classic_astra
Well-Known Member
maybe if alot more breeders were as responsible as simsar is we wouldnt even be having this discussion 
Responsible breeding??
- Thread starter Simsar
- Start date
Simsar
Well-Known Member
i can only form an opinion on what you have written here, it was Maefsen that mentioned the horse could be dangerous. Again if you read my posts i specifically said that if the horse was dangerous then PTS would be the best option. In fact after your last post it seems that i am agreeing with your decision?
True, but maybe the lesson is do not always assume the worst in people
I wouldn't say he was intentionally dangerous just that his brain would allow him to trip over his own feet! I have actually had in the past month one offer to buy him and one to 'take him off my hands' i turned both down for his benefit but it would have been easy to pass the 'problem' on.
True, but maybe the lesson is do not always assume the worst in people
I wouldn't say he was intentionally dangerous just that his brain would allow him to trip over his own feet! I have actually had in the past month one offer to buy him and one to 'take him off my hands' i turned both down for his benefit but it would have been easy to pass the 'problem' on.
Lgd
Well-Known Member
I'm a small scale private breeder and thankfully this something I've never had to do, although last years filly was PTS due to an illness which was irretrievable.
If I thought an animal had no future or would be a danger then yes I would PTS as I can't afford to keep a pasture ornament and I won't pass on my mistakes.
Performance, temperament, soundness and conformation. Both of the mares I have bred from competed to PSG/InterI level in dressage and did most of the GP work. My personal choice is that I will not breed from a mare unless she has made it to Medium level successfully. I had both mares graded as well, one with KWPN and the other with SHB-GB.
Performance, temperament, soundness and conformation, graded.
Sire of the first three I bred is International GP. Although do confess to taking a punt on a first season stallion last year as he had exactly the bloodlines I wanted and suited the mare conformationally. Risk has paid off as the foal is looking very good so far (he's only 5 days old) and is already sold. He's also not bred for dressage but for eventing which is not as weird as it sounds. The mare is very much eventing/jumping bred and has a huge pop, I just happened to do dressage with her.
Alec Swan
...
In truth, I'm not altogether sure what "Responsible breeding" is. I'll admit to rather "Flicking" through this thread, and perhaps if I'd read the whole thing I would have a better understanding.
By responsible, do we mean from the point of view of morality, as in "Should we", be breeding? We breed horses for others to buy, and to ride. We tailor our breeding plans (or we should), and we aim for a certain market place. I'm not trying to be picky, or to bring needles semantics into this, but I fail to understand the point of the word responsible, and attach it to breeding.
A responsible breeder is a different creature altogether, and it has very little to do with the choice of a mare or a stallion. As a responsible breeder, for instance, I put down an ET foal last year, rather than sell him on, knowing that I couldn't do so with a clear conscience. I have another foal from last year, who though beautifully bred, and expensive to arrive at, has I believe, a neurological problem, and dependent upon whether I'm right, or not, depends whether she leaves here alive, or not.
Obviously, I want the youngsters which I breed to go on and be a credit to me. I don't sell horses to idiots, hopefully, but short of that, when I've sold a youngster, what ever the buyer does with it, is for them to decide. Breeders have no copyright when it comes to the youngsters which they sell, and the best that we can hope for, is that we sell to responsible and caring owners.
If I've missed the main point, and gone off at a tangent, again, then say so, I wont mind!!
Simon, good to hear that you're still alive, and your mares sound well.
Alec.
By responsible, do we mean from the point of view of morality, as in "Should we", be breeding? We breed horses for others to buy, and to ride. We tailor our breeding plans (or we should), and we aim for a certain market place. I'm not trying to be picky, or to bring needles semantics into this, but I fail to understand the point of the word responsible, and attach it to breeding.
A responsible breeder is a different creature altogether, and it has very little to do with the choice of a mare or a stallion. As a responsible breeder, for instance, I put down an ET foal last year, rather than sell him on, knowing that I couldn't do so with a clear conscience. I have another foal from last year, who though beautifully bred, and expensive to arrive at, has I believe, a neurological problem, and dependent upon whether I'm right, or not, depends whether she leaves here alive, or not.
Obviously, I want the youngsters which I breed to go on and be a credit to me. I don't sell horses to idiots, hopefully, but short of that, when I've sold a youngster, what ever the buyer does with it, is for them to decide. Breeders have no copyright when it comes to the youngsters which they sell, and the best that we can hope for, is that we sell to responsible and caring owners.
If I've missed the main point, and gone off at a tangent, again, then say so, I wont mind!!
Simon, good to hear that you're still alive, and your mares sound well.
