Buyer beware is very true, be it dog, car, horse or loaf of bread.
 
Alec Swan said:
There are most certain inconsistencies within that article, so to make accusations, which they cannot substantiate, are wrong.

I shall report this thread to Admin. If they decide to remove it, then you'll know who it was. ;)

Alec.
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Are you saying I should not have posted this Alec, everyone was just trying to highlight the joke of horse passports, before an amendment about 3 years ago, this abattoir (along with Potters) could actually issue a passport when a horse arrived to be Slaughtred
 
Potters do it right apparently.
Why can't Red Lion???????
If its good enough for the BBC and Sky News and Channel 4 then it's good enough for HHO
and the
 
Bertieb123 said:
Are you saying I should not have posted this Alec, everyone was just trying to highlight the joke of horse passports, before an amendment about 3 years ago, this abattoir (along with Potters) could actually issue a passport when a horse arrived to be Slaughtred
Click to expand...

No Bertieb, I'm not saying that. Not at all. We all have a voice and we mostly, all have an opinion.

What I'm saying is that as with the other threads, which run parallel with this one, the temptation is for others to make defamatory remarks about the two remaining abattoirs which take in horses, provide a much needed service, AND though I may be wrong on this point, have previously, or do now advertise with the H&H.

As with the other threads which cover this subject, it's my view, and I'm not alone, that the remaining abattoir facilities need supporting and improving, both in their facilities and their ethics. The one thing that those abattoirs don't need is having their existence vilified.

I agree with you, that the passport system is a complete shambles, but then, with the exception of the Jockey Club, it always has been, since it's inception. Now what we have, is;

We have a cancellation of the NED, which has opened the door, once again to crime and corruption.

We have a Page IX which allows others to devalue the horse which they are selling, and it's a page which is open to interpretation, and almost certain manipulation.

We have a needless scare mongering approach regarding the fear of Bute, when the reality is that it was previously administered to humans, but because of the minutest risk from the drug it was withdrawn, and now, also in minute dosages for horses there is a perceived risk from the equally reduced risk from retention, within meat.

Once again; Properly licensed and regulated and managed and run abattoirs must be the way forward. There are steps being taken to achieve this end, but the stumbling block seems to be the equine based groups and organisations who are fearful of the backlash which may well follow from those who believe that every horse in the world should pass peacefully way, in its sleep. Such an end may work for one tenth of one percent of all horses. For the remainder, humane destruction is the reality.

Once again, it wasn't my intention to silence anyone, but to hopefully curb the often avalanche like properties of such threads.

Alec.
 
Thank god a like minded person!
Alec Swan said:
No Bertieb, I'm not saying that. Not at all. We all have a voice and we mostly, all have an opinion.

What I'm saying is that as with the other threads, which run parallel with this one, the temptation is for others to make defamatory remarks about the two remaining abattoirs which take in horses, provide a much needed service, AND though I may be wrong on this point, have previously, or do now advertise with the H&H.

As with the other threads which cover this subject, it's my view, and I'm not alone, that the remaining abattoir facilities need supporting and improving, both in their facilities and their ethics. The one thing that those abattoirs don't need is having their existence vilified.

I agree with you, that the passport system is a complete shambles, but then, with the exception of the Jockey Club, it always has been, since it's inception. Now what we have, is;

We have a cancellation of the NED, which has opened the door, once again to crime and corruption.

We have a Page IX which allows others to devalue the horse which they are selling, and it's a page which is open to interpretation, and almost certain manipulation.

We have a needless scare mongering approach regarding the fear of Bute, when the reality is that it was previously administered to humans, but because of the minutest risk from the drug it was withdrawn, and now, also in minute dosages for horses there is a perceived risk from the equally reduced risk from retention, within meat.

Once again; Properly licensed and regulated and managed and run abattoirs must be the way forward. There are steps being taken to achieve this end, but the stumbling block seems to be the equine based groups and organisations who are fearful of the backlash which may well follow from those who believe that every horse in the world should pass peacefully way, in its sleep. Such an end may work for one tenth of one percent of all horses. For the remainder, humane destruction is the reality.

