Rescued- or sold for profit?

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stormox

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What do people think of this trend of 'rescuers' taking young dogs/pups (mainly collie and collie x) from pounds, rescue centres etc in Ireland, and shipping them over to English rescues who then rehome them for fee?
I am a regular traveller on the ferry from Ireland to UK and see the dogs being swapped from the Irish rescue vans to English ones (including NCDL regularly.
Are they not just doing it for profit between the rescues involved? Whuy do it at all when I have just seen a programme on Manchester dogs home which has over 200 dogs waiting for homes? It seems to be homing some dogs alright, but at the expense of others.
I know the farmers in Ireland are inclined to leave their dogs loose in the yard at night, and they get out and mate the neighbours bitches, but surely they should be educating those people, not using the results of their ignorance to make a profit, which masks the problem.
 
stormox said:
What do people think of this trend of 'rescuers' taking young dogs/pups (mainly collie and collie x) from pounds, rescue centres etc in Ireland, and shipping them over to English rescues who then rehome them for fee?
I am a regular traveller on the ferry from Ireland to UK and see the dogs being swapped from the Irish rescue vans to English ones (including NCDL regularly.
Are they not just doing it for profit between the rescues involved? Whuy do it at all when I have just seen a programme on Manchester dogs home which has over 200 dogs waiting for homes? It seems to be homing some dogs alright, but at the expense of others.
I know the farmers in Ireland are inclined to leave their dogs loose in the yard at night, and they get out and mate the neighbours bitches, but surely they should be educating those people, not using the results of their ignorance to make a profit, which masks the problem.
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Its a bit of a supply and demand issue. There is not a hugh demand in Ireland for rehoming dogs although we do have a rescue "system" of mostly volunteer rescue across the country.

Does it make a profit..hard to know. Taking into account that the dogs do tend to be treated for illness. neutered etc as well as traveled I would imagine that the margins are not very high. I would imagine however that the dogs saved from here are much more in high demand and easily adopted out due to type.

Many young dogs and crossbreeds as well as numerous pedigrees etc often with a lot more variety in type than are seen in the Irish pounds every week.
Heres Dunboyne pound,which takes in from the greater Dublin area Tallaght etc, intake for this week....
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151218359342474.512516.270131087473&type=1
Over the last few months of following the thread on facebook each week I have seen a hugh array of dogs go through there. So many pups and so many pedigree' of every size shape and condition imaginable as well as all the Crossbreds. It has one of the lowest kill counts in the country thanks to the Rescues that work out of it.

Staffie, Akita's etc are high on the type of dogs who meet their deaths in even the good pounds here due to lack of space and interest. Plus the fact many potential owners are put off them due to the dangerous dogs restrictions.A number of breeds over here are ment to be muzzled in public,not allowed off leash in public spaces or handled in public by the under 16's.Its poorly enforced but more than a little off putting.
The space within normal rescues is usually capped in relation to the amount of bullies they can take as they need to be rehoming in order to save as many dogs as possible. Most of the dogs shipped off tend to be very rehomeable in England. Which do you think is more likely to be rehomed.....the colliex pups or the grown Staff? If you could save a number of pups easily and rehome them in a few weeks why take up the rescue/foster space's with a difficult to rehome dog? We kill hundreds every week. I would imagine that in some areas its a matter of save what you can.Some pounds here also do not allow rehoming to rescues(cue very high kill rates) or rehoming of the "dangerous dogs" breeds :(

Ignorance isn't as large as you would think. Very few people are unaware thats the dogs can be neutered etc. Farmers generally visit vets more than most people.
Its a choice made not to neuter for a variety of reasons, the potential profit of a few pups, the "effect" on working dogs if they are done, the general attitude of il just get a few pups out of her....and just general unwillingness to spend money on just a dog. The only neutered dogs I met as a child belonged to town people ...or English people.We never neutered our pets :( It has grown more common now thankfully.

The Dogs Trust does run a neutering scheme and there is discount neutering available but Its the general attitude of dogs as disposable and easily replaceable that is the issue.
 
