Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
I hope so
Rescue Roulette: Dogs from Abroad
- Thread starter skinnydipper
- Start date
gunnergundog
Well-Known Member
Am now intrigued and off to find which one the dry lips response applies to!
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
Just thought you might like to know.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
Now I strongly suspect that some of the most pro importation of dogs people feel very strongly against humans coming from dangerous places to safety here.
Mrs. Glittery Jingle Balls
Well-Known Member
Well I wouldn't say I am a strong advocate for importing rescue dogs, but the plight of those dogs does concern me hugely. Personally I wouldn't choose to import that is why my preference is to help those rescuing in the place of origin.
However, I just can't bring myself to castigate those who do for their own reasons.
I am equally concerned about the well being of genuine asylum seekers who are also in great danger in their place of origin. But I think it is just a pointless distraction to try to bring that challenging world problem into a thread about an entirely different issue.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
Fair point, it’s not irrelevant as it’s hypocritical to think dogs deserve a better life and humans don’t, but it’s not directly relevant on this thread.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I didn't choose a foreign import over a UK one. I was homechecked and approved for a UK GSD. I specifically found a dog I fell for, not a GSD (currently 10mo) and then found he was in Romania which I had not expected. For a lot of reasons and mental trauma (which I am not going into on here) I HAD to have this dog. If I couldn't have him I wouldn't have had any dog UK rescue or otherwise or even a puppy. It took 2 agonising months to get him much of it down to APHA testing. Not objecting I wouldn't have had a dog that hadn't been tested neg. So it wasn't a case of hand over money and take it away today. If I had gone to any rescue I would have wanted to choose my own dog.While rehoming an imported dog is not what I would do personally, and there is no denying that there are more environmental risks then most of us were aware of even a few years ago, done responsibly, it's better than obtaining a dog via puppy farming or some of the popular trading websites. However, responsibly to me would be isolation from the general dog population - not a bad option for some of these dogs mentally - until they had the later test for BC and being prepared to PTS if positive. I wouldn't want to do that so won't consider a foreign import even from one of the more ethical rescues. Sadly, there aren't many of them and that is another big issue.
I get the impression that those who go the import route, want a rescue but don't want to work with the conditions that UK rescues have - they want to pick a dog they like the look of primarily and get it quickly with minimal hoops to jump through, just pay your money which isn't really how UK rescues work.
In the big scheme of things, £500 isn't a lot for a dog. In my breed, a decent pup is £1500 - £2k plus all the associated costs once they're home so £500 looks like a bargainJust out of interest Paddy, feel free to ignore, how much are the extra blood tests costing? I have no idea of costs for stuff like that and presumably any treatment needed if something pops up wouldn't be covered under insurance as it's a pre existing condition?
I don't think £500 is excessive. Romanian rescues charge this or slightly less and there are always the dogs that cannot come over that either have to live as street dogs (hopefully fed and neutered) and those positive ones who also have to stay behind. If some of the money goes to feed/neuter them that is fine by me and similarly those who end up remaining in kennels for long periods or forever as they would in UK rescues.
As a couple of examples for the ACTH test (now a legal requirement for Romanian imports from 7/10 this year) then for my dog the cost was 154 Euro. This was transport to the vet the blood test, transportation to the post , the postage ( I think they have specific contracts to post) and the cost of the test which was £35 ie 41 EURO so 154 Euro in all. There is 30 days from when the blood taken and they arrive in the UK. (I'm sure you already know all of this but just posting in case someone doesn't) that is a very tight timescale. The costs for mine and some others for the ACTH test was in fact 308 euro because they had already been tested on a voluntary basis and were awaiting transport and then had to be retested again for defra for the 30 day limit which was introduced without warning.
They are also tested for the likes of erlichia, leish etc. Those were (in Euro)
Idexx 4x test Erchlichia, 56,
giardia 20
leish 25
canine brucella 25 that is NOT the APHA test but what they test for in Romania ie the snap test.
