response to yesterdays huge thread...

[M_G]

Paddy Monty posted a very touching story yesterday about his experieince with his much loved loan mare and the very hard decision he had to make for her.

I would like to tell my story which I also keep to myself (due to my total shame that I allowed it to happen as sadly I did not have the moral fibre to do as many of you have done and the OP of this thread has done).

I bought Challenger basically because I felt sorry for him, he was a wormy, skinny TB who was up for sale as his current owner could no longer afford him, I realise now I was a mug of the highest order.

Sadly it was the age old story of a horse being kept in bad condition to keep it well behaved, as Chal put on weight, muscle and condition the real story of his behavoral issues came out, his behavior of choice under saddle was to vertically rear and if that did not work spin and bolt. His behaviour on the ground was highly unpredictable and it got to the stage where the yard staff with the exception of the YO who had 20 years experience of training Trotters would refuse to go near him.

On the day the YO opened his stable to muck out and he turned and tried to double barrell him he finally said no more. He could not be kept with other horses as he was fiercely territorial and needed individual turnout, if you could get him out as it normally involved vertical rears and trying to bolt away from you in hand.

We had every check known to man, vet, teeth, back, physio, saddler, more professionals than I can name from my YO to a professional Dressage rider, to the local western trainer, all tried and all pronunced him totally unpredictable could be 100% fine then flip totally.

I meanwhile had some form of blind faith (or blind arrogance) and insisted on pushing on until the day he flat out panic bolted with me and I woke up with a nice man from the ambulance service kneeling next to me, a broken shoulder, fractured hip, broken knee, smashed ankle and a head injury that left me blind in one eye for a month.

At this point my Husband said "enough now". I had long discussions with my YO, vet and some of the people who had been involved with him and we all came to the decision to PTS was his best option. I then told people what we were intending and one kindly soul found someone who would take him on to "give him one last chance" the lady in question was an experienced horsewoman who was convinced that she could turn him around.

It is to my total shame that I allowed him to go to her, I can not explain why maybe I did not want the guilt of having this very beautiful and occasionally loving horse PTS, maybe my confidence had been knocked to the extent that I thought I was useless and my judgement and that of many others was floored, maybe I secretly hoped there would be a fairytale ending for him...god alone knows. But she bought him for a nominal price and off he went for his glorious last chance. Me I was free of the worry and started to work on healing my broken bones and gathering together my shattered confidence.

As for Challenger? Three weeks later he reared vertically in the school and fell over backwards along with the new owners Head Girl shattering her Pelvis and breaking both her legs, she will never get the chance to fulfill her ambitions of a competitive career. Chal was sold for his meat value and ended his days in an abbatoir in Belguim.

Do I feel guilty - 100% yes

Would I ever take the same course of action if I was ever faced with it again - No Way

Does the thought of what Chal went through in his final hours still haunt me 7 years later - yes every day!

Do I now wish I had had the balls to carry through my initial plan and end his days with a shot of sedalin, a bucket of feed and a painless injection....what do you think?

How very brave of you to post your story.

I too was had in a very similar way, beautiful horse that looked like a toast rack who was well behaved until he was fed & muscled up thankfully my father in law took the horse on & under vets advice had it shot before anyone was seriously injured..

 

[MurphysMinder]

Like many others I did not post on the other thread as I thought it was overdramatic, and none of that OPs business.
I am sorry you have had to cope with reading that after making the horrible, and correct, to put your pony to sleep.
It is interesting that others have now posted that they made a similar decision but had the sense not to post in advance on HHO, sad they felt they wouldn't get the support they needed. I can understand this, I posted a throw away line a while ago that I would have our old donkey pts if his companion (who has cushings was pts) as I felt the donk would be far too distressed left on his own. I wasn't even planning on doing it then, they are both still going at the moment, but a few people replied saying I shouldn't do it but give him a chance on his own to see how he coped. Okay so give him a week of being distressed and then pts, why?!

I hope things start to get easier for you OP, enjoy your old lad.

 

[annunziata]

RIP little pony your mummy did what was best for you. Exhausted you are a brave lady! I made the decision to put down my horse 2 years ago due to an injury which as a super hard decision so I know how you feel. Huge hugs and hope that you find some peace now.
xxx

 

[paulineh]

Unfortunately there is never a nasty ,mental or dangerous human or animal born into this world. It is only what we humans do to them in life.

