Saratoga
Well-Known Member
Agree, there is a bit difference between a gripping thigh and a closed thigh. Gripping thighs stop the horse travelling forwards, therefore giving mixed signals to the horse when paired with a kicking lower leg/spur.
'Relax' your thigh/knee? Classical V conventional dressage - what do you do??
- Thread starter Arkmiido
- Start date
Agree, there is a bit difference between a gripping thigh and a closed thigh. Gripping thighs stop the horse travelling forwards, therefore giving mixed signals to the horse when paired with a kicking lower leg/spur.
Pasha
Well-Known Member
I used to have sporadic lessons with my YM (AI who competed Dressage up to Medium and trained with an International Dressage Rider). I was doing ok but didn't really 'know' what I was doing if that makes sense. I then took part in a Mary Wanless Demo a few years ago and to be honest, she didn't change much about my riding, in fact she said I bear down naturally which according to her is a good thing 
So having had a confidence boost I started training with a RWYM Instructor - after about a year I happened to have a lesson with a friend's trainer as she was at the yard and I was riding her horse for her and it only took one session to see the error of my ways... I was tense, lacking in confidence and over analysing everything! Literally iof somethign went wrong I would worry about it for days afterwards
The new trainer used to be married to one of our country's top trainers (and is the daughter of a list 1 judge) and spent 2 years in Vienna with him whilst he trained at the SRS! She made more of a difference in one session than all my previous lessons put together! She doesn't 'label' herself Classical or Modern - she is just interested in training the horse and rider to perform to their best ability and minimise injury!
She did lots of 'thighs off' and 'knees off' with me at the beginning, but that was to get me to RELAX and SIT on the horse, rather than "actually" riding with my thighs and knees off! See used to tell me to 'try and ride like Carl Hester' which at the time we used to laugh about, but now if things are going wrong, I think to myself 'try and ride like Carl' and my position immediately improves
I trained with her for 2 years and only switched recently due to financial reasons and the fact that i've spent the season showing so have been having lessons with a judge.... now I don't really concentrate on anything much rather than SITTING ON MY BUM and LIFTING UP THROUGH MY TUMMY and then rest sort of takes care of itself! My current trainer also trained with the former trainers husband, so is a very similar style, although she is tougher on me - if I haven't seen her for a couple of weeks we would have reverted back to being a bit lazy off the leg - she does like to have an instant reaction and NO NAGGING which suits me! Less work for me lol!
Personally I find alot of these techniques just too confusing for me and I think you can spend too much time analysing stuff rather than riding! I think you find what suits you and your horse and that's all you can do realy!
So having had a confidence boost I started training with a RWYM Instructor - after about a year I happened to have a lesson with a friend's trainer as she was at the yard and I was riding her horse for her and it only took one session to see the error of my ways... I was tense, lacking in confidence and over analysing everything! Literally iof somethign went wrong I would worry about it for days afterwards
The new trainer used to be married to one of our country's top trainers (and is the daughter of a list 1 judge) and spent 2 years in Vienna with him whilst he trained at the SRS! She made more of a difference in one session than all my previous lessons put together! She doesn't 'label' herself Classical or Modern - she is just interested in training the horse and rider to perform to their best ability and minimise injury!
She did lots of 'thighs off' and 'knees off' with me at the beginning, but that was to get me to RELAX and SIT on the horse, rather than "actually" riding with my thighs and knees off! See used to tell me to 'try and ride like Carl Hester' which at the time we used to laugh about, but now if things are going wrong, I think to myself 'try and ride like Carl' and my position immediately improves
I trained with her for 2 years and only switched recently due to financial reasons and the fact that i've spent the season showing so have been having lessons with a judge.... now I don't really concentrate on anything much rather than SITTING ON MY BUM and LIFTING UP THROUGH MY TUMMY and then rest sort of takes care of itself! My current trainer also trained with the former trainers husband, so is a very similar style, although she is tougher on me - if I haven't seen her for a couple of weeks we would have reverted back to being a bit lazy off the leg - she does like to have an instant reaction and NO NAGGING which suits me! Less work for me lol!
Personally I find alot of these techniques just too confusing for me and I think you can spend too much time analysing stuff rather than riding! I think you find what suits you and your horse and that's all you can do realy!
