Remedial shoeing - on or off

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catherine22

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My horse has numerous issues (including hock spavins and arthritis in coffin joints) and at the moment has graduated bar shoes in front and heartbars and wedges behind. he is sound at the moment (he has had these shoes on since october). He is having his hind feet done today so do I ask the farrier to put normal shoes back on behind and see how he copes and if he does then normal shoes back in front when they're done in a couple of weeks? (farrier is more than happy to get him out of these shoes) or as he is sound leave him as he is and wait until september

Insurance is on going until september so if he needs them back on then he can have them back on, but as soon as the insurance runs out then thats it, as I don't have £200 per set every 5 weeks, and if he is lame when it runs out then it's more than likely he will have them all taken off. And if he misbehaves being done today like he did last time, then the hinds will be coming off today

So what would you do, barefoot is definately a route I am interested in and i'm currently reading feet first and have posted about it before, and subsequently spoken to Nic at Rockley, but while I have the insurance to use I'd rather make the most of it
 
I would be suprised the the farrier would feel happy to go from both wedges and heart bars to plain shoes? Discuss with them your situation and see if they can manage a graded reduction, while in discussion with your vet and referencing to recent x-rays, rather than straight into plain shoes.

Re making the most of your insurance, if you feel something other than what you are doing would be helpful then why stick with this just because the insurance covers the cost? At best you are delaying trying different treatment. FWIW quite a number of Nic's rehabs have been at least partly funded by their insurance. I would pursue that if it were me tbh.
 
I am interested to see what people reply on this thread. My gelding had remedial shoeing on hind feet only - just trailers behind to correct his slightly unusual action on his hind legs (he is 'tight behind') after probable stifle issues before I bought him, along with collapsed heels. He walks as if he has 'pooed his pants'!!!! But he couldn't keep them on - farrier thought he was twisting as he walked.
So we decided to try barefoot behind. A year on and his hooves have grown into an uneven shape, but his action is much improved and he is still completely sound. There was a short period of footiness when the shoes first came off, and I have to watch his diet carefully. He self-trims when we hack out, farrier checks them every 6 weeks when he shoes fronts, and I have hoof boots for longer hacks so he isn't uncomfortable.
Having looked at some of the info on barefoot it would SEEM that hooves will grow into the shape the limbs require them to be...

However I do worry about wear and tear on his joints/limbs - is it worth correcting them with shoeing, or let them take their natural shape whatever that may be?
 
catherine22 said:
So what would you do, barefoot is definately a route I am interested in and i'm currently reading feet first and have posted about it before, and subsequently spoken to Nic at Rockley, but while I have the insurance to use I'd rather make the most of it
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Eh? I don't understand what insurance money has to do with trying to get your horse as sound and happy as possible?

In the long run - isn't a sound BF horse (which is what Nic produces every time) going to be much cheaper than the 'remedial' shoeing?
 
Oberon - I completely agree and although I think i could guarentee his feet would not grow in a perfect shape, they will grow how he needs them to keep him sound, after all he knows best.
I think it's just the initial going against the vets advice. Will speak to the farrier this afternoon and see what his long term opinion is
 
I also don't see what the insurance has to do with it. The only question for me would be whether the barefoot route had the potential to get your horse right. If it does then why wait 9 months?
It seems pointless to shoe him because the insurance will pay and when they won't only then will you finally take his shoes off.


I would get all the xrays and anything else you can out of the insurance and then try and get them to fund part of Rockley.
Lets face it by October you will probably have the shoes off as that will most likely be your long term solution.
 
noblesteed said:
However I do worry about wear and tear on his joints/limbs - is it worth correcting them with shoeing, or let them take their natural shape whatever that may be?
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Attempting to 'correct' his feet with shoeing is surely what will cause the greatest wear and tear on his joints, tendons and ligaments? If he's moving better now I'm not sure I understand the dilemma :confused:.
 
noblesteed said:
You cannot correct a limb or joint by nailing something solid and unyielding on a dynamic and flexible hoof.

By putting the shoes on and 'taking out' the hoof's natural force disipation aparatus (heel, digital cushion, blood exchange and wall flexibility) you will be adding wear and tear on the joints.

The hooves grow that way in response to the instability and to try and stabilise it. To lock the hooves into a fixed shape via a shoe will transfer that instability upwards and cause something to 'blow' eventually.

It happens time and time again - the farrier will recommend shoes because the hooves look wonky and ugly. The shoes make the hooves look lovely and a few months later said horse goes lame.