Th problem is that these animals turn up with the wrong people.

A livery yard is never the right place for them to be. There will always be someone who thinks they know best and will always interfere.

I have had troubled horses in the past but having my own land then I have no one to tell me what to do,also there is never any pressure with livery costs or time.

I did not comment on the other thread as I felt there was far too much aggro going on.

There would have been someone out there who would have given the little pony a good kind calm home.

 

[Flame_]

Exhausted. Sorry you had to say goodbye to your horse friend and then read about it on here.

Sorry for mentioning the other horse, after reading the other livery's posts on her thread and your posts on this thread I know whose are more likely to be an accurate version of "the truth".

You have my respect and sympathy, and I'm sure that goes for the vast majority of this forum.

 

[cptrayes]

paulineh and siennamum words cannot express how I feel about your posts or I will be banned again. What horrible people you must be to think it was appropriate to write what you have as a response to a desperately sad owner writing at 4am of a sleepless night.


Exhausted I am so sorry that you had to post in the middle of the night like you did. You did the right thing by your pony and I applaud you for not allowing him to be passed from pillar to post while one person after another thought that they knew better than you how to cure him of his troubles.

 

[Jesstickle]

I briefly read the other thread and have just skimmed through this one. I haven't a huge issue with an animal being PTS to avoid it being passed from hand to hand and an uncertain future. Fundamentally though this has become neccessary because you failed to turn him into a safe, useful pony.
Whether you failed because he was always loopy or because you haven't enough experience is impossible to tell. My gut feel from reading what you have written above is that you didn't have the experiene to take on a nervous pony and didn't ask for help when you should have done.

I might have missed the part where you called in an RA or similar, but that pony sounds like he could have benefitted from one. None of the things you have described are unusual or worrying. Our current 'breaker' would leap 5 ft in the air and shoot to the back of the stable and quiver if you touched him anywhere but on his nearside on his neck/shoulder, my most recent youngster would still like to kick the farriers teeth in (I just trim him myself now), I simply wouldn't entertain getting on a horse alone, & trotting it round a school without a lunge rein for the first time, it's standad practice to get babies used to having the stirrups down and moving against their sides before getting on, of course they might panic feeling something there.

Sorry to sound harsh, it's all academic now, the pony has been pts.

Unfortunately there is never a nasty ,mental or dangerous human or animal born into this world. It is only what we humans do to them in life.

Th problem is that these animals turn up with the wrong people.

A livery yard is never the right place for them to be. There will always be someone who thinks they know best and will always interfere.

I have had troubled horses in the past but having my own land then I have no one to tell me what to do,also there is never any pressure with livery costs or time.

I did not comment on the other thread as I felt there was far too much aggro going on.

There would have been someone out there who would have given the little pony a good kind calm home.

O both of you, do SHUT UP . Don't you know when to keep your gobs shut?!


Exhausted, my thoughts go out to you. I hope you, and he, both find some peace.

 

[*hic*]

Unfortunately there is never a nasty ,mental or dangerous human or animal born into this world. It is only what we humans do t them in life.

I posted on the thread yesterday about my mare and her full brother who were kept at the same home until they were each four. She is a sweetheart, he is, apparently, a complete malicious git and always has been. He was just born that way. YOu only have to watch a hatch of chicks grow up to see that some of the young cockerels are kind and gentle and others are aggressive horrors - i use chickens as an example because there's little that most people do to interfere with their behaviour towards each other.



Exhausted, a tough few years, an even tougher decision. I wish you and the PBA the best for the future and congratulate you on trying to give the difficult pony a future which sadly didn't work out.

 

[touchstone]

Paulineh - I disagree, there are humans that appear to be born bad and regardless of upbringing and environment do heinous things.

Some animals can't be fixed, and if there are all these homes out there, then why are there so many homeless ponies?

I think that you've probably never come across a truly damaged horse, it isn't as simple as you are making out to care for them.

That being said I feel that this thread isn't the place to be disputing the rights and wrongs, the op deserves that at least.

 

[MissChaos]

paulineh and siennasmum, I really need a crystal ball at the moment.

May I please borrow one of yours?

