Rennie?Tums

Biglets Mummy

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My old boy has got gastric ulcers that flares up over the winter so Ive been doing a bit of research into a cost effect way of giving him a bit of relief. I've been told bicarb of soda 15ml twice a day ( by my vet no less) and Ive read on here somewhere about feeding tums and rennie as well. How many would you need to give to make a difference?? Thanks all xxx:p
 

nix123

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I wouldn't give them anything due to the fact it can bloat you up and give you trapped wind if they dont agree with you. For the sake of a few quid ring your vet and see if he'll do a perscription which is horse friendly. You can then go and gett it on-line, but it doesnt always work out cheaper.
 

putasocinit

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Agree with nix. Not worth it, rather feed charcoal that will absorb and neutralise the acids surely and make sure horse has nay instead of haylege. You can get alkaneeze from global herbs which stops excess acid.
 

sidonnel

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I'm not a vet but am a pharmacist & can tell you that the likes of Rennies/tums/bicarbonate of soda are just to neutralise the acid & give relief of your symptoms when you have heartburn!Gastric ulcers are a whole different ball game & with ulcers you need to stop the acid production using a specific type of drug to do so....ulcers can bleed...& cause your horse to have a lowered haemoglobin level as a result...you might notice this in him lacking in energy etc....really would advise getting the proper stuff from the vet & of course looking at dietary & stress factors which seem to be the leading causes of ulcers in horses.....by giving tums you might make yourself feel better for doing something but I would recommend spending the money adjusting the feed regime instead..
 

Hedwards

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My boy has been treated with GastroGuard for ulcers, and I now manage his diet/turn out etc to make sure he's out with access to forage 24/7. I add Alltech Lifeforce to his diet, and it seriously helps him, really works!
 

Sussexbythesea

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I would think it not cost effective to buy Rennie or Tums and would be better off with a horse specific supplement e.g. U- gard, Settlex, etc. You would have to work out dosage to see which appears to be most cost effective and then it will vary from horse to horse as to whether it makes a difference.

This site has lots of info on ulcer management including diet and supplements.
http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm
 

pony&cow

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my girls just finished a 7 day course of gastrogaurd (but think she may need longer!?)
ive been looking into protexin acid ease and am awaiting a sample. does anyone have any experience of protexin? alot seem to reccomend alltech lifeforce.
 

philamena

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You'll likely need much longer on the gastroguard, p&c... Although in the states they quite often treat only for 10 to 14 days, lots of people need to treat for more than a month to be sure they've gone. Standard treatment is a month at full dose then between two and four weeks weaning off at gradually reducing doses. Protexin are good products - acid ease is good, though it works out expensive at full dosage. It's more of an antacid whereas more ulcer preventative products these days tend to include pectins and glutamine to encourage mucous and encourage healing of tissue, as well as the antacids to temporarily reduce the acidity. So I'd happily use acid ease ahead of riding to help prevent splash ulcers, but in terms of general prevention I'd use a supplement with good quantities of pectin and glutamine. The protexin I'd use with the gastric ulcer supplement is gut balancer - which is a pro and pre biotic to help the gut digest properly which in turn reduces acididty in that part of the GI tract. Gut acidity is a different (though often co-occuring) issue from gastric ulcers, and it needs different treatment. Alltech lifeforce is also for the gut rather than the stomach. Lots of horses need support for both stomach and gut, but they need supporting in different ways. Does that make sense?
 
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pony&cow

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very interesting philamena, thank you. so is there a supplement that does it all? temp acid ease as well as help healing? I spoke to protexin who said acid ease csn actually heal ulcers when used long term.... but they would say that, right???
my girl hasnt been scoped as im against the 12 hour starvation really but will ask my vet if I should try more gg. wonder why they only suggested 1 week?
has anyone ever ordered from myvetmeds or anywhere else cheaper than £42 per tube from my vet.
 

philamena

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If you haven't scoped, they probably prescribed a week as a trial - ie if you see an improvement in symptoms then you have your diagnosis and can treat. Beware if you're hoping to pay for this through insurance, most will require a scope. I know people worry about it but it's really not that bad, and if your horse is on GG then you're not likely to trigger ulcers in that time of starvation. Anyway, that's not what you asked! BUt just beware if you are hoping to claim. I'd agree that acid ease can allow splash ulcers to heal if used long term, if you feed it before riding so it reduces acid splashes up onto the top part of the stomach, but I really can't see that it's going to heal ulcers in the bottom part of the stomach because it just can't combat the acid for long enough because it passes through with normal digestion.