If your hoof care provider is capable of providing a sympathetic trim in order to understand the difference between stabilisation and deformity - then leave the shoes off (IMO).

You can see my old boy's hooves - he was overdue a trim here. He does almost no work and his action isn't straight - he lands on the outside wall and rolls inwards. Can you see the uneven wear? If he was locked into shoes - where would that force go? Into his fetlock joint I'd guess.
Off fore
obiofffore.jpg


Near fore
obinearfore.jpg
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catherine22 said:
I think it's just the initial going against the vets advice.
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another way of looking at it may be that the vet simply does not have the knowledge and information to advise you differently. Many simply don't.
If I suggested this to my own vet I know they would welcome it with open arms but my vet has had experience of good barefeet. Many vets (and farriers) don't.
 
paddy555 said:
I would get all the xrays and anything else you can out of the insurance and then try and get them to fund part of Rockley.
Lets face it by October you will probably have the shoes off as that will most likely be your long term solution.
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thats what I meant by making the most of the insurance, I don't want to get to october then be told he needs x, y and z. Will definately speak to the farrier later and see what he says because I'd almost put money on the fact remedial shoes or normal shoes he'll probably be lame again by the end of the year, then speak to the vet
 
catherine22 said:
Oberon - I completely agree and although I think i could guarentee his feet would not grow in a perfect shape, they will grow how he needs them to keep him sound, after all he knows best.
I think it's just the initial going against the vets advice. Will speak to the farrier this afternoon and see what his long term opinion is
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I really feel for you.

It really pisses me off that most vets and farriers will refuse to support BF - which is often MUCH more successful than 'remedial farriery' of which the proven success is tenuous at best.

So when the owner has exhausted their bank account and insurance and looks for an alternative solution of BF.....the poor owner suddenly finds them self on their own.

And if they do take that brave step and get the horse sound.....are the vet and farrier interested in the success??? Are they buggery :(

I just can't understand the whole thing???
 
Oberon said:
It happens time and time again - the farrier will recommend shoes because the hooves look wonky and ugly. The shoes make the hooves look lovely and a few months later said horse goes lame.
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So so true!! OH mare had 'pretty' hooves in shoes and suffered intermittent lameless. She now grows her own (slightly wonky) feet and is on the form of her life!!!
 
Oberon said:
I really feel for you.

It really pisses me off that most vets and farriers will refuse to support BF - which is often MUCH more successful than 'remedial farriery' of which the proven success is tenuous at best.

So when the owner has exhausted their bank account and insurance and looks for an alternative solution of BF.....the poor owner suddenly finds them self on their own.

And if they do take that brave step and get the horse sound.....are the vet and farrier interested in the success??? Are they buggery :(

I just can't understand the whole thing???
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I have just sent my vet the rockley farm link, so will wait to see what he says. My horse has had remedial farriery before, then they come off, back to normal shoes, couple of years later (if i'm lucky) problems are back, don't want to keep going round and round in circles as clearly his issues are never going to go away, it's just a case of managing them
as round and round in circles is just a waste of time and money - horse is 12 this year, he was 7 when it started
 
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things over and over again and expect to get different results.

Shoeing and remedial farrier is not working for your horse. Please do go down the Rockley Route.

My sister is a vet and has admitted they dont get any training on barefoot, either for remedial or as the norm, whilst they do get trained on remedial farriery. Also unless you have a specialist equine vet with a keen interest in hoof function they only have the very basic of knowledge - OBeron on here would kick their arses in a pop quiz!
 
catherine22 said:
I have just sent my vet the rockley farm link, so will wait to see what he says. My horse has had remedial farriery before, then they come off, back to normal shoes, couple of years later (if i'm lucky) problems are back, don't want to keep going round and round in circles as clearly his issues are never going to go away, it's just a case of managing them
as round and round in circles is just a waste of time and money - horse is 12 this year, he was 7 when it started
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I feel your frustration. There are many others who have been there before - quite a few on here.

While your horse has circulation - there is always hope.

I am one of the most suspicious people you'll ever encounter, but I have every faith in Nic and I know you would be in safe hands with her. If Nic doesn't think she can help your horse, she'll tell you straight.

The Barefoot Taliban is here if you need us;)
 
Well that's all very interesting, thanks everyone, you have put my mind at rest! Wonky barefoot feet shall remain unshod then!!!

Like many people have said, I have just been worried because they look wonky and not neat and symmetrical like they are 'expected' to.

Anyway, I can safely say that in my horse's case the removal of shoes worked at improving a funny gait far better than remedial shoeing did, and horse remained sound throughout.
 
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