 

[Chavhorse]

paulineh and siennamum words cannot express how I feel about your posts or I will be banned again. What horrible people you must be to think it was appropriate to write what you have as a response to a desperately sad owner writing at 4am of a sleepless night.


Exhausted I am so sorry that you had to post in the middle of the night like you did. You did the right thing by your pony and I applaud you for not allowing him to be passed from pillar to post while one person after another thought that they knew better than you how to cure him of his troubles.

We really do need a like button!

 

[Dirtymare]

Dear Exhausted.

I'm another who read the thread yesterday but didnt comment, as I know there are ALWAYS 2 sides to a story.
I just wanted to add to those wishing you well in the future, and send you my sympathies.

And just as an aside.......I would move from that yard where there are obviously too many busybodies wanting to judge your actions and motives and just because, you dont do what they would do with your horses, post slanderous threads on a major internet forum!
you would do well to move your old horse to a yard where you can both be left alone.

Good luck with whatever you do.

 

[Bramble74]

Exhausted - thinking of you at this time.

Another here who thinks you are very brave for coming and posting 'your side' but sorry that you felt the need to.

 

[Inthemud]

Exhausted,I am so sorry that you have had to make such a difficult, horrid, decision. You sound like you have been a highly responsible owner and have really "done right" by your boys.

 

[Chavhorse]

Deleted because frankly I do not think this is the thread to be disputing rights and wrongs. I think we all owe the OP that much at least.

 

[ribbons]

Chavhorse,
Your post was very brave. Thankyou for posting your experience. It should be kept here for reference to all who are either to inexperienced, to emotional or to mean (financially) to do the right thing. But mostly for the benefit of those clever clogs who think anything can be fixed and nothing should be pts to the point of serious injury to human and dreadful trauma for the horse.
I really feel for you, but don't beat yourself up any longer. Your story just maybe the one thing to make some people see sense at last.
Well done, it was very brave of you to share on this forum. You have my huge respect for what its worth. Everyone makes mistakes, it's those that will not learn from
them that cause problems.

 

[Wagtail]

Paddy Monty posted a very touching story yesterday about his experieince with his much loved loan mare and the very hard decision he had to make for her.

I would like to tell my story which I also keep to myself (due to my total shame that I allowed it to happen as sadly I did not have the moral fibre to do as many of you have done and the OP of this thread has done).

I bought Challenger basically because I felt sorry for him, he was a wormy, skinny TB who was up for sale as his current owner could no longer afford him, I realise now I was a mug of the highest order.

Sadly it was the age old story of a horse being kept in bad condition to keep it well behaved, as Chal put on weight, muscle and condition the real story of his behavoral issues came out, his behavior of choice under saddle was to vertically rear and if that did not work spin and bolt. His behaviour on the ground was highly unpredictable and it got to the stage where the yard staff with the exception of the YO who had 20 years experience of training Trotters would refuse to go near him.

On the day the YO opened his stable to muck out and he turned and tried to double barrell him he finally said no more. He could not be kept with other horses as he was fiercely territorial and needed individual turnout, if you could get him out as it normally involved vertical rears and trying to bolt away from you in hand.

We had every check known to man, vet, teeth, back, physio, saddler, more professionals than I can name from my YO to a professional Dressage rider, to the local western trainer, all tried and all pronunced him totally unpredictable could be 100% fine then flip totally.

I meanwhile had some form of blind faith (or blind arrogance) and insisted on pushing on until the day he flat out panic bolted with me and I woke up with a nice man from the ambulance service kneeling next to me, a broken shoulder, fractured hip, broken knee, smashed ankle and a head injury that left me blind in one eye for a month.

At this point my Husband said "enough now". I had long discussions with my YO, vet and some of the people who had been involved with him and we all came to the decision to PTS was his best option. I then told people what we were intending and one kindly soul found someone who would take him on to "give him one last chance" the lady in question was an experienced horsewoman who was convinced that she could turn him around.

It is to my total shame that I allowed him to go to her, I can not explain why maybe I did not want the guilt of having this very beautiful and occasionally loving horse PTS, maybe my confidence had been knocked to the extent that I thought I was useless and my judgement and that of many others was floored, maybe I secretly hoped there would be a fairytale ending for him...god alone knows. But she bought him for a nominal price and off he went for his glorious last chance. Me I was free of the worry and started to work on healing my broken bones and gathering together my shattered confidence.

