Remedial Shoeing in Thoroughbreds - How practical and how successful?

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Hello, I am looking for your real experiences of managing horses through remedial shoeing please..
I have a 6 year old TB gelding, ex National Hunt, a big, 17.1hh strapping boy who loves life. We brought the horses home from livery for lock down, and so I had to find a new farrier. We found a superb remedial farrier, however his overall view and diagnosis of my big lads feet was grim, infact I was pretty horrified. Very low heels front and back - negative plantar angles.. long term I could be looking at Navicular and hind end lameness if his feet are not sorted out. My previous farriers are very reputable, and my lad has always retained his shoes through shoeing cycles, however this experience has really opened my eyes..

Luckily, I have taken retraining very slowly with him, no competing or big asks so minimum pressure on him. The farrier has a course of remedial action in mind, subject to lateral x-rays of the horse's hind feet (vet is coming to do this tomorrow).
My concern is this....he's already started with pads on his fronts, and he loses these shoes and pads every week in the field..He's an exuberant, energetic, big lad, and I'm worried it is going to be extremely hard for him to successfully complete remedial treatment, as the only way he will keep these shoes on is if he's box rested - not an appealing idea, he was stabled for 6 weeks through the winter storms and spent alot of the time outside of his box, on his hind legs and doing all manner of acrobatics - he was pretty unhappy and very un-rideable.

If you have had a similar experience, I would love to hear about it, and get a view on how you managed them through it.

An 'old school' horse friend has suggested taking his shoes off, turning him out for a year and having his feet trimmed properly and regularly, letting natural growth cycles do their work...sounds extreme, but then so is spending hundreds of pounds every 5 weeks for shoeing a horse who cannot keep the remedial shoes on for longer than 5 days..
Over 22 years I have had 7 Thoroughbreds, all lovely individuals, but all of them had terrible feet despite regular shoeing and good supportive nutrition- this lad trumps the lot. I have 2 ISH yearlings at home, and to be honest I am glad they are part bred for the better feet alone.
Thank you :)
 

ycbm

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Do you mean bar shoes?

They are an absolute no for me except for stabilising a fracture repair.

Wedges?

Never unless the horse is lame without them and a barefoot rehab has already been attempted.


Is he on a supplement with high copper/zinc and no iron/magnesium?

.
 

be positive

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I had a tb come in with dreadful feet, while in training he had been on supplements to help, had his coffin joints injected, he was recovering from a tendon injury so shoes were off and he was on box rest, I got him trimmed, changed his diet, treated the thrush and within no time they improved, he then went out for several months and they continued to improve but the real change was once he came back into work, barefoot despite the vets reservations, after 4 months steady regular roadwork he was fit, sound and his feet looked amazing, the heels and frogs were strong, the horn quality was really good, he went back into shoes when he returned to race for a season but once retired to do RC activities he went barefoot again.

I would definitely go this route rather than remedial shoeing especially if there are problems keeping the shoes on, each time one is pulled off the foot is being weakened even more.
 
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Do you mean bar shoes?

They are an absolute no for me except for stabilising a fracture repair.

Wedges?

Never unless the horse is lame without them and a barefoot rehab has already been attempted.


Is he on a supplement with high copper/zinc and no iron/magnesium?

.
Thank you - as soon as the x-rays are done and the farrier has confirmed his planned course of action I will post a full reply on what has been recommended; your input is hugely valued as I do not want to be lead down an impractical route.

I would massively appreciate suggestions on supplements; the options out there are endless and I had hoped he would get what he needs through his balancer, etc. Any recommendations are welcomed. Thank you very much.
 
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I had a tb come in with dreadful feet, while in training he had been on supplements to help, had his coffin joints injected, he was recovering from a tendon injury so shoes were off and he was on box rest, I got him trimmed, changed his diet, treated the thrush and within no time they improved, he then went out for several months and they continued to improve but the real change was once he came back into work, barefoot despite the vets reservations, after 4 months steady regular roadwork he was fit, sound and his feet looked amazing, the heels and frogs were strong, the horn quality was really good, he went back into shoes when he returned to race for a season but once retired to do RC activities he went barefoot again.

