Refusals jumping......any thoughts?

[4whitesocks]

To be honest I actually know the answers to this one before I even write this but need a good moan so.....

short background - rising 6yo gelding, loads of ability, had a few outings in teh summer but only now really starting to work. He's very very clever....has a great jump but won't 'carry me' - if he gets any sense I'm not committed he won't do it BUT stopping has not been an issue - previous reaction has been to run out.....

Lesson last night - wasn't in great form & for some reason was quite nervous....dunno why as had jumped a course of 85/90cm on Saturday at the yard after our first outing to some local clear round jumping on Friday night and he went really well....anyhoo last night there was an 85cm course set up which we went straight into after a couple of fences....

The brat started to stop.....sliding straight into the first of a double, they put it down a few holes but the bad behaviour continued...unseated me with a cat jump when we eventually made it over it but one dog leg he just kept stopping. Now I reckon a lot of it was down to me as I froze a little coming into the first one he stopped at and he thought - 'wayhey I see a way out of this' but it was a self-fulfilling prophesy.....got worse and worse and I got more and more stressed...I really should have just popped him one as soon as he started to misbehave but I'm crap at reacting on time.

In the end YO got up and jumped him round, he stopped on her too at that dog-leg but she had a row with him and in the end he was jumping out of his skin, jumped the dog leg in a straight line if you know what I mean...got back up again and got him over it but am soooo peed off with myself for letting him get away with bad behaviour....her take on it is he could jump 75cm til the cows come home without any effort whatsoever and as the fences get a little bigger he has to do some work - he's basically been coasting up to now...
Any thoughts or recommendations?

 

[AmyMay]

Amymay has a filthy stop in her - but a wonderful jump. Like your horse - if I wasn't 'there' for her she knew it and would stop.

I came to the conclussion years ago that if a horse doesn't want to jump (and they all can) then they don't want to - end of story. Bullying them isn't the answer and will only serve to knock their confidence further.

However, you don't sound enormously like a confidence giver yourself to your youngster - which could obviously be the main issue. If you aren't able to help him then I wouldn't jump him.

 

[ljubb]

Loose jumping if cone corrctly with a jumping alley and built up over time will build up the horses confidence and teach him that he can do it for himself - without the need for a rider and in some cases without the hinderance of a rider.

Because they then know that they can cope with whatever is in front of them when a rider is on they dont rely on you to be spot perfect and will carry on jumping - providin gthe rider is not interferring.

If you are not confident try and jump a school master for a while - this will help you be braver.

Good luck

 

[4whitesocks]

Hmmm, fair enough, but we can and have jumped up to 1/1m5cm, as much as any horse can be said to 'enjoy' jumping, he does, and sure I wasn't in a particularly confident mood last night so perhaps shouldn't have ridden but he did the same for YO when she hopped on (mind you this was after a few stops for me so was proably just repeating 'learned behaviour').

We have been comfortably jumping this height every Tuesday and Saturday for the last month or so....maybe I should just accept we had on off night and get on with it....

 

[4whitesocks]

Actually not sure he has ever been loose jumped (got him in April he was backed previous October/November) - might mention it to YO...

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, fair enough, but we can and have jumped up to 1/1m5cm, as much as any horse can be said to 'enjoy' jumping, he does, and sure I wasn't in a particularly confident mood last night so perhaps shouldn't have ridden but he did the same for YO when she hopped on (mind you this was after a few stops for me so was proably just repeating 'learned behaviour').

We have been comfortably jumping this height every Tuesday and Saturday for the last month or so....maybe I should just accept we had on off night and get on with it....

[/ QUOTE ]

Amy would jump styles etc when out hunting, but some days wouldn't even go over a poxy cross pole in the school - height has nothing to do with it sorry.

Not trying to pick an argument - although it sounds like it, sorry.

 

[4whitesocks]

No worries at all Amymay! I'm just ridiculously sensitive & paranoid (my old YO told me I should drop down a grade in Riding Club because I was really nervous out jumping last Friday - really peed me off because I really felt we were making good progress, and we are, I think everyone gets nervous their first time out in a new environment)

Anyway - I think it was down to me - that whole 'what's in the brain goes down the reins' thing so I guess the lesson is if I'm not 'feeling it' then thee's no point expecting him to do it for me!

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway - I think it was down to me - that whole 'what's in the brain goes down the reins' thing so I guess the lesson is if I'm not 'feeling it' then thee's no point expecting him to do it for me!

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely - I couldn't compete Amy because of it - turned in to a whole pile of mush!!!!

 

[PapaFrita]

When I first started jumping PF in the UK she had a bit of a stop in her. When I came to Argentina and started working with her properly, it stopped. Now, I think there were 2 reasons for her stopping; one was that I was nervous and not riding her properly and she detected my lack of confidence (once her confidence was lost she would stop several times!) and the other was that being unbalanced she liked to jump at warp 5 and going slower was too hard, hence the brakes.
Do you think either of those could be contributing factors. Now I'm more confident and have been taking things slowly, she wouldn't dream of stopping

 

[Kelly1982]

From what you have said it definatly sounds like he sensed your nerves. Especially seen as your instructor got on him and even though he tried it on he realised he couldn't get away with it and jumped well for her.

Every youngster i have had has always looked to me for confidence and if i didn't have it then it would usually result in a stop. They need that extra bit of encouragement.

