Repeal Possible Without Scottish Labour MPs

[Judgemental]

If there is devolution so that Scottish MPs cannot vote on the legislation of England and Wales it is feasible for a repeal of the Hunting Act 2004 of England and Wales.

The Scottish Parliament voted for a ban.

Therefore it is no longer fair for Scottish MP's to have a say in such matters and will be governed by The West Lothian Question.

 

[Tea Drinker]

Wow - that would be great.
Guess you'd have to look up how each (English) MP voted in the Ban, that are still serving MPs of course and then see if the Maths stack up. I would think that if DC thinks the maths are with him, he would put it up for a vote IF the Tories won the next election. UKIP are our biggest threat to over turning the Ban. They take away Tory votes at the general election.

 

[Judgemental]

Wow - that would be great.
Guess you'd have to look up how each (English) MP voted in the Ban, that are still serving MPs of course and then see if the Maths stack up. I would think that if DC thinks the maths are with him, he would put it up for a vote IF the Tories won the next election. UKIP are our biggest threat to over turning the Ban. They take away Tory votes at the general election.

This is a very interesting subject.

Clearly the General Election campaign for May 2015 started today.

If only English and Welsh MPs are allowed to vote on matters of the laws of England and Wales the Hunting Act 2004 and repeal is a realistic runner.

So far as UKIP is concerned, Nigel Farage is running around the West Country glad handing every master of hounds he can ingratiate himself with, similary his general method of operation nationally is somewhat shallow and insincere..

At one time I thought he was a force to be reckoned with. Yes I know UKIP could take the Conservative vote and let Labour in the door.

However if the electorate are confident in devolution to the parliament in Westminster for matters exclusively English and Welsh they will see that a vote for the Conservatives will be an advantage.

As for EU membership - no change for the foreseeable future.

However, the one element that has to be considered is Mr Milliband's personal interest in Land Tax and Business Rates, to be introduced for all farms and farm land.

He has said recently the issue has remained unchanged since 1929 and too many farmers and landowners are enriching themselves at the expense of the tax payer. I believe our Ed is something of an authority on the Single Farm Payment.

If I were in Mr Milliband's shoes I would say to the Conservatives, "we Labour will agree to a repeal of the Hunting Act 2004 (with certain reservations) on the understanding a land tax and business rates on all farms are nodded through Parliament".

After all, what are a few foxes and deer compared with the fiscal points that Labour would score with the electorate.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

On the contrary, Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are very vulnerable in the aftermath of the referendum. As the general public has consistently and overwhelmingly been opposed to the ban being lifted, I doubt they'll risk alienating an already pee'd off electorate further.

 

[Judgemental]

On the contrary, Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are very vulnerable in the aftermath of the referendum. As the general public has consistently and overwhelmingly been opposed to the ban being lifted, I doubt they'll risk alienating an already pee'd off electorate further.

In normal circumstances I would agree.

However Messrs Cameron, Clegg and Milliband formed a remarkable and unique political cartel that issued a huge bribe worth billions to the Scottish people to remain the Union.

How do they propose to pay for that bribe.

Land Taxes.

 

[Countryman]

It certainly should be possible, once this is sorted out. There are 573 English & Welsh MP's in the Commons, so, if only these could vote on repealing the Hunting Act - which only applies in England and Wales, a majority of 287 MP's would be needed for repeal. Of these E&W seats, the Conservatives hold 303 of them, so repeal would (just about) be possible, with a majority of 16 - which allows for the handful of anti hunting Tories.

 

[Lizzie66]

It certainly should be possible, once this is sorted out. There are 573 English & Welsh MP's in the Commons, so, if only these could vote on repealing the Hunting Act - which only applies in England and Wales, a majority of 287 MP's would be needed for repeal. Of these E&W seats, the Conservatives hold 303 of them, so repeal would (just about) be possible, with a majority of 16 - which allows for the handful of anti hunting Tories.