As for Challenger? Three weeks later he reared vertically in the school and fell over backwards along with the new owners Head Girl shattering her Pelvis and breaking both her legs, she will never get the chance to fulfill her ambitions of a competitive career. Chal was sold for his meat value and ended his days in an abbatoir in Belguim.

Do I feel guilty - 100% yes

Would I ever take the same course of action if I was ever faced with it again - No Way

Does the thought of what Chal went through in his final hours still haunt me 7 years later - yes every day!

Do I now wish I had had the balls to carry through my initial plan and end his days with a shot of sedalin, a bucket of feed and a painless injection....what do you think?

Wow, Chavhorse, that is some story. With hindsight, obviously you did the wrong thing, but how many of us would have made the same decision in your shoes? Quite a few, and possibly me, I think, though after hearing what you have said I may think differently in future. Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[smokey]

paulineh and siennamum words cannot express how I feel about your posts or I will be banned again. What horrible people you must be to think it was appropriate to write what you have as a response to a desperately sad owner writing at 4am of a sleepless night.


Exhausted I am so sorry that you had to post in the middle of the night like you did. You did the right thing by your pony and I applaud you for not allowing him to be passed from pillar to post while one person after another thought that they knew better than you how to cure him of his troubles.

No need to add to this, couldn't put it better x

 

[touchstone]

Chavhorse,
Your post was very brave. Thankyou for posting your experience. It should be kept here for reference to all who are either to inexperienced, to emotional or to mean (financially) to do the right thing. But mostly for the benefit of those clever clogs who think anything can be fixed and nothing should be pts to the point of serious injury to human and dreadful trauma for the horse.
I really feel for you, but don't beat yourself up any longer. Your story just maybe the one thing to make some people see sense at last.
Well done, it was very brave of you to share on this forum. You have my huge respect for what its worth. Everyone makes mistakes, it's those that will not learn from
them that cause problems.

Well said ribbons.

 

[Donkey66]

Didn't read the original thread, the title alone was far too hysterical and childish. Sorry to hear that you have had to come on here and defend yourself.

My thoughts entirely.
If anyone had an issue with your decision the decent thing to do is a face to face discussion giving you an opportunity to explain the reasons. You can't please everyone all the time, but you do have to live with your conscience, so you must do what you think is right.

 

[joeanne]

There would have been someone out there who would have given the little pony a good kind calm home.

And that person MAY in time have passed him on, until he ended up in a place like Reading market, being bought by some dodgy dealer who would sell him on, and that home realising may also then sell him on/take him back to market......You seeing the pattern here???

Exhausted, you did the RIGHT thing by your lad, and you have my total and utter respect for doing what must have been one of the hardest things you have ever done.
There are ALWAYS people who think they know better or can do better than you, but fotunately you seem to have your head on straight and did what YOU knew to be the best thing for your horse.
I hope today you are finding things a bit easier.

 

[Dolcé]

OP, I too am sorry you had to make such a difficult decision in the public eye!

Your story, and the others posted on this thread, show why people should stay out of the decisions made by owners to PTS their horses and try to 'rescue' them.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I don't know what's wrong with me but I've cried reading this thread where as the other thread made me angry. I cried because so many of us have to make these hard decisions and it's not easy. People judging these decisions are so unfair. They think they know the whole story and sadly don't.

I personally don't deal with dangerous horses anymore. Not talking difficult or quirky but ones that are actually dangerous. Unless you have plenty of land, time, and money to just let some of these be pasture puffs, if possible, what is the point? I love my life with my horses who have never put a foot wrong. I'm lucky and I will do anything I can for them. If they start having issues it will be thoroughly investigated. If they can't live their life without fear or pain I will let them go.

What I can't do anymore is get hurt by unpredictable horses. Knowing it's probably man made does not mean it's my job to fix problems that can hurt me for life or worse. Yes I feel for these horses but it's not worth the risk. Sometimes you get to that stage after being lucky enough to walk away from bad situations. But most people never get that. They're quick to judge and run their mouths. They learn too late.

OP, I'm sorry about the loss of your horse. Sometimes it just doesn't work out despite our best intentions.

To all the others sharing. Same thing. It could not have been easy to make these decisions and them share.