Once again, it wasn't my intention to silence anyone, but to hopefully curb the often avalanche like properties of such threads.

Alec.
Click to expand...
 
If The Red Lion is found to have practised illegally and breeched welfare regulations and acted with gross cruelty, then of course there is no question that the company should have its licence revoked.

I've sure the racehorse industry will back a new operator to resume business faster than the next lorry can make it to Cheshire.
 
Alec Swan said:
No Bertieb, I'm not saying that. Not at all. We all have a voice and we mostly, all have an opinion.

What I'm saying is that as with the other threads, which run parallel with this one, the temptation is for others to make defamatory remarks about the two remaining abattoirs which take in horses, provide a much needed service, AND though I may be wrong on this point, have previously, or do now advertise with the H&H.

As with the other threads which cover this subject, it's my view, and I'm not alone, that the remaining abattoir facilities need supporting and improving, both in their facilities and their ethics. The one thing that those abattoirs don't need is having their existence vilified.

I agree with you, that the passport system is a complete shambles, but then, with the exception of the Jockey Club, it always has been, since it's inception. Now what we have, is;

We have a cancellation of the NED, which has opened the door, once again to crime and corruption.

We have a Page IX which allows others to devalue the horse which they are selling, and it's a page which is open to interpretation, and almost certain manipulation.

We have a needless scare mongering approach regarding the fear of Bute, when the reality is that it was previously administered to humans, but because of the minutest risk from the drug it was withdrawn, and now, also in minute dosages for horses there is a perceived risk from the equally reduced risk from retention, within meat.

Once again; Properly licensed and regulated and managed and run abattoirs must be the way forward. There are steps being taken to achieve this end, but the stumbling block seems to be the equine based groups and organisations who are fearful of the backlash which may well follow from those who believe that every horse in the world should pass peacefully way, in its sleep. Such an end may work for one tenth of one percent of all horses. For the remainder, humane destruction is the reality.

Once again, it wasn't my intention to silence anyone, but to hopefully curb the often avalanche like properties of such threads.

Alec.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you BUT the public, media and some of the 'do gooders' do need educating in certain areas though, I have seen the recent footage from Red Lion and yes there are some things wrong (personally I would rather a free bullet than captive bolt on horses) multiple numbers in the stun box etc.... but the horse hanging up WAS stunned to the trained eye you would see this, the untrained eye would think the animal was conscious. There are two phases after stunning, Tonic, the animal lies still and rigid, rear legs usually retracted towards body and Clonic where the animal will have uncontrolled convulsions and kicking movements, to the untrained eye it would look like the horse (or any animal) was conscious. People need educating and I get real angry with media writing stuff they know nothing about. I support horse slaughter houses in the UK, It is the way forward, It would stop the LIVE export of horses. Lets just make sure it done properly within the regs and sort the passport issue out!
 
Alec Swan said:
The BBC reporting facts which can be substantiated, is one thing. Forum speculation is an entirely different matter. Should the Company mentioned be damaged by what is said on here, then they will have a justifiable claim to restitution.

Alec.
Click to expand...

Oh the hypocrisy and double standards...:rolleyes:
 
horserider said:
....... then of course there is no question that the company should have its licence revoked.

I'm sure the racehorse industry will back a new operator to resume business faster than the next lorry can make it to Cheshire.
Click to expand...

The footage presented was obtained by trespass, and therefore can't be used in a Court of Law. Such film, I suspect, would also be ineligible were the authorities to attempt to revoke a licence.

Your second paragraph, I agree with. There are, so I understand, a further 10 premises across the UK which still hold licences. They could and perhaps should be re-opened for business.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
The footage presented was obtained by trespass, and therefore can't be used in a Court of Law. Such film, I suspect, would also be ineligible were the authorities to attempt to revoke a licence.

Your second paragraph, I agree with. There are, so I understand, a further 10 premises across the UK which still hold licences. They could and perhaps should be re-opened for business.