I would definitely go this route rather than remedial shoeing especially if there are problems keeping the shoes on, each time one is pulled off the foot is being weakened even more.
This is really interesting, can I ask what changes you made to his diet and if you used a supplement? Thank you.
 
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be positive

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This is really interesting, can I ask what changes you made to his diet and if you used a supplement? Thank you.

He had been on a mix, not sure which supplement, I put him on a token feed of grassnuts and linseed, he was box resting and getting adlib haylage which kept his condition, supplemented with magnesium and salt, I had planned on putting him onto something extra but I don't think I did and when he came back to work in the spring he was so fat I didn't want to feed anything, he lived out that summer and only got hard feed once he returned to training.
Not very helpful really but at that yard most were barefoot and I had little trouble with anything, it may be that the grazing was balanced enough, old pasture, not fertilised and a big enough field for a lot of movement.

The only one we had in that did grow poorer feet went onto Equimins Hoofmender and that did make a difference.
 
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He had been on a mix, not sure which supplement, I put him on a token feed of grassnuts and linseed, he was box resting and getting adlib haylage which kept his condition, supplemented with magnesium and salt, I had planned on putting him onto something extra but I don't think I did and when he came back to work in the spring he was so fat I didn't want to feed anything, he lived out that summer and only got hard feed once he returned to training.
Not very helpful really but at that yard most were barefoot and I had little trouble with anything, it may be that the grazing was balanced enough, old pasture, not fertilised and a big enough field for a lot of movement.

The only one we had in that did grow poorer feet went onto Equimins Hoofmender and that did make a difference.
Thank you, sounds like good pure feeding to me, really there is no substitute for good pasture.
 
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paddy555

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This has happened so many times before, poor lad if he is only 6.

If he was mine I would do a barefoot rehab and then, if at all possible keep him barefoot.
You need to grow some feet and feet that are in the right place. ie with good quality heels to take his weight on landing and so that he lands correctly, and heels that are not running forward.
Also to deal with the thrush which can make landing in the heel painful.

To do that you need diet. Minerals and protein. Mine are all barefoot and diet (with small adjustments for each) is salt, equimins advanced complete supplement, magox, vit E oil, copra, either grass nuts or alfalfa pellets (not alfalfa if your horse doesn't get on with it) and micro linseed.
That diet seems to grow good quality feet.
They also have soaked hay and unfertilised old meadow grass.

I have little doubt that your farrier and your vet will not approve of the barefoot rehab route. Some people really struggle with this. Some are able to stand up to the farrier. Some farriers and a few vets are enlightened and these good guys are supportive. Down here in Devon we have an excellent barefoot only qualified farrier. Mark Johnson is another further up country. There are others. If your farrier is not supportive, doesn't have sound barefoot working horses on his books and you want to consider this route I would try and find a barefoot farrier to work with your vet or at least to give you some advice.

Your old school horse friend doesn't sound in the slightest "extreme" just enlightened and normal. :D

From what you have written your horse is unlikely to be sound if you take the shoes off. He will be sore and hobble. I would take them off and then turn him out for a month and make life as easy as possible for him. Let him adjust. I have carpeted between the stables and the gravel yard in the past for difficult de shod horses to get over comfortably. Walked on soft ground to the field etc. Otherwise if he is very sore you can boot to do this. Taking this sort of horse BF takes a bit of planning to get everything in place to make it easy for them.

If he is at home it will be easier as you can do what you want. It is more difficult for people on livery yards.

Turning out to 24/7 grass with the rain and heat making the grass grow may need to be restricted but then it needs restricting anyway for many.

I wouldn't turn him out for a year but after around a month or so when he becomes sound (not sore) in the field I would start working him. Presuming you can control him that would be led in hand to start with. It would be fully booted always with 4 boots. There is lots to write about boots, they are an essay in themselves, but you could learn about them later. Boots have the advantage of protecting the feet fully out riding over stones/ gravel etc but then the horse is barefoot for the other 23 hours of the day in his field.

Gradually as he was fine led out in boots I would ride in them. Gradually as he improved t he carpet would come up and he would lead out barefoot happily. If he was happy barefoot I would start walking him on smooth tarmac to start conditioning his feet and building them up. Just like the rest of the horse feet need conditioning. You are starting from totally unfit feet and working them gradually for longer and over more difficult surfaces. (smooth tarmac is easy, stoney tracks difficult)

This is of course all subject to what the x rays show.