Don't forget it is a free vote so there won't be party lines. However there are some non-conservative MPs who are opposed to a ban, Kate Hoey springs to mind. So yes you might just get it through. Would the NI be barred from voting as well ?

 

[Judgemental]

Don't forget it is a free vote so there won't be party lines. However there are some non-conservative MPs who are opposed to a ban, Kate Hoey springs to mind. So yes you might just get it through. Would the NI be barred from voting as well ?

I thought of the Northern Irish when I originally posted.

This is a very interest part of the whole argument, because the Hunting Act 2004 does not apply to Northern Ireland which of course, is part of the United Kingdom.

In my opinion if the Scottish MP's could not vote in English affairs, the whole complexion of Parliament would change and the Whips might 'persuade' The Blue Foxes that it would be in their career interests to vote for repeal.

Of course I will incur the indignation of some, by suggesting it should not be a free vote but one with a three line whip.

 

[LittleRooketRider]

He has said recently the issue has remained unchanged since 1929 and too many farmers and landowners are enriching themselves at the expense of the tax payer. I believe our Ed is something of an authority on the Single Farm Payment.

.

Sorry...but "enriching themselves" I bl@@dy wish

 

[Judgemental]

Sorry...but "enriching themselves" I bl@@dy wish

Whatever your view, it is as well to realise that a huge part of the population and in particular the labour Party see farmers and landowners as the rich elite of this nation.

Your, picture/avatar of that good looking £10,000.00 sport/ horse or similar gives credence to the notion that folk with horses and therefore land are rich.

At £11,000.00 per acre what is anybody expected to think.

Coupled to Million pound farm houses and buildings that can be converted. Especially in Dorset.

Then there are the staggering handouts in the form of the Single Farm Payment

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. . As the general public has consistently and overwhelmingly been opposed to the ban being lifted, …….. .

From where did you glean that rather curious statement? The simple fact is that the General Public couldn't give a stuff.

Alec.

 

[Countryman]

In my opinion if the Scottish MP's could not vote in English affairs, the whole complexion of Parliament would change and the Whips might 'persuade' The Blue Foxes that it would be in their career interests to vote for repeal.

The "Blue Foxes" are less than a dozen in number, and I would suspect that one or two of them might well be willing to abstain from the vote. The vast majority of Conservatives would back repeal, as would a handful of Lib Dems and two or three Labour MP's.

 

[Judgemental]

The "Blue Foxes" are less than a dozen in number, and I would suspect that one or two of them might well be willing to abstain from the vote. The vast majority of Conservatives would back repeal, as would a handful of Lib Dems and two or three Labour MP's.

My goodness me Countryman, we are singing off the same song sheet for a change and dare I say, twice in a week!

 

[Alec Swan]

^^^^

The sad thing, of course, is that barely 1% of MPs will vote with any degree of conscience. They will all view their stance as being of influence and of benefit to their 'standing'.

Looking at a hunting map of the UK, there is not one inch of land that is not in someone's country. I wonder if the urban/rural vote can be measured, or weighed, and if those rural MPs, were there enough, be persuaded to consider their constituents. Let's face it, the reality is that the bulk of the UK urban community, and those who preside over our daily lives couldn't give two hoots about Hunting, or those who Hunt.

Alec.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

From where did you glean that rather curious statement? The simple fact is that the General Public couldn't give a stuff.

Alec.

The latest figures last Boxing Day ;http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3315/Hunting-Poll-2013.aspx.

 

[Alec Swan]

Polls are as reliable as art, music and theatre critics. Polls are paid for by those with a vested interest and by inference, are biased to the point of being both unreliable and wildly inaccurate. Consider two questions;

'Do you think it right that wild animals have domestic dogs set upon them and to kill them, whilst the landed gentry and the wealthy stand by, jeering and cheering'?