So when people refer to protexin, be aware that acid ease and gut balancer are two different products designed to do different things.

There are some products which have both gastric supporting ingredients and gut supporting ingredients - one is the Gastric Health one from Ten Supplements which has a pretty good ingredients profile in comparison with many others. Or you could pick your gastric supplement and add in Yea Sacc for not much more. THough I have to say I find Protexin Gut Balancer better than the various generic Yea Saccs I've tried, even though in essence the ingredients on paper are the same. Perhaps it's a quality of ingredients thing I don't know.
 

philamena

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I tried the protexin, was not at all impressed, so went straight back to the alltech lifeforce... Normality resumed!

Lifeforce is a Yea Sacc and selection of vitamins and minerals. I've tried it and found no difference to the Protexin (though no deterioration either) so chose to stick with Gut Balancer because horse is already getting vits and mins balanced to forage, and Protexin works out cheaper. Most of the vits and minerals wouldn't be a problem if they were taken in excess, except the selenium which it's best not to overdose.

Either road up, neither of them is the best profile of support for gastric issues, so it'll depend whether the problem causing the discomfort is more gastric or more in the gut as to whether it's any Yea Sacc based product which is going to make the difference.
 

Dizzydancer

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Im about to put my lad on bicarb as recommended by vet also- he doesn't have ulcers just lots of gurgling and acid present so this is to try and neutralize it all a bit more. Will get it next week once ordered in.
 

amandap

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really would advise getting the proper stuff from the vet & of course looking at dietary & stress factors which seem to be the leading causes of ulcers in horses.....by giving tums you might make yourself feel better for doing something but I would recommend spending the money adjusting the feed regime instead..
I agree. If it's only in winter I suppose stable time is increased? I would reassess winter management and forage quantity. Try and ensure he never runs out of hay if/when stabled.
 

Hedwards

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Lifeforce is a Yea Sacc and selection of vitamins and minerals. I've tried it and found no difference to the Protexin (though no deterioration either) so chose to stick with Gut Balancer because horse is already getting vits and mins balanced to forage, and Protexin works out cheaper. Most of the vits and minerals wouldn't be a problem if they were taken in excess, except the selenium which it's best not to overdose.

Either road up, neither of them is the best profile of support for gastric issues, so it'll depend whether the problem causing the discomfort is more gastric or more in the gut as to whether it's any Yea Sacc based product which is going to make the difference.

Lifeforce is rather more then just yea sacc... It also deals with mitotoxins (particularly important if you feed haylage) & enhances the guts ability to absorb nutrients from the feed. It has also been shown to have fantastic results for improving hooves & sweet itch, I saw a marked degradation in My geldings behaviour & his coat on th protexin, plus lifeforce only works out at £30/month, protexin acid ease is about the same or more expensive...
 

philamena

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Lifeforce is rather more then just yea sacc... It also deals with mitotoxins (particularly important if you feed haylage) & enhances the guts ability to absorb nutrients from the feed. It has also been shown to have fantastic results for improving hooves & sweet itch, I saw a marked degradation in My geldings behaviour & his coat on th protexin, plus lifeforce only works out at £30/month, protexin acid ease is about the same or more expensive...

I didn't say it was just yea sacc. If you look at the ingredients it's a yea sacc base with bioplex minerals (copper, manganese, iron and zinc) and selenium. It's the yea sacc that enhances the ability to absorb nutrients (the same process all good gut biotics aim to do because it's improved digestion which improves digestion of nutrients). It's the minerals that improve hooves and sweet itch, as well as the increased nutrient absorption from improved digestion.

That's why I said you can't compare Lifeforce with acid ease. Acid ease doesn't aim to act on the gut in the same way - it aims to reduce acid in the stomach - and you're right it is quite a bit more expensive at the proper dose. I'm also unconvinced that consistently using antacids does any good in the long term.