After a year you would have a different set of feet and would have a better idea as to how much work he could do without boots and where you wanted to go
That would be my barefoot rehab. Some horses progress more slowly through it some fly through it.

My quickest who was only 6 and had good feet had his shoes off one day and did his normal 20 mile ride the next and then carried on as usual. My worst took 3 months walking over carpet to the field he was 13 and his feet so bad (contracted)
He gaited barefoot (he was a gaited horse) over gravel on the roads a year after his shoes came off. By then all contraction (heels very pulled in together and little frog) had gone and his feet had completely changed shape and he had decent frogs.


The advice I would give anyone doing this is to stop, shoe for another 4 weeks (probably not possible for you) learn everything, get the diet and especially the supplement in place, get the yard ready and then go for it. Above all don't let anyone overtrim your feet. :D
 
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This has happened so many times before, poor lad if he is only 6.

If he was mine I would do a barefoot rehab and then, if at all possible keep him barefoot.
You need to grow some feet and feet that are in the right place. ie with good quality heels to take his weight on landing and so that he lands correctly, and heels that are not running forward.
Also to deal with the thrush which can make landing in the heel painful.

To do that you need diet. Minerals and protein. Mine are all barefoot and diet (with small adjustments for each) is salt, equimins advanced complete supplement, magox, vit E oil, copra, either grass nuts or alfalfa pellets (not alfalfa if your horse doesn't get on with it) and micro linseed.
That diet seems to grow good quality feet.
They also have soaked hay and unfertilised old meadow grass.

I have little doubt that your farrier and your vet will not approve of the barefoot rehab route. Some people really struggle with this. Some are able to stand up to the farrier. Some farriers and a few vets are enlightened and these good guys are supportive. Down here in Devon we have an excellent barefoot only qualified farrier. Mark Johnson is another further up country. There are others. If your farrier is not supportive, doesn't have sound barefoot working horses on his books and you want to consider this route I would try and find a barefoot farrier to work with your vet or at least to give you some advice.

Your old school horse friend doesn't sound in the slightest "extreme" just enlightened and normal. :D

From what you have written your horse is unlikely to be sound if you take the shoes off. He will be sore and hobble. I would take them off and then turn him out for a month and make life as easy as possible for him. Let him adjust. I have carpeted between the stables and the gravel yard in the past for difficult de shod horses to get over comfortably. Walked on soft ground to the field etc. Otherwise if he is very sore you can boot to do this. Taking this sort of horse BF takes a bit of planning to get everything in place to make it easy for them.

If he is at home it will be easier as you can do what you want. It is more difficult for people on livery yards.

Turning out to 24/7 grass with the rain and heat making the grass grow may need to be restricted but then it needs restricting anyway for many.

I wouldn't turn him out for a year but after around a month or so when he becomes sound (not sore) in the field I would start working him. Presuming you can control him that would be led in hand to start with. It would be fully booted always with 4 boots. There is lots to write about boots, they are an essay in themselves, but you could learn about them later. Boots have the advantage of protecting the feet fully out riding over stones/ gravel etc but then the horse is barefoot for the other 23 hours of the day in his field.

Gradually as he was fine led out in boots I would ride in them. Gradually as he improved t he carpet would come up and he would lead out barefoot happily. If he was happy barefoot I would start walking him on smooth tarmac to start conditioning his feet and building them up. Just like the rest of the horse feet need conditioning. You are starting from totally unfit feet and working them gradually for longer and over more difficult surfaces. (smooth tarmac is easy, stoney tracks difficult)

This is of course all subject to what the x rays show.

After a year you would have a different set of feet and would have a better idea as to how much work he could do without boots and where you wanted to go
That would be my barefoot rehab. Some horses progress more slowly through it some fly through it.

My quickest who was only 6 and had good feet had his shoes off one day and did his normal 20 mile ride the next and then carried on as usual. My worst took 3 months walking over carpet to the field he was 13 and his feet so bad (contracted)
He gaited barefoot (he was a gaited horse) over gravel on the roads a year after his shoes came off. By then all contraction (heels very pulled in together and little frog) had gone and his feet had completely changed shape and he had decent frogs.