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
In the last few years I have been taught by a classical (French school) instructor, who I've been having lessons with for about 12 months, a BHSAI, a professional dressage rider, a professional SJer (who I have been having jumping lessons with for the last 4 or 5 months), and a couple of eventers...
Not one of them has ever told me to grip with my knees constantly, nor have they said there should be a large visible gap between the saddle and my thighs. All of them have said just let your leg hang and use it when required - squeeze with thigh for half halt/rebalance and tighten stomach muscles to stop/downwards transition. The biggest difference I've found between the BHSAI and the DR rider, as compared to the classical instructor, is use of seatbones during a downwards transition. The two former taught me to sit more heavily in the seat when stopping whereas the classical instructor taught me to lighten my seatbones to allow the horse to come up underneath me during the downwards transition.
I wonder if people are being taught to ride with a "gap" between saddle and thigh to teach that they shouldn't be gripping, as I guess an instructor can't teach someone *how* to use their thighs whilst they're gripping constantly with them. A bit like teaching someone who leans forwards a lot to sit up straight by telling them to feel like they're leaning right back. It feels very over exaggerated but is probably just taking them to somewhere nearer to a more correct position... And you can't show someone how to get their horse moving forwards consistently if they always have the handbrake on.
Not one of them has ever told me to grip with my knees constantly, nor have they said there should be a large visible gap between the saddle and my thighs. All of them have said just let your leg hang and use it when required - squeeze with thigh for half halt/rebalance and tighten stomach muscles to stop/downwards transition. The biggest difference I've found between the BHSAI and the DR rider, as compared to the classical instructor, is use of seatbones during a downwards transition. The two former taught me to sit more heavily in the seat when stopping whereas the classical instructor taught me to lighten my seatbones to allow the horse to come up underneath me during the downwards transition.
I wonder if people are being taught to ride with a "gap" between saddle and thigh to teach that they shouldn't be gripping, as I guess an instructor can't teach someone *how* to use their thighs whilst they're gripping constantly with them. A bit like teaching someone who leans forwards a lot to sit up straight by telling them to feel like they're leaning right back. It feels very over exaggerated but is probably just taking them to somewhere nearer to a more correct position... And you can't show someone how to get their horse moving forwards consistently if they always have the handbrake on.
1life
...
For me this is the post that has hit the nail on the head. We have soooo many bands of strong muscle holding our lovely girly hips in position that until we allow them to relax our legs will never 'fall into position'. A good smooth contact throughout the whole leg can only be achieved by starting much higher up. I would recommend any rider to try a few sessions at a good yoga class to locate and start to stretch/relax said muscles.
1life
...
Prince33Sp4rkle
Well-Known Member
i dont think my thigh looks *loose/off* in pics, but after actually really thinking about this whilst riding tonight, it is def very soft and just resting softly except when i am asking for a lot of increased collection, eg comming in to my simple change canter, pirouette canter or passage.and even then it isnt clamped.
MinnieDuke
Active Member
hi there
what agreat thread
I have a couple of points to add
1 - there are no muscles in the lower leg that can "adduct" ie move inwards towards the horse - so when a trainer and I have had many who tell me to put my lower leg on (like what does that really mean?) i have to challenge them to be more clear as to what they really want as it is anatomically impossible - any contact by the lower leg can only come from the inner thigh muscles. needless to say i have gone through a few trainers who dont understand this simple fact. And If you look at the top level riders you very very rarely see any thigh off ...
2 - if you are supposed to take your thighs off - what then connects you to the horse? how can you stay balanced? You have to connect somewhere (why else would they make saddles with knee rolls etc). the way you connect has to be in a way that stablises you the rider but also to encourages and gives the horse the room to move - establishing your stability is the most important thing to get before moving onto the next pieces of the puzzle. I have come across quite a few people who say they let gravity do its work I really feel are missing the point - and many that follow this are often flappy, wiggly wobbly, shovvy riders - bevause they dont have this connection and stability they orrrrrften fall orrrrf because they have no real connection with whats going on underneath them.
I know for a fact that the top level riders are often in thigh burn and abs burn as well. Its a big deal to ride those horses they have to match the power of the horses they are riding. This requires a siignificant amount of strength to hold, collect, stbilise and influence these phenominal horses. I noticed on of the other comments about people teaching thighs off but when you watch them ride their thighs are most definitely on - maybe they dont even realise they are doing it.....