CDV distemper 20
and for that testing also tranport to the vet 60.
they also have to be passported which I don't think UK dogs have to be. There is the vet cost for passporting, chipping of course which everyone has and per his passport (but no costs I'm afraid) 2 rabies vacs, nexguard special for anti echinococcus treatment and anti parasite treatement, DHPPI and lepto x 2, clinical exam before he could leave and wormer before leaving.
I understand there are also costs to get the dog out of Lancram (it is a very nasty business) and the fosterers will also need covering for food etc. Some dogs will also need vet treatment before coming over.;
then of course there is also transport, the dogs have to be taken to collection centres, APHA tests have to be sent to RRB and 2 days before travel test results uploaded to IPAFFS. I don''t now if those 2 items have any vet etc cost.
That is a summary of what happens if it helps. My rescue charged £350 a dog (I took 2,) they would have made a loss (I made up the difference)
How anyone thinks they or any of the others is rolling in cash I have no idea.
For insurance then brucella canis wouldn't be covered I don't think because is it a reportable disease. Even the negative tested ones I imagine. I did get mine retested for all of the rest in the UK and I would expect petplan would cover them now supported by negative testing documents and vet health check.
sorry that turned out to be an essay, could have put it better.
gunnergundog
Well-Known Member
I think that both you and I are fortunate in that we have our own land to exercise our dogs on.
In my case, whilst mine is not ideal having only a small acreage, I also have access to other private land/shoots where the provenance of all dogs there is known.
Most people are not so lucky and have to exercise their dogs on public land, thereby exposing them to all and sundry, whatever their origins and health status.
‘It’s a rescue’ is the common refrain to excuse all sorts of behaviour (and possible resultant disease transfer) …whether from the UK or further afield I really don’t care, although those with more miles under their belt pose a greater risk to the indigenous population.
Whilst I can mitigate the risks to a reasonable extent, it is for those that reasonably can’t that I castigate those that do import rescues for their own reasons.
I fully support efforts to neuter etc in country of origin.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
I didn't choose a foreign import over a UK one. I was homechecked and approved for a UK GSD. I specifically found a dog I fell for, not a GSD (currently 10mo) and then found he was in Romania which I had not expected. For a lot of reasons and mental trauma (which I am not going into on here) I HAD to have this dog. If I couldn't have him I wouldn't have had any dog UK rescue or otherwise or even a puppy. It took 2 agonising months to get him much of it down to APHA testing. Not objecting I wouldn't have had a dog that hadn't been tested neg. So it wasn't a case of hand over money and take it away today. If I had gone to any rescue I would have wanted to choose my own dog.
I don't think £500 is excessive. Romanian rescues charge this or slightly less and there are always the dogs that cannot come over that either have to live as street dogs (hopefully fed and neutered) and those positive ones who also have to stay behind. If some of the money goes to feed/neuter them that is fine by me and similarly those who end up remaining in kennels for long periods or forever as they would in UK rescues.
As a couple of examples for the ACTH test (now a legal requirement for Romanian imports from 7/10 this year) then for my dog the cost was 154 Euro. This was transport to the vet the blood test, transportation to the post , the postage ( I think they have specific contracts to post) and the cost of the test which was £35 ie 41 EURO so 154 Euro in all. There is 30 days from when the blood taken and they arrive in the UK. (I'm sure you already know all of this but just posting in case someone doesn't) that is a very tight timescale. The costs for mine and some others for the ACTH test was in fact 308 euro because they had already been tested on a voluntary basis and were awaiting transport and then had to be retested again for defra for the 30 day limit which was introduced without warning.
They are also tested for the likes of erlichia, leish etc. Those were (in Euro)
Idexx 4x test Erchlichia, 56,
giardia 20
leish 25
canine brucella 25 that is NOT the APHA test but what they test for in Romania ie the snap test.
CDV distemper 20
and for that testing also tranport to the vet 60.
they also have to be passported which I don't think UK dogs have to be. There is the vet cost for passporting, chipping of course which everyone has and per his passport (but no costs I'm afraid) 2 rabies vacs, nexguard special for anti echinococcus treatment and anti parasite treatement, DHPPI and lepto x 2, clinical exam before he could leave and wormer before leaving.