Im not saying farmers are ignorant, and indeed most of the ones around me (Munster) think the world of their dogs, and if treatment is needed take them immdiately to the vets. But the older ones do tend to be a little old fashioned in the way they let their dogs roam (just like in the UK 50 years ago) and I dont think its money stopping them getting them castrated- its a 'male thing' - 'poor dog I couldnt do that to him......'
But collies also do not make the best of pets, being active working dogs.
Its only 200 eu approx for a return ferry trip. 20 eu per dog if theres 10 dogs, and Ive seen vans with more than that dogs on. Vet attention and castration is very cheapfor them as the colleges use rescue centre dogs to train the vets. Then they are rehomed, at a fee of anything between £150-200.
But its just that I dont know if its ethical when there are so many dogs in Battersea, Wood Green, Manchester etc waiting for homes to import more dogs.
 
Everything Aru has said.....I can't believe there is much margin for profit TBH. I had a beautiful collie turn up at my place a couple of years ago....sat outside the gate and didnt budge for days.Enquiries locally ascertained that the elderly owner had died, and nobody had bothered to do anything about his poor dog.

After failing to find a new home for him, and having enough dogs of my own to contend with, I arranged with a Collie rescue centre in Dublin to have the dog taken over to a rescue centre in Wales where the dog would be assessed and then re-homed. We were told he would have to stay in Dublin though until all his vacs were up to date and he was castrated. We decided to get this done with our own vet as a very minor contribution towards the voluntary rescue group.

Did the rescue centre in Wales charge the new owners for him....I have no idea, nor does it bother me in the slightest if they did. Here he would have gone to the pound and almost certainly be PTS within a week or so.

If you take into account, the feeding, vacs, shipping to the UK, neutering, overheads of running buildings suitable to house them whilst they are undergoing all of this and awaiting rehoming.....I really cant see much of a profit there?

Is it ethical? I really don't know...but if it saves a dogs life and makes someone's home a better place with that dog in their lives, then its fine by me.
 
stormox said:
Im not saying farmers are ignorant, and indeed most of the ones around me (Munster) think the world of their dogs, and if treatment is needed take them immdiately to the vets. But the older ones do tend to be a little old fashioned in the way they let their dogs roam (just like in the UK 50 years ago) and I dont think its money stopping them getting them castrated- its a 'male thing' - 'poor dog I couldnt do that to him......'
But collies also do not make the best of pets, being active working dogs.
Its only 200 eu approx for a return ferry trip. 20 eu per dog if theres 10 dogs, and Ive seen vans with more than that dogs on. Vet attention and castration is very cheapfor them as the colleges use rescue centre dogs to train the vets. Then they are rehomed, at a fee of anything between £150-200.
But its just that I dont know if its ethical when there are so many dogs in Battersea, Wood Green, Manchester etc waiting for homes to import more dogs.
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Which vet collage uses rescue dogs to train vets in the UK? I know UCD works with the Dogs Trust. Been there got that tee shirt and from it will never darken the doors of said rescue again. I was not a fan of theirs (To many aggressive dogs up for rehoming and I dont believe that life in a kennel for the rest of their days is better than a quick and painless death)Though there scheme for neutering is something for then to be proud of.

But many of the dogs shipped off are from the smaller rescues who have to work with local vets to get their dogs treated true some work on discounts and generally they have hugh vets bills.At least our local ones do (Connaught)

That said your right about the ferry though sounds like it is relatively inexpensive. However I would still imagine that taking petrol/diesel and transport,then add inwormer/deflea, neutering and fixing any ailments, food and board for a few weeks and you do not get a lot of change if any out of 150/200 pounds.

On the ethics sides of things.... I do not want a Staffy or Husky when I do eventually get a dog. I am just not a hugh Bullie fan and Im not commited enough to take on a husky :P. I would like a choice in breed I rescue and I cant imagine that is an unusual attitude.
Looking at a website for manchester dogs and Cheshire dogs home now...there is not that much choice of breed. SBT's and crosses seem to be the hugh majority(likely because they are a popular breed within the irresponsible section of society, huskies appear to be the new fad at the moment taking over from staff's) I wouldn't be to pushed going there unless I was willing to consider or wanted a staff :( Thats not a good thing when it comes to getting people in and adopting dogs. At least if you get them in the door and meeting the dogs they might consider the more difficult to rehome dogs like staffies!
Greater choice in my mind anyway means greater numbers saved.
Does it matter where they come from? They are still dogs. The Uk and Ireland are very similar when it comes to disease etc so that is not a hugh concern either. As long as they are healthy dogs then I dont have a hugh issue with it.