I think as you get more advanced there becomes an on/off thing that goes on with your thighs - with my horse there are times when my thighs are super on (ie when he shoots off with me - spooks) and they definitely help me collect him and extend him but then there are time when he needs more space so they come off a bit but they are always there! But most of all they are there to stabilise me so that i dont wobble ontop of him - the more I can stay in balance the better i can influence him - my core, my thighs let me achieve this - in jumping and in dressage
Your thighs are never ever off.
Try sitting on a core stability ball as you would on horse - take your feet off the ground and see if you can take your thighs off! i cant imagine without your thighs this position would give you a good power base. Get your thighs on and you will stablise yourself - when you get into a good blanace they may come off a bit ....If you got onto a rodeo bull even at the slowest speed your thigs will go on or you will fall off!
Hope this helps and ps I've just come back from RWYM course and the videos we watched of ourselves were absolutly conclusive that thighs need to be on because you loose so much when they are not there ....
what agreat thread
I have a couple of points to add
1 - there are no muscles in the lower leg that can "adduct" ie move inwards towards the horse - so when a trainer and I have had many who tell me to put my lower leg on (like what does that really mean?) i have to challenge them to be more clear as to what they really want as it is anatomically impossible - any contact by the lower leg can only come from the inner thigh muscles. needless to say i have gone through a few trainers who dont understand this simple fact. And If you look at the top level riders you very very rarely see any thigh off ...
2 - if you are supposed to take your thighs off - what then connects you to the horse? how can you stay balanced? You have to connect somewhere (why else would they make saddles with knee rolls etc). the way you connect has to be in a way that stablises you the rider but also to encourages and gives the horse the room to move - establishing your stability is the most important thing to get before moving onto the next pieces of the puzzle. I have come across quite a few people who say they let gravity do its work I really feel are missing the point - and many that follow this are often flappy, wiggly wobbly, shovvy riders - bevause they dont have this connection and stability they orrrrrften fall orrrrf because they have no real connection with whats going on underneath them.
I know for a fact that the top level riders are often in thigh burn and abs burn as well. Its a big deal to ride those horses they have to match the power of the horses they are riding. This requires a siignificant amount of strength to hold, collect, stbilise and influence these phenominal horses. I noticed on of the other comments about people teaching thighs off but when you watch them ride their thighs are most definitely on - maybe they dont even realise they are doing it.....
I think as you get more advanced there becomes an on/off thing that goes on with your thighs - with my horse there are times when my thighs are super on (ie when he shoots off with me - spooks) and they definitely help me collect him and extend him but then there are time when he needs more space so they come off a bit but they are always there! But most of all they are there to stabilise me so that i dont wobble ontop of him - the more I can stay in balance the better i can influence him - my core, my thighs let me achieve this - in jumping and in dressage
Your thighs are never ever off.
Try sitting on a core stability ball as you would on horse - take your feet off the ground and see if you can take your thighs off! i cant imagine without your thighs this position would give you a good power base. Get your thighs on and you will stablise yourself - when you get into a good blanace they may come off a bit ....If you got onto a rodeo bull even at the slowest speed your thigs will go on or you will fall off!
Hope this helps and ps I've just come back from RWYM course and the videos we watched of ourselves were absolutly conclusive that thighs need to be on because you loose so much when they are not there ....
MinnieDuke
Active Member
love the pics - just put a long winded post up - the pics give your thighs a good rounded look which indicates they are "on" - the angles of your heel / knee / hip are really good angels and to keep these angles a certain level of thigh on is necessary or you would be a lot more wobbly - you cant see from the stills but if your thigh wasnt on you'd have flappy legs ... it would have to be on video - one thing is that you probably use them without knowing that you are using them to the level you are - as there are plenty of peole really not using them at all or not noticing that they are actually using them more ... remeber what its like when you havent ridden for a week or two you come back and your muscles ache : because you are using them 
kerilli
Well-Known Member
MinnieDuke, good points, but i'd quibble with a couple, if i may!
I agree that the thigh has to be 'on' (unless rider is sitting up there like a frog!) but it doesn't have to be tight.
If the thighs are tight around the horse, they'll hinder his movement. This is 2nd hand, but i was told Chris Bartle describes this as being like 'asking a ballet dancer to perform in a tight pair of jeans'.