The advice I would give anyone doing this is to stop, shoe for another 4 weeks (probably not possible for you) learn everything, get the diet and especially the supplement in place, get the yard ready and then go for it. Above all don't let anyone overtrim your feet. :D
Thank you so much for this very insightful and useful response. You are absolutely right - the big lad is either a little bit 'footy' or hopping lame when he loses a shoe. The Barefoot route is one which I will discuss with the Vet and the farrier tomorrow - they are coincidentally going to land at the yard on the same day, as the big lad has yet again lost another shoe and pad last night, so it needs replacing. My farrier is very open minded and does offer barefoot services, so it's not out of the question, however I am sure he will have firm ideas about what would work better for this horse.

This is my feeling - whilst the barefoot route will take a good deal of time and a bit of adapting our surroundings and ways of working, I envisage that doing the 'all the bells and whistles' through remedial shoeing will take just as long - if not longer, because it too will take alot of management for this particular horse. So whichever direction of travel I take, I need to write off any plans for furthering his training and competing for this year until we get his feet sorted out - they are after all fundamental 'No foot - no horse'...

Its interesting you mentioning the Micro Linseed, I feed that through the winter and interestingly enough, this lad never threw a shoe once between late September and March. I was feeding for overall condition, did't realise it had such benefits for feet.

Thank you again. :)
 

paddy555

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Thank you so much for this very insightful and useful response. You are absolutely right - the big lad is either a little bit 'footy' or hopping lame when he loses a shoe. The Barefoot route is one which I will discuss with the Vet and the farrier tomorrow - they are coincidentally going to land at the yard on the same day, as the big lad has yet again lost another shoe and pad last night, so it needs replacing. My farrier is very open minded and does offer barefoot services, so it's not out of the question, however I am sure he will have firm ideas about what would work better for this horse.

This is my feeling - whilst the barefoot route will take a good deal of time and a bit of adapting our surroundings and ways of working, I envisage that doing the 'all the bells and whistles' through remedial shoeing will take just as long - if not longer, because it too will take alot of management for this particular horse. So whichever direction of travel I take, I need to write off any plans for furthering his training and competing for this year until we get his feet sorted out - they are after all fundamental 'No foot - no horse'...

Its interesting you mentioning the Micro Linseed, I feed that through the winter and interestingly enough, this lad never threw a shoe once between late September and March. I was feeding for overall condition, did't realise it had such benefits for feet.

Thank you again. :)

you are welcome. Many have been in your position. Many are covered by insurance. They go down the remedial shoeing route and the insurance pays out (Not suggesting you have ins. or would do) Finally they come to the end of the insurance money and are left with the only other choice available as they have to fund it themselves. Barefoot rehab. Boots are not cheap but the rest of barefoot rehab is. (compared to remedial shoeing) So they go for barefoot rehab as there is nothing left for them. Then they make progress.
Go through the Rockley blog MC posted above. Many start off in your position. You can see where and how they end up. It may give you some ideas. You don't have to send your horse away, many have adapted and done this at home. Good luck with your lad.
 

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My little lad is not a TB but if you have seen my most recent posts you will see he has a lot of issues. Although his feet look quite pretty and tidy, he actually has very little heel height front or back. He has been barefoot his whole life (15 years) and still has little heel and a very weak digital cushion for whatever reason, despite being turned out 24/7 on a variety of surfaces. Whatever has started the chain of events (possibly joint hypermobility), he has been landing toe first and camping under and his tendons have started to contract as this has become his default position. In the last three weeks I have had him in boots and pads 23 hours a day. 2 weeks ago on his last trim I made sure they left more heel, didn't take it down at all. This week when I have trotted him up he is now landing heel first again, and has regained the missing bit of the stride as his tendons are starting to de-contract (probably not a real word) so he can extend through the knee again. This is a big change in just three weeks of the horse being made comfortable enough to use his heel to land on, which affects all of the structures above. For him, having the boots and pads on just for an hour or two a day wasn't enough. I needed repetition, repetition, repetition. So the more strides he took where the heel was comfortable, the more impact it would have on his body, whereas for him leaving him bare most of the time would just be his status quo for toe first landing.