Alec.[/QUOTE Agree they should all be re-opened there is a need for it, as for Turners, Red Lion, High Peak whatever its called I sure they are being investigated, and I hope they not shut down, there are lessons to be learned, lets hope they are.
Click to expand...
 
Alec Swan said:
The footage presented was obtained by trespass, and therefore can't be used in a Court of Law. Such film, I suspect, would also be ineligible were the authorities to attempt to revoke a licence.
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't know.

Hillside investigations team have had a few successes.

You may be familiar with them coming from Norfolk. They've uncovered illegal slaughter houses for sheep, one in Norfolk, Bernard Matthews employees using live turkeys to play base ball with and other abuses both local to you and nationally.
 
horserider said:
Oh, I don't know.

Hillside investigations team have had a few successes.

You may be familiar with them coming from Norfolk. They've uncovered illegal slaughter houses for sheep, one in Norfolk, Bernard Matthews employees using live turkeys to play base ball with and other abuses both local to you and nationally.
Click to expand...

:D

I wouldn't disagree with Alec, Horserider, he knows EVERYTHING. Didn't you know that?! :rolleyes:
 
horserider said:
Oh, I don't know.

Hillside investigations team have had a few successes.

You may be familiar with them coming from Norfolk. They've uncovered illegal slaughter houses for sheep, one in Norfolk, Bernard Matthews employees using live turkeys to play base ball with and other abuses both local to you and nationally.
Click to expand...

Wrong.

Alec.
 
I deplore the abuse that is alleged to have happened as much as any horse lover.
However, nothing on earth would persuade me to gift any animal to Hillside. Therefore I view their findings with a small, but still flavouring, pinch of salt.
 
Norfolk Pie said:
I deplore the abuse that is alleged to have happened as much as any horse lover.
However, nothing on earth would persuade me to gift any animal to Hillside. Therefore I view their findings with a small, but still flavouring, pinch of salt.
Click to expand...

You must know something that the Food Standards Agency, British Horse Racing Authority, BBC Investigations and Sky News Investigations don't know then.
Two slaughtermen from the Red Lion had their licences immediately revoked and the slaughterhouse is currently being investigated for illegal practice, animal cruelty and passport fraud.

And fortunately, the CPS and courts have taken some of Hillside's previous investigations seriously enough to prosecute and convict animal welfare breeches.

What is needed is professional and lawful slaughter of unwanted horses. Turning a blind eye to malpractice is never acceptable.
 
horserider said:
You must know something that the Food Standards Agency, British Horse Racing Authority, BBC Investigations and Sky News Investigations don't know then.
Two slaughtermen from the Red Lion had their licences immediately revoked and the slaughterhouse is currently being investigated for illegal practice, animal cruelty and passport fraud.

And fortunately, the CPS and courts have taken some of Hillside's previous investigations seriously enough to prosecute and convict animal welfare breeches.

What is needed is professional and lawful slaughter of unwanted horses. Turning a blind eye to malpractice is never acceptable.
Click to expand...

Ofcourse it's not. FYI I make more fuss about things than most.

I repeat, I deplore the abuse. Of course those found accountable should be dealt with. I do not, for a single millisecond, condone any of them.

However, as far as I'm aware, the information is from Hillside. Hillside do not rank high in my list of worthwhile charities. There are numerous reasons, none of which have bearing to this post, but all of which relate to their supposed Welfare beliefs. Therefore I would prefer to have all the facts (rather than situations that MAY have been twisted to try and further certain peoples agendas) in front of me, which I currently don't, before taking their evidence as gospel. There are plenty of rumours, and there may well have been facts now substantiated, but I haven't caught up with those as yet.

My personal opinion is many owners need to take a good look at their responsibilities to their horses before selling them on. PTS at home (or, if finances dictate, a slaughterhouse) is a much more responsible attitude than allowing someone else to make the decision who couldn't give two hoots about the horses welfare.

I have a low opinion of anyone who fails to take care of or train their horse in a sufficiently responsible way that it is desirable to anyone else if it should need to be moved on. :)
 
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