As for it being impossible to move the lower leg inwards without using the thigh muscles... It depends on the angle of the knee. If the leg is straight-ish, i agree with you, BUT if the knee is angled slightly outwards (but still lying against the knee roll) & the hips are open, the lower leg can be swung inwards easily ('as if you're trying to kick a football sideways' as 1 instructor put it.)
Lots of riders do this, especially when flicking the lower legs on and off.
I agree that the thigh has to be 'on' (unless rider is sitting up there like a frog!) but it doesn't have to be tight.
If the thighs are tight around the horse, they'll hinder his movement. This is 2nd hand, but i was told Chris Bartle describes this as being like 'asking a ballet dancer to perform in a tight pair of jeans'.
As for it being impossible to move the lower leg inwards without using the thigh muscles... It depends on the angle of the knee. If the leg is straight-ish, i agree with you, BUT if the knee is angled slightly outwards (but still lying against the knee roll) & the hips are open, the lower leg can be swung inwards easily ('as if you're trying to kick a football sideways' as 1 instructor put it.)
Lots of riders do this, especially when flicking the lower legs on and off.
Equus Leather
Well-Known Member
QR
I've never had a RWYM lesson.
I have, however, always been taught that your hips should be open, thigh relaxed and open, knee pointed to 2 and 10 o clock and weight taken lightly down into the heel.
I've never had a RWYM lesson.
I have, however, always been taught that your hips should be open, thigh relaxed and open, knee pointed to 2 and 10 o clock and weight taken lightly down into the heel.
cobface
Well-Known Member
When i learnt to ride aged 5 (a whole 24 yrs ago) i was told to never grip with my knees, its something i have never done. I have had countless lesson at different stages of my life and i always get positive comments about my position, however i did have a male instructor start of the year and all he would shout at me was grip with your knees!! this would just make my lower leg shoot forwards??
I now have a dressage trainer and i dont grip with my knees - and no she never mentions it to me??
Are you meant to grip or not?!
i was told to never grip with my knees, its something i have never done. I have had countless lesson at different stages of my life and i always get positive comments about my position, however i did have a male instructor start of the year and all he would shout at me was grip with your knees!! this would just make my lower leg shoot forwards?? I now have a dressage trainer and i dont grip with my knees - and no she never mentions it to me??
Are you meant to grip or not?!
little_critter
Well-Known Member
I've just come back from my monthly schoolmaster lesson (big grin) and to paraphase my instructor your whole leg should be 'on' but not gripping. Wrapped round the horse like a wet blanket.
The top half of your leg is for 'stop' - gripping / tensing will 'block' the horse and it will slow down / stop.
The bottom half of your leg is 'go' ie. nudging to go forwards.
If you do both at once you get collection - 'go' but not very 'forward'.
She's better at explaining than I am!
In addition to this you must have loose (not floppy) lower back and hips to allow the horse forwards and allow his movement. New mantra "swing with the hips, swing with the hips...."
The top half of your leg is for 'stop' - gripping / tensing will 'block' the horse and it will slow down / stop.
The bottom half of your leg is 'go' ie. nudging to go forwards.
If you do both at once you get collection - 'go' but not very 'forward'.
She's better at explaining than I am!
In addition to this you must have loose (not floppy) lower back and hips to allow the horse forwards and allow his movement. New mantra "swing with the hips, swing with the hips...."
Holly Hocks
Well-Known Member
I have had lessons from a classical instructor for the last couple of years and this is what I was taught- I had struggled with my horse for six years, and now he is a complete dream to ride - just a perfect schoolmaster. Previously I had had lessons from conventional instructors being taught to push, push, push the horse into the bridle. All it did was result in endless fights with the horse and tears on my part. I don't think there is really that much difference, but the classical instructor taught me not to worry where the horses head was, just to establish a good pace (be it walk,trot,or canter) and when the horse is balanced it will learn to carry itself because the rider is more balanced. It certainly worked with my TB and involved no fights or tantrums and generally just involved me getting more balanced to help the horse...
Peanot
Well-Known Member
This is exactly me too. I have always thought that my horses could go better but no matter how many lessons I had, I always felt like I was stuck in a rut. Then I started having a RWYM instructor and she has changed my riding. My horse feels forward and floaty, in control, light shoulders, light in the reins, rounds her back and she is so much more easy to ride. And she is in self carriage. It works for me and my horses, tho one horse took a little more persuasion with the self carriage as she is naturally a `lets look off into the distance` horse.