I understand there are also costs to get the dog out of Lancram (it is a very nasty business) and the fosterers will also need covering for food etc. Some dogs will also need vet treatment before coming over.;
then of course there is also transport, the dogs have to be taken to collection centres, APHA tests have to be sent to RRB and 2 days before travel test results uploaded to IPAFFS. I don''t now if those 2 items have any vet etc cost.
That is a summary of what happens if it helps. My rescue charged £350 a dog (I took 2,) they would have made a loss (I made up the difference)
How anyone thinks they or any of the others is rolling in cash I have no idea.
For insurance then brucella canis wouldn't be covered I don't think because is it a reportable disease. Even the negative tested ones I imagine. I did get mine retested for all of the rest in the UK and I would expect petplan would cover them now supported by negative testing documents and vet health check.
sorry that turned out to be an essay, could have put it better.
Am only quoting you to highlight something you said , not to argue or criticise
I am happy to donate to help dogs in other countries as I am an animal lover and know the conditions can be bad, however I do not agree with so many dogs being bought into our country, it’s a business for many of these so called rescues, the one you have dealt with sounds more responsible than most . Rather than taking the dogs hundreds of miles any money would be better spent neutering healthy dogs and PTS the ones who aren’t . We have one dog local to me from Cyprus who is now, after 2 years, acting normally but others from different areas are not doing well, I met a very large rescue with a small lady , the dog is very unpredictable with other dogs and people and the lady was quite nervous as she saw me approach with my 3 even though I had put them on leads . If that dog had lunged at mine she wouldn’t have been able to hold it, yet another dog rehomed to an unsuitable, although well meaning person
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
only the ones with brown skin
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Can someone save me a google and tell me if there are charities doing neutering programmes over there? I could do a small bit of fundraising for one in the new year if there is. But I'm currently recovering from food poisioning and would be really useful if someone knew a good ethical one to save my poor befuddled brain having to do it this morning.
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
paddy555
Well-Known Member
in view of the fact that many are using Sophie from Romania as their example or difficult to deal with Rommie dogs I started reading the kindle last night. Well it is a very good example not of a dog but of a total and utter prize pillock. Unbelievable.
I have only read part and clearly Sophie was nervous but what she had to go through because of that pillock was simply not fair to her nor did it give a realistic insight to dogs.
Sophie arrived a week before Xmas 16/12. His main interest wasn't in helping Sophie (which for me would have been the whole purpose of the exercise) but of social media.. The importance of new followers, likes and comments on twitter, insta etc seemed to rule his existence let alone the press and BBC when they came along. Managing to get the odd pic of Sophie to post was his main preoccupation.
he admitted he was impatient, he expected to take her for the same walk as his old dog on day 1 and for everyone to meet and greet her. (not sure where defra's rules came into that
)
within a couple of days the neighbours came round eager to meet S. Sophie was terrified of a vacuum cleaner yet he allowed the cleaner to carry on with her noisy vacuum. A week after arrival they had a party including kids who obviously wanted to meet S. Sophie remained behind the sofa the rest of them partied in the same room.
He heard of t he 3/3/3 rule and noted that Sophie had failed it and he felt a little cross.
This is not a reasonable example for anyone to use re Rommie dogs but it is a perfect example of someone selfishly obsessed with their own importance on SM at the expense of their rescue dog be it UK or foreign.
He ddid make one point about UK rescues which I have heard many times before. He had heard, like many of us had, of rescues being over run with dogs. Reports that they had record numbers of dogs. So he tried to adopt that way. He discovered there were 25,000 people on battersea's waiting list and per his words "dogs were being snapped up like Glastonbury tickets"
He tried the Dog's trust but most dogs already had reserved labels on them, there were 7 people looking at each dog.
I have only read part and clearly Sophie was nervous but what she had to go through because of that pillock was simply not fair to her nor did it give a realistic insight to dogs.