Gut Balancer does aim to act on the gut in a similar way to lifeforce (minus the minerals) and is about £23 a month. So if you want the minerals and selenium - which would depend on what else the horse is on as selenium is added to some feeds - then it's a toss up whether you want to add the other ingredients separately or included. It certainly probably would work out cheaper to use the lifeforce than use a yea sacc product and add the minerals separately.

Anyways, until you know whether the discomfort is in the gastric area or the gut, or both, it's impossible to say what will work best. If the issue is purely gastric it's unlikely to be any of these three products.

On the subject of bicarb, the natural bicarb in horses saliva helps to manage their natural acidity levels so it does make sense that supplementing may make up for weaknesses in this area. It's a common ingredient in quite a lot of the gastric support / ulcer prevention supplements these days.
 

Slinkyunicorn

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If you haven't scoped, they probably prescribed a week as a trial - ie if you see an improvement in symptoms then you have your diagnosis and can treat. Beware if you're hoping to pay for this through insurance, most will require a scope. I know people worry about it but it's really not that bad, and if your horse is on GG then you're not likely to trigger ulcers in that time of starvation. Anyway, that's not what you asked! BUt just beware if you are hoping to claim. I'd agree that acid ease can allow splash ulcers to heal if used long term, if you feed it before riding so it reduces acid splashes up onto the top part of the stomach, but I really can't see that it's going to heal ulcers in the bottom part of the stomach because it just can't combat the acid for long enough because it passes through with normal digestion.

So when people refer to protexin, be aware that acid ease and gut balancer are two different products designed to do different things.

There are some products which have both gastric supporting ingredients and gut supporting ingredients - one is the Gastric Health one from Ten Supplements which has a pretty good ingredients profile in comparison with many others. Or you could pick your gastric supplement and add in Yea Sacc for not much more. THough I have to say I find Protexin Gut Balancer better than the various generic Yea Saccs I've tried, even though in essence the ingredients on paper are the same. Perhaps it's a quality of ingredients thing I don't know.

Just so you know there is no such thing as a generic Yea-Sacc. It is a patent protected produced which is supplied by Alltech to the different feed and supplement manufacturers for inclusion in their products. Whether it is then present in those products in sufficient quantities to be effective is their choice. Lifeforce is strictly manufactured and tested bu Alltech to meet strict standards and that is why it is one of the few products approved for use by the FEI at all levels of competition.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Following a tip on here, I give my mare Aloe Vera juice to keep her stomach settled. She has not been diagnosed with ulcers but showed many of the classic symptoms, girthyness, grumpiness and she has also had 3 episodes of colic, although I'm not sure that was related. We noticed a difference in her behaviour after just a few days and when I ran out we noticed that her behaviour had deteriorated again very quickly - she knocked the stable wall down, kicking out at her neighbour. I've made sure we never run out again and in fact, when we were snowed in last winter, I gave her Aloe Vera tablets which were all I had available and they worked too.
 

philamena

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Just so you know there is no such thing as a generic Yea-Sacc. It is a patent protected produced which is supplied by Alltech to the different feed and supplement manufacturers for inclusion in their products. Whether it is then present in those products in sufficient quantities to be effective is their choice. Lifeforce is strictly manufactured and tested bu Alltech to meet strict standards and that is why it is one of the few products approved for use by the FEI at all levels of competition.

OK - another product containing either Yea Sacc or effective levels of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae then. I don't have a problem with the product - as I said, it worked as well on the gut as the one I'm using when I trialled it - but it isn't designed to counteract the effects of gastric acid specifically in the stomach, which is what the OP asked. THe kind of conditions which create acidity in the stomach often also cause digestion issues in the gut so creating the conditions which ease acidity in the stomach usually also helps to reduce acidity or compromised digestion in the gut. But just supporting the stomach may not be enough on its own and horses may need specific help for the gut as well as specific help for the stomach. But the GI tract certainly doesn't work the other way around, so while a less acidic stomach helps to create a less acidic gut, solely supporting the gut itself won't "work backwards" to have an impact on the acidity (or resilience to acidity) in the stomach. In this instance it sounds like the OP wants help choosing something to support the stomach itself.

For those who've mentioned Aloe Vera - it is well rated by quite a few people who use it as a preventative and to aid healing, and several of the racehorse retraining places are using it now including Moorcroft. They recommend 60-100mls syringed in rather than added to food.
 
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