Last year, I had issues with my show jumping and the RWYM position wasnt helping as when my mare stopped at a fence, I`d just be catapulted out of the front door. So I decided to go back to my old style. Take into account that my dressage percentage had risen since having RWYM lessons... The next dressage comp came and went and I then decided that the RWYM was the only way to go as instead of being in the top 3, we were in the bottom 3!!!
She had gone more tense and the remarks were `not coming thro` etc etc. So now I find that I try and ride more RWYM and I am back having lessons with RWYM coach.
Also I realised that the jumping problems on other horse were due to ill fitting saddle, but thats another maddening story.
I think it depends on how tight you have your thighs on as it isnt supposed to be tight squeezing your horse, its supposed to be what someone else said earlier, but I can`t remember the proper word where the outside muscle pushes in and the inside muscle pushes out so the muscle is firm but not actually pushing into the horse.
Since having RWYM lessons, my riding is more precise. My friend who originally set up these lessons was very nervous when she decided to go the RWYM way and now she is happily trotting and cantering round and entering dressage competitions (and winning, may I add) whereas before the lessons, she wouldn`t even canter her horse.
catkin
Well-Known Member
I wonder if some of the confusion is because every horse/rider combination is coming at it with their own strengths and weaknesses; whether we are tight in the thighs, one sided, tendency towards a fork seat etc, etc. The leg position is only one part of it!
An instructor is then having to assess how to get improvement - it's a LOT easier if they have been teaching you for a while - a first lesson is daunting for all I would guess.
I've been lucky enough to have been taught by good instructors who have come from a number of schools, and although the way we have got there may have been different, the same basic principles were being sought (and of course, they all had/have to contend with my individual 'conformational' weaknesses!!)
An instructor is then having to assess how to get improvement - it's a LOT easier if they have been teaching you for a while - a first lesson is daunting for all I would guess.
I've been lucky enough to have been taught by good instructors who have come from a number of schools, and although the way we have got there may have been different, the same basic principles were being sought (and of course, they all had/have to contend with my individual 'conformational' weaknesses!!)
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
I would think that a RWYM coach will have a lot of experience too, so is not just teaching by "rote."
I was certainly taught to grip with the knees, old school, and it tends to be a default position if the horse does something unexpected.
I think you have to stick with one style of riding, otherwise you will just get confused, and more important, so will you horse. If you are getting good results and you are both happy, stick with it.
I was certainly taught to grip with the knees, old school, and it tends to be a default position if the horse does something unexpected.
I think you have to stick with one style of riding, otherwise you will just get confused, and more important, so will you horse. If you are getting good results and you are both happy, stick with it.
Peanot
Well-Known Member
Sorry a long one coming.
I posted earlier before I`d read all replies but found the article interesting so I carried on reading. I think some people have got confused but after reading all replies I just want to let folk know that when my first lesson by RWYM coach involved her telling me to grab my thigh from behind and pull the fatty bit towards the back so this makes my knee turn ever so slightly inwards and my lower legs come off. I had to sit forward in the saddle onto my `bits` and lower leg further back. Then I was told to do different things with my `knicker tendons` (rwym language) and other parts, bearing down, etc. This new position made me feel wierd and as if I had got my legs really back, but video showed a lovely seat and position.
My SJ trainer thought that this was wierd as my lower legs were `floppy`and moving about. I explained that I was in a transitional stage.
After a couple more RWYM lessons I had graduated to bringing my lower leg into the equasion and had to `bolt` the lower leg into the sides. This doesnt mean clamp my legs but to keep them solid and still and they were there when I needed them.
I realised that what my trainer was doing was muscle memory, one part at a time. This is because if she had done certain changes in the first 2 lessons, my legs/knees and seat would`ve done something wrong. It has to be done in stages. Now I have had about 8 lessons and I must say that everything is making sense. In our last lesson we worked on lateral, just leg yield from the centre line and tho it felt different, both forelegs and hindlegs were crossing over properly. I hadn`t been doing it quite right before.
Even our half halts are much more effective from just a hesitation in my body at just the right moment.