Alec.
s4sugar
Well-Known Member
The first foal I bred was PTS at 2 days old.
Carefully planned and very expensive but a dummy foal bred to be 17 hands having grand mal type seizures was not going to be a viable prospect or safe to be around.
Responsible breeding is breeding foals/horses with a future whether that be for competition or fun hacks.
Just turning out foals destined for meat is not responsible nor is breeding from unsound or unsafe stock. I have no problem with breeding for a riding club sort. I personally don't like Continental warmbloods and feel it is a pity the HIS never set up a part bred TB registry.
I think I have previously mentioned that I think stallion licencing should return?
Carefully planned and very expensive but a dummy foal bred to be 17 hands having grand mal type seizures was not going to be a viable prospect or safe to be around.
Responsible breeding is breeding foals/horses with a future whether that be for competition or fun hacks.
Just turning out foals destined for meat is not responsible nor is breeding from unsound or unsafe stock. I have no problem with breeding for a riding club sort. I personally don't like Continental warmbloods and feel it is a pity the HIS never set up a part bred TB registry.
I think I have previously mentioned that I think stallion licencing should return?
lme
Well-Known Member
Not sure whether it is irresponsible but I generally breed because I want a foal from a much loved mare. So far, I've bred a couple of foals from a TB x Irish mare who I've now owned for over 25 years. One (when she was 4) was a colt & I sold him to my then trainer who took him to Belgium where he got to PSG level. His sire was a small TB but he ended up @ 16:3 (far too big for me) & I prefer to ride mares. The second a chestnut mare by a SHGB stallion, who she had when she was 20) is only 15:3 but is (for us) the perfect family horse. She is clever, tough, lives out all year, jumps, moves well & loves to work. At some point, I will breed from her because I want to continue the line. A filly would be nice, but if she has a colt, one or other of my daughters will take him on & compete him / have fun with him, so he will have a job.
GinnieRedwings
Well-Known Member
I personally think there are very few "irresponsible" breeders around.
Excluding people who keep fields-full of permanently pregnant mares running with a stallion, in the name of "culture" because that is what they have always done, then I think most breeders, small and large, give a great deal of thought to what they breed - whether from a much-loved family horse or a top show-jumper.
At the risk of repeating myself, I entirely disagree with the BHS Responsible Breeding Campaign, inasmuch as I think they are missing the point entirely. I think they should be concentrating on responsible management of existing stock instead. In my view, Simsar's (very responsible, IMO) decision to PTS his colt falls in that category.
To me, that means responsible euthanasia of animals which are unlikely to fulfil a useful purpose, whether it be because of unsoundness, or temperament or whatever else. I will NEVER agree with the charities policy to keep all horses alive WHW & Redwings, up the road from me, are full to the brink but only have a handful of horses up for rehoming. In my view, anything that cannot be rehomed to the right person ought to be PTS. That goes for all the people who advertise their unsound or injured horses as companions or very light hacks if they were responsible owners, they would PTS rather than pass on the issue, because the potential for a welfare issue down the road (i.e. the horse being sold on as a riding horse to someone else by some unscrupulous intermediary) is so great cruel and irresponsible. Because realistically, who would chose to get an ex-racehorse (lets say for the sake of argument) as a companion??? Now, if they wish to keep them as a field ornament and look after them for the rest of their life that is entirely their (responsible) choice.
Now, I have spent most of my adult life rehabbing horses with issues, because I happen to have the inclination, the patience and the skill. Thats how I happen to have in my field a little ex-racing TB mare, who is the easiest little riding horse ever canters like a rocking horse with 9 year old girl rendered nervous by naughty pony! Should she have made it that far? IMO, no! She should have been PTS when shed outstayed her welcome with the racing industry. Why? Because it doesnt matter that in the right hands she had the potential to become a useful horse, the point is, in most peoples hands, she had even more potential to be a dangerous one! She was just lucky her owner recognised that fact and gave her to me. I am, unfortunately, stuck with her now, as it would be irresponsible of me to pass her on, unless I found the right person So far, no luck!
Excluding people who keep fields-full of permanently pregnant mares running with a stallion, in the name of "culture" because that is what they have always done, then I think most breeders, small and large, give a great deal of thought to what they breed - whether from a much-loved family horse or a top show-jumper.
At the risk of repeating myself, I entirely disagree with the BHS Responsible Breeding Campaign, inasmuch as I think they are missing the point entirely. I think they should be concentrating on responsible management of existing stock instead. In my view, Simsar's (very responsible, IMO) decision to PTS his colt falls in that category.