I am going to keep going with this approach, and am now also adding boots and pads to his hind feet, as he has very very little heel height behind and a very weak digital cushion. Having tested the fronts I am sure the hinds can also be improved. We feel that these weak hoof structures and adapted compensatory ways of moving are what is making him so crippled, rather than him having an 'injury' per se. It's more like each stride taken in the wrong foot balance is causing more strain on the structures above until he is hurting all over. I'm hoping this approach in conjunction with input from my vet, osteo and massage therapist to help to release the deep tissue restrictions, will be what saves him.
 
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My little lad is not a TB but if you have seen my most recent posts you will see he has a lot of issues. Although his feet look quite pretty and tidy, he actually has very little heel height front or back. He has been barefoot his whole life (15 years) and still has little heel and a very weak digital cushion for whatever reason, despite being turned out 24/7 on a variety of surfaces. Whatever has started the chain of events (possibly joint hypermobility), he has been landing toe first and camping under and his tendons have started to contract as this has become his default position. In the last three weeks I have had him in boots and pads 23 hours a day. 2 weeks ago on his last trim I made sure they left more heel, didn't take it down at all. This week when I have trotted him up he is now landing heel first again, and has regained the missing bit of the stride as his tendons are starting to de-contract (probably not a real word) so he can extend through the knee again. This is a big change in just three weeks of the horse being made comfortable enough to use his heel to land on, which affects all of the structures above. For him, having the boots and pads on just for an hour or two a day wasn't enough. I needed repetition, repetition, repetition. So the more strides he took where the heel was comfortable, the more impact it would have on his body, whereas for him leaving him bare most of the time would just be his status quo for toe first landing.

I am going to keep going with this approach, and am now also adding boots and pads to his hind feet, as he has very very little heel height behind and a very weak digital cushion. Having tested the fronts I am sure the hinds can also be improved. We feel that these weak hoof structures and adapted compensatory ways of moving are what is making him so crippled, rather than him having an 'injury' per se. It's more like each stride taken in the wrong foot balance is causing more strain on the structures above until he is hurting all over. I'm hoping this approach in conjunction with input from my vet, osteo and massage therapist to help to release the deep tissue restrictions, will be what saves him.
Thank you for your reply, most kind if you to take the time. My equine physio really rates boots as part of the remedial and barefoot approach. Its really encouraging for me to hear of your success using a different approach, as it certainly demonstrates that there is more than one way to tackle this, all require time and patience. I wish you all the best with your boys recovery, I hope the improvement continues, it certainly sounds as if you've cracked it and found something that works well for him. ?
 

peanut

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As previously mentioned, Pro Hoof by Progressive Earth is brilliant.

My ISH with dreadful TB feet (flat, no heels, laminitis, corns) now has great hoof quality which has enabled my farrier to keep her sound and comfortable.
 
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As previously mentioned, Pro Hoof by Progressive Earth is brilliant.

My ISH with dreadful TB feet (flat, no heels, laminitis, corns) now has great hoof quality which has enabled my farrier to keep her sound and comfortable.
Thank you! Another thumbs up for Pro Hoof, I think this may be worth a shot, and see if there's any improvement after 6 months or so. Interesting that your ISH has taken the TB hoof profile, my two ISH babies are very different in stature and breeding; one appears to have more 'blood' so it will be interesting to see how their hooves differ in shape and quality; they are getting regular trims, I'm trying to get it right early with them to avoid my current situation in the future, but you just don't know at this stage how they will turn out. Thanks again :)
 

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My last 3 horses have done a few months of the year barefoot, I like it simply for a re-set of the strength and angles, plus any weakness int he white line can be fettled.

Mine all cope admirably without shoes as they had good feet to start with, but with one such as yours, I would make sure you have both boots and a soft turnout area (arena?) that you can use before removing, especially in case the ground bakes hard. Barefoot is no use if they are not comfortable. Nor is it much use if they end up standing still.

I feed dry hay, minimal grass (as in the paddock is bare) and a handful of chop so Pro Hoof and salt can be fed.
 