Then consider what the reply might be to the next question;

'Do you consider that a time served and honoured system which has formed and developed over hundreds of years whereby a skilled and considerate and principled system has developed whereby the hunted animal is seen as a vital and intrinsic part of a sport, and one by which the well being of the species actually benefits from the elderly and the weak reaching a certain and humane end, and would you consider that those who have a passion for the hunted animal, and it's genetic improvement and continuance, are the barbarians which those with no understanding would portray'?

Polls are paid for and the one who pays the piper is the one who decides upon the tune. I'll say again that the bulk of the British Public couldn't give a stuff about hunting, or those who hunt.

Alec.

 

[oakash]

'Girls or horses but not both'..Alec, both for me, please..and can I take your share?

As has been mentioned, campaigning has begun already, but I for one am against tactical voting.Vote for what you believe in.I happen to believe our independence from Europe is our first priority,let's get a UKIP government and we will get the right people into it as the rats leave the sinking ship, so to speak.

 

[Alec Swan]

'Girls or horses but not both'..Alec, both for me, please..and can I take your share?

As has been mentioned, campaigning has begun already, but I for one am against tactical voting.Vote for what you believe in.I happen to believe our independence from Europe is our first priority,let's get a UKIP government and we will get the right people into it as the rats leave the sinking ship, so to speak.

Today's news advises us that a Conservative MP (with the curious and possibly prophetic surname of Reckless) has defected to UKIP. Nige assures us that there are others showing an interest. You may well get your wish! I suspect that Cameron in his arrogance, just as he did with the Scottish Referendum, will rely upon the fact that the status quo will hold, until the last minute, when as last week, he'll then panic and make promises which he has no intention of keeping.

Considering our places in Heaven, the operative word is 'OR'. When I'm suitably ensconced, then there will be Girls OR Horses, so you'll just have to find your own supplies. Sorry!

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

Today's news advises us that a Conservative MP (with the curious and possibly prophetic surname of Reckless) has defected to UKIP. Nige assures us that there are others showing an interest. You may well get your wish! I suspect that Cameron in his arrogance, just as he did with the Scottish Referendum, will rely upon the fact that the status quo will hold, until the last minute, when as last week, he'll then panic and make promises which he has no intention of keeping.

Considering our places in Heaven, the operative word is 'OR'. When I'm suitably ensconced, then there will be Girls OR Horses, so you'll just have to find your own supplies. Sorry!

Alec.

We walked a hound called Reckless but it proved to be very reliable.

Will Owen Patterson jump ship? If ever a man was treated badly by his political masters, bearing in mind the excellent job he did concerning the Somerset Levels and flooding. Owen is a prime example.

Trouble is, all these Old Etonians that Cameron surrounds himself, all think in the same way and are unable to think out of the 'same box'.

 

[Countryman]

I would point out that the MP, Reckless, who defected today to UKIP, is one of the "Blue Foxes", and not only has he voted against the Badger cull, but he is one of the handful of Tories who have vowed to vote AGAINST repeal of the Hunting Act.

 

[LittleRooketRider]

Whatever your view, it is as well to realise that a huge part of the population and in particular the labour Party see farmers and landowners as the rich elite of this nation.

Your, picture/avatar of that good looking £10,000.00 sport/ horse or similar gives credence to the notion that folk with horses and therefore land are rich.

At £11,000.00 per acre what is anybody expected to think.

Coupled to Million pound farm houses and buildings that can be converted. Especially in Dorset.