I find it difficult trying to remember everything and have to have a checklist in my mind. But I have got to say that just one or 2 lessons with RWYM don`t seem to make a lot of sense sometimes, tho horse went brilliant in the first lesson and now we have had a few lessons, we still have lightbulb moments when horse is falling in and a BHS instructor says, more inside leg, then RWYM coach says `no `no` no` do this instead and instantly horse isnt falling in. Brilliant. When my mare hears something or she hollows or loses outline, I go thro check list and before I have done 1 or 2 things, she`s back rouding and in outline.
Until you have actually had a lesson with RWYM coach and felt the difference, it all sounds a little wierd TBH. But it works.
I do realise its not everyones cup of tea and some riders are very good natural riders and atuomatically ride this way without realising they are doing so, but it suits all levels of riders and I think it is really good for nervous riders (like aforementioned friend) or riders who feel they are hitting a brick wall, like I did.
But this is just MHO.
I posted earlier before I`d read all replies but found the article interesting so I carried on reading. I think some people have got confused but after reading all replies I just want to let folk know that when my first lesson by RWYM coach involved her telling me to grab my thigh from behind and pull the fatty bit towards the back so this makes my knee turn ever so slightly inwards and my lower legs come off. I had to sit forward in the saddle onto my `bits` and lower leg further back. Then I was told to do different things with my `knicker tendons` (rwym language) and other parts, bearing down, etc. This new position made me feel wierd and as if I had got my legs really back, but video showed a lovely seat and position.
My SJ trainer thought that this was wierd as my lower legs were `floppy`and moving about. I explained that I was in a transitional stage.
After a couple more RWYM lessons I had graduated to bringing my lower leg into the equasion and had to `bolt` the lower leg into the sides. This doesnt mean clamp my legs but to keep them solid and still and they were there when I needed them.
I realised that what my trainer was doing was muscle memory, one part at a time. This is because if she had done certain changes in the first 2 lessons, my legs/knees and seat would`ve done something wrong. It has to be done in stages. Now I have had about 8 lessons and I must say that everything is making sense. In our last lesson we worked on lateral, just leg yield from the centre line and tho it felt different, both forelegs and hindlegs were crossing over properly. I hadn`t been doing it quite right before.
Even our half halts are much more effective from just a hesitation in my body at just the right moment.I find it difficult trying to remember everything and have to have a checklist in my mind. But I have got to say that just one or 2 lessons with RWYM don`t seem to make a lot of sense sometimes, tho horse went brilliant in the first lesson and now we have had a few lessons, we still have lightbulb moments when horse is falling in and a BHS instructor says, more inside leg, then RWYM coach says `no `no` no` do this instead and instantly horse isnt falling in. Brilliant. When my mare hears something or she hollows or loses outline, I go thro check list and before I have done 1 or 2 things, she`s back rouding and in outline.
Until you have actually had a lesson with RWYM coach and felt the difference, it all sounds a little wierd TBH. But it works.
I do realise its not everyones cup of tea and some riders are very good natural riders and atuomatically ride this way without realising they are doing so, but it suits all levels of riders and I think it is really good for nervous riders (like aforementioned friend) or riders who feel they are hitting a brick wall, like I did.
But this is just MHO.
little_critter
Well-Known Member
If does make sense for the RWYM instructors to fix one thing at a time. I've had istructors before who try to fix everything at once and you end up a confused mess.
I've had 1 RWYM lesson and it did feel really weird. She was asking me to lean forwards more and more (something you don't usually get asked to do - I think she was trying to stop me hollowing). I ended up leaning so far forwards I couldn't see where I was going. I said this at the time and she said that we'd sort that out next.
I haven't gone back - not because of the instruction but because they're 2 hours away.
I think the RWYM instyructors are very good at helping you to visualise what you should be doing. Some of their phases sound very odd but once explained they are a good way of translating what a 'natural' rider does to someone who's trying to learn.
I've had 1 RWYM lesson and it did feel really weird. She was asking me to lean forwards more and more (something you don't usually get asked to do - I think she was trying to stop me hollowing). I ended up leaning so far forwards I couldn't see where I was going. I said this at the time and she said that we'd sort that out next.
I haven't gone back - not because of the instruction but because they're 2 hours away.
I think the RWYM instyructors are very good at helping you to visualise what you should be doing. Some of their phases sound very odd but once explained they are a good way of translating what a 'natural' rider does to someone who's trying to learn.