Terri

 

[Nettle123]

Well done Exhausted for taking a brave and responsible decision and seeing it through. It is so easy to pass animals on with never a backward thought. You did the right thing and you should keep that thought foremost in your mind and be proud of yourself.

Your pony, your business. Sorry that this has been such a distressing time for you. Thank you for putting your side of the story.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

I have purchased every calmer, pressure halter & training aid that I thought may help, and although some were marginally helpful, nothing can change the fact that over a quarter of a tonne of incredibly instinctive & reactive pony will always win in a strength contest when it’s pumped full of adrenaline &/or scared!

I have never & would never ‘just let go’ of my horse in an inappropriate situation, he had only recently developed an issue with being turned out & would bolt for no apparent reason to his field gate. I used a slip rope to allow it to fall away if he did get loose for safety reasons, and as he had done it on a number of previous occasions, I did advise a fellow livery who was going to try to help catch him, to leave him, as he may well have run through her or kicked out, due to him being positioned in a corner at the time. I apologise if she misunderstood why I said this, but there wasn’t time to explain, as I was opening the field gate to get him back to where he was meant to be!

I would willingly have rehomed him as a companion if he was suitable for this, however he was incredibly insecure when left alone, both in the field & also in the stable if his field mate wasn’t in & would box walk regardless of other horses being present. Changes of field unsettled him massively even within the same yard, so no idea what he would have done going elsewhere?! Also with his farrier issues, I doubt many people would even consider that kind of financial outlay on something which essentially is a ‘field ornament’ harsh as it sounds.

He was an incredibly good doer & so needed muzzling to prevent laminitis, which in itself isn’t a massive problem, but obviously if he managed to take the muzzle off his being difficult to catch could quite quickly cause a welfare issue. For anyone interested, I did remove his muzzle overnight before he went & for 2 days in the previous week, but to be honest, I didn’t want to let him spend the last few days he had crippled & in pain or with colic from a sudden dietary change

It has been an incredibly difficult decision to have to make, but for him I feel it was his only real option, it was nothing to do with money or boyfriends (though if you find this mythical mystery man send him my way!) I have been made redundant twice since I’ve owned this pony, and worked 3 part time jobs to keep my boys. Money never came in to it.

Just because there is no physical damage doesn't mean an animal is in no pain from mental issues. His issues were deep rooted. Some can be turned around some can't. Sometimes we have to face up to that fact and put the animal’s welfare above our sentimental feelings.

Its past 4.30am, This is far too long already, and by no means anywhere near all of what we’ve been through, but I hope it goes a little way in explaining why I came to the decision I did.

My priority always has & always will be the welfare of my animals; I could not morally or reasonably have passed him on to an unknown future, where inevitably somewhere along the line his fate would have been the same, or perhaps worse. No animal deserves the level of abuse he received as a youngster, and I can rest easy knowing that he had several years happy & pain free, which is way more than some will ever know.

I’ve had a horrible day,

Let my boy rest in peace now.

Thanks

OP- I am very sorry for your loss. I didn't comment on the other thread as really, there are so many grey areas in every story of an online thread.

Please go about your day now worry and guilt free, you gave the pony many years of a happy, contended life. That is all that matters.

I'm so sorry for your loss Exhausted.

No one ever knows the true story by relying on gossip and 2nd and 3rd hand information.

You have my every sympathy, and I do hope you can put all this behind you eventually.


I will also post my story, in brief:


I bought my horse of a lifetime, after loosing my beautiful little mare.

Horse of a lifetime turned out (despite 5 stage vetting, and after about 9 months) to have numerous problems. Coffin joint disease, rotated pedal bones (toes up), spavins, and collateral ligament damage in his back legs. Despite being managed very carefully, I could not keep him sound. I also found myself in an increasingly precarious financial situation. So I made the decision to have him put down (however, not after spending months trying to find him a suitable home as a companion. I had also contacted his breeders, but they were not in a position to have him).

So, I had him put down. You may find it surprising to learn that I found this more distressing than when I lost my mother to cancer last year.

Whilst many on my yard were sympathetic. An awful lot were not. Anonymous notes calling me a murding b*tch, and snide comments etc. from people who thought they new why I had had him put down - but of course had no idea. I think about the horse every day, and am riddled with guilt about what I did. But it was not the wrong decision, and no one had the right to judge me.