Dont beat yourself up about it though, you said you have only just started working him properly so of course confidence is going to be low for both of you at first, thats normal. Just build up gradually and try not to push yourselves too much too soon. Also work on your approach and rythmn more than the height but you probably already know that

 

[4whitesocks]

Thanks PF....he can jump from any pace & at any speed to be honest, have done a good bit of work jumping out of trot over bigger fences to get him to really use himself properly...so we don't have the warp 5 issue - in fact if I take the leg off at any stage he'll just drop back to trot on me so I really have to 'ride him' all the time. He's pretty well balanced at this stage, he can turn on a sixpence & jump a fence at any angle (very clever with himself). I reckon on mature reflection (once my wounded pride calms down a bit) that it was about him detecting the lack of confidence in me - which is the only difference between my ride last night & my ride on Saturday - Sat was on a big high after getting around an indoor on him on Friday night & we pinged it! For some reason last night just didn't gel for me but I even said it to the other girls in the lesson before we started that I wasn't really in the form for it....
Onwards and upwards...positive mental attitude from now on

 

[vicm2509]

My horse is a little the same as yours. He used to run out at jumps, I got him out of the habbit and he has started to stop at them occasionally. He hasnt done much in the way of jumping although he is 7 and is not a confident horse and finds anything new a little scary.

My new instructor pointed out (before seeing him jump) that the problem could be very much to do with his paces as he has a big canter. Also he has been allowed to get away with such behaviour by whoever taught him to jump.

If he refuses at home I lower the jump to such a point that he can jump it from stand, so if he does stop I give him a smack and he will jump it. He really loves jumping he just finds new jumps scary and it is difficult to pace him as his stride is so long, we are working on this and have got it quite good now and it really makes a difference.

I also agree with loose schooling or lunging. My boy would kick up the biggest fuss ever when I tried to lunge him over jumps and I would end up with bad rope burns on my hands. More recently I started lunging over trotting poles, then added a small cross at the end. Then canter poles with jump at the end which really encouraged him to shorten his stride. He now jumps 3ft on the lunge, with scary fillers. This has improved his confidence to no end and he is now so much better to jump. May be worth a try?

Also try a more forward seat, I know if your horse has a habbit of stopping or running out then the rider tends to develop a habbit of sitting with a deeper seat and more upright, just try lightening it a bit for a few circuits before popping a jump, this really helped baron as he found it more encouraging.

 

[MrsMagoo]

Hi..i totally feel for you on this issue. Got my new mare beginning last year and started of really well, went to RC team champs, competed BSJA BN getting DC etc then as we have come into winter it's all gone tits up...the last time we went out SJ shes refused and dumped me twice. This was after having a few weeks of competing. When jumping at home, she has also started stopping, even with somone else onboard!!!

Now not really sure what the issues are on my case - 1. prob confidence from the last time etc, now I'm nervouse jumping 2. is she just playing up cause she has had a month etc of competing and liked it better when we were competing more 3. does she not enjoy it anymore etc???

I am going to get her saddle checked as the last time was when it was actually fitted last year....but any other ideas anyone??? PLEASE

 

[JoBo]

It’s too the extreme but Otto my last horse was a bit like this and in the end I sold him as a ‘happy hacker’ as just felt jumping wasn’t his thing. I’m sure this isn’t the case with your boy though and you will solve it soon.

Well that didn’t help, did it?

 

[CLS.]

maybe should give him a break from jumping every tuesday and thursday night, he could possibly be bored???

 

[4whitesocks]

LadyM it does sound like your lady might have tweaked something or that maybe it is her saddle, can't do any harm to get it checked anyway - such a big change from how she went last year seems quite extreme...with Sid it has (so far!) just been the one occasion but we'll see how he goes on Friday

 

[4whitesocks]

Cheers JoBO!!! The thing is that jumping does actually appear to be his thing so we'll just sit tight & see how things pan out! I really shouldn't be such a drama queen though to be fair!

 

[4whitesocks]

CLS it's only recently that we are jumping this much - I have mainly been working on his flatwork but with the chance to get him out and about a bit I have been trying to improve myself.....he gets hacked out once or twice a week, couple of flatwork sessions and was hunted on Sunday for the first time since I've owned him (got a guy from the yard to take him out for the first time just in case of any drama) - he was good as gold apart from being a bit careless at a fence or two. I did think maybe he might have tweaked something and this could be what's bothering him but will see how the rest of tehe week's riding goes. He's on full schooling livery (am trying to get as much education as possible into him before I bring him home to live with me in the summer) so will ask YO if she would consider loose jumping him....thankfully she's quite understanding of my drama's and is very fond of Sid - she reckons he's extremely talented but also a clever little sod...

 

[TarrSteps]

I'm sure this is unrelated to the original post but this thread is really interesting to me as a foreigner. In the first post it really does seem like you had a bad day and, at the very least, judgement should be reserved.

It's stories about horses who jump well then suddenly stop doing so that intrigue me. By this I mean a horse whose training is in place, who jumps well and seems enthusiastic, and whose situation has not changed. It's pretty common here now to assume that a horse who seems to be jumping well but all of a sudden starts to stop might be experiencing pain. (Also true of horses who start to run out of the blue) I'm not saying it's the only cause and I am NOT a fan of medical intervention just for the sake of it (I know some people who have joints injected "just because" and I think that's insane) but I've seen more than one horse regain it's former form with no other change but veterinary intervention.

Just a thought for an ongoing problem.

 

[CLS.]

Sounds like he could be tired from hunting on sunday then or a bit sore? Give him a few days off and see how he comes back. As well with youngsters I believe they cant get mentally tired which is often more tiring than purely physical if that makes sense? Im sure a bit of rest and he will get his sparkle back.