Then there are the staggering handouts in the form of the Single Farm Payment

That is in fact an ex-racer we got on the cheap..and actually hda to have put down due to kissing spines is irrelevant. We are certainly not landed gentry but a family business which my granparents and dad have spent the last 40 years working hard to gradually build up, we certainly couldn't afford to buy the land in bulk or even an acre as and when we pleases and we certianly don't have a million pound farm houses or barns that could be converted. We never get a sniff of "staggering handouts in the form of single farm payment".

i actually find your assumptions offensive and your username very fitting... rich elite my @rse

 

[Alec Swan]

That is in fact an ex-racer we got on the cheap..and actually hda to have put down due to kissing spines is irrelevant. We are certainly not landed gentry but a family business which my granparents and dad have spent the last 40 years working hard to gradually build up, we certainly couldn't afford to buy the land in bulk or even an acre as and when we pleases and we certianly don't have a million pound farm houses or barns that could be converted. We never get a sniff of "staggering handouts in the form of single farm payment".

i actually find your assumptions offensive and your username very fitting... rich elite my @rse

I'm sorry J_m, but the quote above is a responsible response, I strongly suspect that it's from a grass-roots perspective, and it is indeed, the reality for those who are the realists, amongst us.

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

I'm sorry J_m, but the quote above is a responsible response, I strongly suspect that it's from a grass-roots perspective, and it is indeed, the reality for those who are the realists, amongst us.

Alec.

Alec why is it, the merest whiff of a suggestion that folk with horses, land (tenanted or otherwise) are wealthy, immediately generates pleas of impoverished begging bowl subsistence farming, scratching a living in 'potato patch'.

 

[Alec Swan]

Alec why is it, the merest whiff of a suggestion that folk with horses, land (tenanted or otherwise) are wealthy, immediately generates pleas of impoverished begging bowl subsistence farming, scratching a living in 'potato patch'.

There's no fit answer to such a daft question. Further, such daft questions are not deserving of a sensible reply.

Alec.

 

[LittleRooketRider]

Alec why is it, the merest whiff of a suggestion that folk with horses, land (tenanted or otherwise) are wealthy, immediately generates pleas of impoverished begging bowl subsistence farming, scratching a living in 'potato patch'.

I never said we were "impoverished" just not as you would assume rolling in it.

 

[Judgemental]

Where are we going with Mr Farage and UKIP? Will he or won't he sustain the momentum?

He bravely states he will do a deal with the Cons if he has a enough MPs.

If UKIP are successful the whole political scene is thrown into a huge melting pot.

 

[Alec Swan]

The problem with UKIP, or so it seems to me, is that with no track record we don't really have a yard stick by which to judge them. I suppose that we'd be safer if we were to assume that as they come under the generic heading of 'Politicians', then they will take the path of popularism and they won't have any real interest in those who they represent and who pay for and support their very existence, but will be self representing.

I predict that within your 'huge melting pot', we will before too long see the bobbing heads of our appointed, and as they surface. Repeal? Not a hope in hell.

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

It seems that a variety of folk hold the view Ed Milliband is going to get the sack and Gordon Brown is going to be parachuted into the leadership of the Labour Party.

That is an interesting possibility.

If that happens Cameron will have to be replaced because he is no match for Brown.

Where does that leave UKIP - on the back foot because Brown will deal with Farage in very short order.

Whatever one's politics, Gordon Brown is very clever, highly experienced and a great orator. Give him his due, it was he who was largely responsible for persuading the Scots to vote NO.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

Where does that leave UKIP - on the back foot because Brown will deal with Farage in very short order.

…….. .

You're confusing the two words, 'Intellect' and 'Street'. Intellect will never win any argument in a public debate which is held in a public place and which involves the Public. The Public, however, have memories which are long enough, and Farage will wipe the floor with Brown, from the perspective of 'The Public'. You see if I'm not right.

Brown and Blair were both loathed, and with justification. "Listen to me", will no longer wash, from either of them. I have grave misgivings about Farage, but when compared with two of the most evil of British PMs, the man is lengths in front.

Alec.

 

[Countryman]

On the subject of repeal I personally think we are quite lucky to have Cameron as leader, as he is a lot more sympathetic than your average Tory minister.

Interestingly, William Hague said yesterday that government plans for English Votes for English Laws will begin being set out by the end of November, and that the government will go it alone if Labour does not agree with them and continues to veto the suggestions simply because it would damage their political power.