My beautiful, beautiful boy.

Your boy was lovely AM.

I see nothing wrong with having a horse that has severe physical or mental problems PTS. NOONE should feel guilty about it.

Horsey people are the most compasionate, loving people I know when it comes to their animals. Obviously there are execeptions but these are few and far between in my experience. I think all we can hope for is to give each horse that is in our care as happy and stress/pain free life as possible whilst it's living and when that is no longer possible then sometimes PTS is the correct and ethical option.

Horses too are a MASSIVE financial commitment. Yes we shouldn't take one on if we feel we cannot fulfill that commitment however sometimes life bites you in the backside and if, for instance someone has a 22 YO that they've had their whole life, who's retired/semi retired etc and they all of a sudden get into real financial strife and can no longer afford to keep that horse, can't find a suitable home for it then I see no problem with having it PTS.

Sometimes it really is the kindest option and best for all involved.

 

[Fairynuff]

I briefly read the other thread and have just skimmed through this one. I haven't a huge issue with an animal being PTS to avoid it being passed from hand to hand and an uncertain future. Fundamentally though this has become neccessary because you failed to turn him into a safe, useful pony.
Whether you failed because he was always loopy or because you haven't enough experience is impossible to tell. My gut feel from reading what you have written above is that you didn't have the experiene to take on a nervous pony and didn't ask for help when you should have done.

I might have missed the part where you called in an RA or similar, but that pony sounds like he could have benefitted from one. None of the things you have described are unusual or worrying. Our current 'breaker' would leap 5 ft in the air and shoot to the back of the stable and quiver if you touched him anywhere but on his nearside on his neck/shoulder, my most recent youngster would still like to kick the farriers teeth in (I just trim him myself now), I simply wouldn't entertain getting on a horse alone, & trotting it round a school without a lunge rein for the first time, it's standad practice to get babies used to having the stirrups down and moving against their sides before getting on, of course they might panic feeling something there.

Sorry to sound harsh, it's all academic now, the pony has been pts.

so if its 'all academic now', why did you feel the need to post at all? No, you didn't sound 'harsh', you are harsh.

 

[Spyda]

(((((( Hugs OP))))))

Why do some people continually fail to realise that there are far worse things for an animal than being humanely and kindly PTS?

 

[Natch]

So many people on this thread being brave telling their difficult stories. I know what having to make that decision is like when the choice is a no brainer. I cannot imagine how it must be to have notes like "murdering b*tch" put up or a post like that one on an internet forum, when you have had to make the decision when the right answer isn't so obvious. Exhausted, chavhorse, amymay, paddymonty and anyone I might have missed, you have my utmost respect for sharing with us, and I'm so sorry any of you had to go through those things.

Exhausted, I hope the combination of posts will serve to remind everyone here that there are two sides to every story, but I am so sorry that you were put in the position to feel you needed to defend yourself. I hope you can see that the overwhelming majority are supporting you, and I hope you stay a while on HHO, you would be a real asset to our community.

 

[Fairynuff]

Unfortunately there is never a nasty ,mental or dangerous human or animal born into this world. It is only what we humans do to them in life.

Th problem is that these animals turn up with the wrong people.

A livery yard is never the right place for them to be. There will always be someone who thinks they know best and will always interfere.

I have had troubled horses in the past but having my own land then I have no one to tell me what to do,also there is never any pressure with livery costs or time.

I did not comment on the other thread as I felt there was far too much aggro going on.

There would have been someone out there who would have given the little pony a good kind calm home.

Utter twaddle. There are worse things than death! Stop being so naive Pauline.

 

[Lady La La]

And that person MAY in time have passed him on, until he ended up in a place like Reading market, being bought by some dodgy dealer who would sell him on, and that home realising may also then sell him on/take him back to market......You seeing the pattern here???

Exhausted, you did the RIGHT thing by your lad, and you have my total and utter respect for doing what must have been one of the hardest things you have ever done.
There are ALWAYS people who think they know better or can do better than you, but fotunately you seem to have your head on straight and did what YOU knew to be the best thing for your horse.
I hope today you are finding things a bit easier.

This.

Utter twaddle. There are worse things than death! Stop being so naive Pauline.

And this.

Hope everything becomes easier to deal with now OP.