To me, that means responsible euthanasia of animals which are unlikely to fulfil a useful purpose, whether it be because of unsoundness, or temperament or whatever else. I will NEVER agree with the charities policy to keep all horses alive WHW & Redwings, up the road from me, are full to the brink but only have a handful of horses up for rehoming. In my view, anything that cannot be rehomed to the right person ought to be PTS. That goes for all the people who advertise their unsound or injured horses as companions or very light hacks if they were responsible owners, they would PTS rather than pass on the issue, because the potential for a welfare issue down the road (i.e. the horse being sold on as a riding horse to someone else by some unscrupulous intermediary) is so great cruel and irresponsible. Because realistically, who would chose to get an ex-racehorse (lets say for the sake of argument) as a companion??? Now, if they wish to keep them as a field ornament and look after them for the rest of their life that is entirely their (responsible) choice.
Now, I have spent most of my adult life rehabbing horses with issues, because I happen to have the inclination, the patience and the skill. Thats how I happen to have in my field a little ex-racing TB mare, who is the easiest little riding horse ever canters like a rocking horse with 9 year old girl rendered nervous by naughty pony! Should she have made it that far? IMO, no! She should have been PTS when shed outstayed her welcome with the racing industry. Why? Because it doesnt matter that in the right hands she had the potential to become a useful horse, the point is, in most peoples hands, she had even more potential to be a dangerous one! She was just lucky her owner recognised that fact and gave her to me. I am, unfortunately, stuck with her now, as it would be irresponsible of me to pass her on, unless I found the right person So far, no luck!
Sportznight
Well-Known Member
Ditto this 100%!! And I have done exactly that - PTS a MUCH loved mare.
angrovestud
Well-Known Member
Last year we had to PTS my foal he tore is carpal medial ligament and at three weeks old his leg was swinging it was harrowing, we stupidly tried to save him and I say stupidly because we should have pts there and then, we had fought so hard to get him in the first place, I should say my vet who is a family friend also knows are bloodline and we all decided to try, we thought he could at least have a home for life here at Angrove, if anything else happens like this I would pts as it became evident it was a lost cause his other leg compensated for the bad leg and at four months old his good leg started to become deformed,the bad leg was terrible he could walk trot and canter, but the bad leg was turned out very badly,he would have had a life of pain we could not put him throught that,the mare had to be PTS as well as she had cushing lami and had pedal bone rotation and she had enough, I could be like so many others and passed her on I hate this why do it if you cant face the end why should someone else want to.
GinnieRedwings
Well-Known Member
The other conclusion I have come to as a result of my work with young and troubled horses is that the great majority of problem horses are made so by insensitive and/or incompetent handling and training between the birth and the age of 5/6. I believe very few foals are born bad or with a bad temperament. Some are more sensitive, more wilful, more placid, more acceptant, closer to their flight instinct, whatever. With the right handling and training to suit their personality, whatever particular weakness that might make them less able to become good citizens as a riding horse can almost always be ironed out. I am of course talking about foals born without any neurological or other physical issues.
Because of that, a relatively inexperienced with youngsters novice breeder is more likely to succeed in making a good citizen of a foal from their sweet cob mare, than trying their hand at breeding a performance animal who will most probably be too much for them to handle from an early age. This is why I always cringe when I see people trying to discourage others to breed unless they are planning on breeding a top class performance animal
I could write an essay about this but I wont bore you The point is that perhaps it would be more responsible for breeders to keep stock until they are 5 year old good citizens? That we never ever sell a foal to anyone who is likely to treat them like their lovely baby and turn them into rude monsters? Or hammer them into the ground too young and make them chronically lame? Or fluff up their backing and make them unrideable?
Is there really an answer at breeder level? I think that managing the surplus of badly produced horses, accepting that due to the nature of the horse and the nature of the humans who handle them, there will always be an element of wastage, which sadly we must accept, and deal with in the only realistic way there is
Because of that, a relatively inexperienced with youngsters novice breeder is more likely to succeed in making a good citizen of a foal from their sweet cob mare, than trying their hand at breeding a performance animal who will most probably be too much for them to handle from an early age. This is why I always cringe when I see people trying to discourage others to breed unless they are planning on breeding a top class performance animal
I could write an essay about this but I wont bore you The point is that perhaps it would be more responsible for breeders to keep stock until they are 5 year old good citizens? That we never ever sell a foal to anyone who is likely to treat them like their lovely baby and turn them into rude monsters? Or hammer them into the ground too young and make them chronically lame? Or fluff up their backing and make them unrideable?
Is there really an answer at breeder level? I think that managing the surplus of badly produced horses, accepting that due to the nature of the horse and the nature of the humans who handle them, there will always be an element of wastage, which sadly we must accept, and deal with in the only realistic way there is
AMH
Well-Known Member
I bred a filly last year out of a friend's mare to be a riding horse for me in the future.