Collies...ya they can be a bit intense alright. But at least if they are rehomed through a reputable rescue the new owners should have an idea of what they are signing up for.
 
I think it's madness to transport dogs from another country to rehome here when there are dogs here waiting and we are overflowing with dogs in need. I was frankly appalled to see the Romanian dogs being imported recently. Gobsmacking.
 
I cant believe they make much money out of it even allowing for subsidising of neutering,chipping etc.

I too have grave doubts about bringing these dogs over here when dogs are still being put down over here. If I was in Irish rescue with little or no chance of rehoming a rescue dog then given the opportunity I would send my dogs over here.
 
Langford vet school at Bristol do ultra cheap neutering so their students get practical hands on practical work before being set loose in the real world Aru:)
 
I have just been reading a FB page of a rescue (A.H.A.R) that sends dogs to the uk and it said "we have just loaded 42 dogs into a transporter bound for the UK". I think it must be being done on a larger scale than I realised!
 
I don't think there's an easy answer to this. I agree that it does seem mad to transport animals between the two countries cost wise but i can understand why it's done. The people responsible for it are usually those that run small rescue shelters with a non - euthanasia policy. The rescue where I got Holly from occasionally sent dogs to the UK. I think they have contacts with a few breed rescues and also with the dog's trust. Dogs that are sent over are usually ones that will have trouble rehoming in the area and are more likely to get a home in the UK. For example a litter of 12 wk old gsd xs were sent over as they had had little to no interest in them here in Ireland and believed they had greater chance of finding homes in the UK. Holly was also due to be sent over if I hadn't taken her. There is no way they made a profit on her despite me getting her straight from the rescue. I paid €100 and she was spayed, vaccinated and had her eye removed. They also had her for 6 weeks.
Many of the dogs in this rescue were not farmers dogs. There was only one staffy in 40 dogs. Most were rescue cases or owners not wanting them anymore and I think that is the case everywhere.
Sometimes I think a non - euthanasia policy is a bad idea. I disagree with the way dogs trust handling it, some aggressive dogs living in packs that will never even be up for rehoming. a disaster waiting to happen imo. Also if a dog is not coping with rescue and is unlikely to find a home surely putting it to sleep is kinder?
With regards to the romanian dogs and other european dogs I think that is a bad idea. We are just waiting for the introduction of various parasites etc. Atleast between Ireland and the UK the disease status is the same.
oh and dg £150 does seem alot my vets charge about €90 i think!
 
Im not sure there would be profit made from the actual rehome if they do indeed neuter and vaccinated and flea and worm, but I do however believe they will rake in a fortune in "donation" as its the type of cause that can for want of a better work "suck in" the more ignorant but but animal adoring public who maybe cannot help physically but can monetarily. I would also think as it's becoming quite fashionable to "adopt a dog from another country" that people adopting may pay the fees upfront from them or they have sponsors, either way im sure they will indeed be financially secure in the cause, a little like the MT rescue mention in the other post, I would imagine the donations they get in will be staggering.


Also to add I really do hope these people that bring these dogs her have kenneling facilities to take these dogs back as I can see them swarming the pounds and local rescues when the new "over excitable" and inexperienced owners need to discard/give them up.
 
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cinnamontoast said:
I think it's madness to transport dogs from another country to rehome here when there are dogs here waiting and we are overflowing with dogs in need. I was frankly appalled to see the Romanian dogs being imported recently. Gobsmacking.
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I completely agree with this.
 
Not all rescue organisations spay or neuter, they get the new owners to do it. And some dogs that get homed from rescues are too young anyway. On my last car journey over (a couple of days ago) there was a white lorry with 50 dogs on (in cages inside the lorry) coming over to the UK Thats an awful lot of dogs!.
 
By the time any rescue has transported/neutered and vaxed a dog a £200 adoption fee is a loss. Why anyone thinks rescues are making money astounds me,hard and heartbreaking work.
 
we often taken in dogs from ireland, they have a very short pound time for the vast majority and next to no breed rescues so the choice is pts a perfectly good dog or get them out and take the loss, and it is always a loss. Transport costs, food, insurance, veterinary fees (even at bare minimum you need to do a check, flea tick and jabs) often the dogs need assessing they can't just go straight into a home although the odd one or two do and that means a kennelling fee plus behavioural fees. The costs soon mount up.

Sad fact but if rescues here didn't take them these dogs would all be pts... its worth the effort.
 
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