Sophie arrived a week before Xmas 16/12. His main interest wasn't in helping Sophie (which for me would have been the whole purpose of the exercise) but of social media.. The importance of new followers, likes and comments on twitter, insta etc seemed to rule his existence let alone the press and BBC when they came along. Managing to get the odd pic of Sophie to post was his main preoccupation.
he admitted he was impatient, he expected to take her for the same walk as his old dog on day 1 and for everyone to meet and greet her. (not sure where defra's rules came into that
)within a couple of days the neighbours came round eager to meet S. Sophie was terrified of a vacuum cleaner yet he allowed the cleaner to carry on with her noisy vacuum. A week after arrival they had a party including kids who obviously wanted to meet S. Sophie remained behind the sofa the rest of them partied in the same room.
He heard of t he 3/3/3 rule and noted that Sophie had failed it and he felt a little cross.
This is not a reasonable example for anyone to use re Rommie dogs but it is a perfect example of someone selfishly obsessed with their own importance on SM at the expense of their rescue dog be it UK or foreign.
He ddid make one point about UK rescues which I have heard many times before. He had heard, like many of us had, of rescues being over run with dogs. Reports that they had record numbers of dogs. So he tried to adopt that way. He discovered there were 25,000 people on battersea's waiting list and per his words "dogs were being snapped up like Glastonbury tickets"
He tried the Dog's trust but most dogs already had reserved labels on them, there were 7 people looking at each dog.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
also not arguing with you.Am only quoting you to highlight something you said , not to argue or criticise
I am happy to donate to help dogs in other countries as I am an animal lover and know the conditions can be bad, however I do not agree with so many dogs being bought into our country, it’s a business for many of these so called rescues, the one you have dealt with sounds more responsible than most . Rather than taking the dogs hundreds of miles any money would be better spent neutering healthy dogs and PTS the ones who aren’t . We have one dog local to me from Cyprus who is now, after 2 years, acting normally but others from different areas are not doing well, I met a very large rescue with a small lady , the dog is very unpredictable with other dogs and people and the lady was quite nervous as she saw me approach with my 3 even though I had put them on leads . If that dog had lunged at mine she wouldn’t have been able to hold it, yet another dog rehomed to an unsuitable, although well meaning person
I think it is simply a personal view if people believe dogs should be imported or not. Up to them. There are plenty of examples of successful foreign adoptions and equally ones that fail exactly the same as UK ones. I didn't have much of a view until I found my dog online. Then I had 2 months learning very very intensively about them. I learnt a lot from the rescue people (a lot more than most learn)
I don't think anyone would fail to support neutering and for B Canis it is y very important to do so. Mine didn't have a choice about neutering. When I asked the rescue I was told the shelter would not release the bitch without.
Would I do it again then yes (although these are likely to be my last dogs due to age) From the dogs POV they have a home with food, vet and beds etc and I haven't seen much evidence they would like to be street dogs as some suggest. Not all street dogs adapt I realise. They are a happy pair of dogs and whilst it has taken exactly 5 weeks for the nervous, anxious bitch to overcome her fear she has now exploded out of her shell and is running around happily coming to me, tail wagging, when I call her. For 5 weeks of "suffering" she will have a good life from now on.
Should they be PTS over there then yes some should be, should dogs in UK rescues who are hard to rehome and have very specialised needs or potential to bite etc equally be PTS then yes although I'm not sure they are. Are they?
re your final sentence then yes it is horrible to have a dog lunging with an owner possibly unable to hold it but that is not restricted to foreign rescues. How many of the dogs in the irresponsible dog threads are UK ones. the vast majority. Rescue dogs both UK and foreign are rehomed to unsuitable people, people lie to get UK ones. It is all dogs not just foreign ones.
There are some UK ones that I would (and have) crossed the road to avoid as I am scared of them. I realise their handlers would have little control. One of those was an akita and several were bull breeds. I watched a dog that was merely a staffordshire bull terrier sink it's teeth into my horse's leg and fail to let go, it was impossible to get it to release. Personally I feel a lot safer with the overseas dogs I have met (we get a lot round here with tourist wallkers) than with some UK ones.