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Another vote for taking shoes off, and chucking him out for 1-3 mos. I did this with VERY similar pathology- crushed heels, run forward and severely negative palmar angles. It was a last resort, and I am so glad I did it, only sorry I didn't do it earlier with my horse. For two years I was fighting with lameness, and adding mechanics, padding, packing, rockers to the shoeing regime. I had nothing left to lose, and I gained it all back. I took the shoes off 5 years ago, and it's been 4 years since I've had any foot related lameness. No more cellulitis, stocking up, sore heels. 2 abcesses in 5 years.... not many can say this.

And don't let anyone trim him immediately. Give him a few weeks to adjust before you start taking the wall away. If a trimmer claims they can carve his feet right in one or two trims... walk away. There is 110% a time element to this, he needs to regrow and stabilize the caudal foot. Mine continued to change for at least a year and a half, and she has positive palmar angles for the first time since I've owned the horse.
 

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Thank you, sounds like good pure feeding to me, really there is no substitute for good pasture.

Although pasture is often the enemy of barefoot horses, the right pasture is brilliant but too much is high in sugars and our horses are potentially becoming less and less tolerant of it. No shoes means the early signs of low grade laminitis show themselves, a good thing as you pick it up much earlier than in a shod horse, but witness how many barefoot horse owners manage their pasture very very carefully.

The Barefoot route is one which I will discuss with the Vet and the farrier tomorrow - they are coincidentally going to land at the yard on the same day, as the big lad has yet again lost another shoe and pad last night, so it needs replacing. My farrier is very open minded and does offer barefoot services, so it's not out of the question, however I am sure he will have firm ideas about what would work better for this horse.

As mentioned right at the offset you are highly likely to find them against it. When your normal tool is a hammer, even if you sometimes dabble with a saw, most things will look like a nail. VERY few farriers immerse themselves in barefoot to be able to advise why it's not working, in terms of diet, grazing, conditioning, work levels etc, even if they're basically good trimmers. Instead they tell you you have it your best shot but your horse needs shoes as they clearly can't cope without.

Vets vary, some are somewhat pro, some are wary, but the industry isn't geared up for it, there is no recognised path of treatment, this procedure, followed by that drug, and you could argue ultimately there's no money in it. I am NOT accusing vets of ignoring anything that doesn't earn for them, I am accusing the industry of having grown certain norms and paradigms that mean viewpoints are often a little narrow.
 

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I’ve achieved great results with Science Suppliments 4Feet. He was a large 3/4 bred with rubbish TB feet under ID size and weight. He was on a well considered and balanced ration but his feet only improved with a supplement.
 
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I used to use the 4feet hoof dressing through a very wet winter, and the supplement was recommended to me also; this is in my top 4 supplements to consider. Thank you so much for the recommendation.
 
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Thank you very much for all of your excellent replies; the x-rays have definitely shown clearly his issue in the hind feet, so I am speaking with my vet again today, and the farrier is returning on Tuesday to 'start the work' - however I am fully prepared to challenge, and discuss all options, and I am getting a 2nd opinion.
Its amazing how this type of issue affects us; though this is hopefully not going to be a 'career ending' issue, its serious enough, and I've felt incredibly disheartened and worried these past few weeks. I have already lost so much time working with this lovely boy as we hit a lot of challenges last year too, bad livery yards, huge delays with saddle fitting, then COVID. But that's horses, and best laid plans....good job we love them!
 
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Thank you very much for all of your excellent replies; the x-rays have definitely shown clearly his issue in the hind feet, so I am speaking with my vet again today, and the farrier is returning on Tuesday to 'start the work' - however I am fully prepared to challenge, and discuss all options, and I am getting a 2nd opinion.
Its amazing how this type of issue affects us; though this is hopefully not going to be a 'career ending' issue, its serious enough, and I've felt incredibly disheartened and worried these past few weeks. I have already lost so much time working with this lovely boy as we hit a lot of challenges last year too, bad livery yards, huge delays with saddle fitting, then COVID. But that's horses, and best laid plans....good job we love them!
As an additional note - I have ordered the Progressive Earth Pro Hoof Platinum Supplement and added Micronised linseed back into his diet; lets see if this helps over the next year or so. Thanks.
 
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