Unfortunately, and despite having been scanned at the appropriate time for pinching out, the mare twinned, carrying both full term and foaling two live ones (not an experience I EVER wish to repeat!). I spent much time, emotion and money trying to do the best for them both. Sadly we lost one, but the other, a filly, has just had her first birthday. She's growing on fine and is very sweet and friendly (if not a little 'yearlingish' just now!).
Because she was one of twins, I have always been very concerned about how she will develop. I have heard anectodal reports that they can 'look fine' and grow on OK for a time, but that they can start to have developmental problems later on. I have no experience of this, so am just keeping my fingers crossed.
Despite the fact that she is my horse for the future, if she begins to show developmental problems which could be too severe to overcome I will have to think long and hard about whether I keep going with her. I'm not someone who has a reputation to protect or someone looking for commercial viability, but merely someone looking to produce a horse which is right for me. I bred from that mare because I love her and I think she has quality (she is BWBS graded), and I am unlikely to have another opportunity to do so, since the mare owner's circumstances have changed. But if my filly goes 'wrong' then I will have a serious decision to make. It will break my heart and ruin my future plans, but if it's the best thing for both of us then so be it.
It is the responsibility of everyone who breeds, no matter for what purpose, to be objective about the prospects of the animal they breed and to ensure that, whether they keep the animal or sell it on, it has a useful life ahead of it.
Unfortunately, and despite having been scanned at the appropriate time for pinching out, the mare twinned, carrying both full term and foaling two live ones (not an experience I EVER wish to repeat!). I spent much time, emotion and money trying to do the best for them both. Sadly we lost one, but the other, a filly, has just had her first birthday. She's growing on fine and is very sweet and friendly (if not a little 'yearlingish' just now!).
Because she was one of twins, I have always been very concerned about how she will develop. I have heard anectodal reports that they can 'look fine' and grow on OK for a time, but that they can start to have developmental problems later on. I have no experience of this, so am just keeping my fingers crossed.
Despite the fact that she is my horse for the future, if she begins to show developmental problems which could be too severe to overcome I will have to think long and hard about whether I keep going with her. I'm not someone who has a reputation to protect or someone looking for commercial viability, but merely someone looking to produce a horse which is right for me. I bred from that mare because I love her and I think she has quality (she is BWBS graded), and I am unlikely to have another opportunity to do so, since the mare owner's circumstances have changed. But if my filly goes 'wrong' then I will have a serious decision to make. It will break my heart and ruin my future plans, but if it's the best thing for both of us then so be it.
It is the responsibility of everyone who breeds, no matter for what purpose, to be objective about the prospects of the animal they breed and to ensure that, whether they keep the animal or sell it on, it has a useful life ahead of it.
tabithakat64
Well-Known Member
For me responsible breeding is breeding from a mare with decent bloodlines, near perfect movement, temperment and conformation. Preferrably the mare would also havean excellent competition record and registered or graded with the apropriate breed society.
I would only breed to a provern stallion that meets the same criteria and compliments any minor weaknesses the mare may have.
Unfortunately, I've possibly been put put in a position where my mare who does meet the above criteria may be in foal to a rather lovely 13.2hh traditional colt. Not a choice I would have made.
However, I do not think I would be able to destroy the foal unless it has shockingly poor confirmation, is ill or dangerously agressive etc.
If it is a colt he will be gelded as soon as this is an option so that I will not be adding to the problem of the numerous sub-standard stallions I see being offered for stud or being bred from these days.
I'm rather hoping that I will end up with a foal who can become a useful riding horse at the very least.
I would only breed to a provern stallion that meets the same criteria and compliments any minor weaknesses the mare may have.
Unfortunately, I've possibly been put put in a position where my mare who does meet the above criteria may be in foal to a rather lovely 13.2hh traditional colt. Not a choice I would have made.
However, I do not think I would be able to destroy the foal unless it has shockingly poor confirmation, is ill or dangerously agressive etc.
If it is a colt he will be gelded as soon as this is an option so that I will not be adding to the problem of the numerous sub-standard stallions I see being offered for stud or being bred from these days.
I'm rather hoping that I will end up with a foal who can become a useful riding horse at the very least.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
tabithakat64
Well-Known Member
Alice, I was not calling anyone else an irresponsible breeder. I was simply expressing my own opinions on the subject and I am certainly not an expert on any level.
I have no issues at all with someone wanting to breed a nice RC allrounder, a quality traditional or native as long as they are bred sensibly with a job in mind. I still believe that these should have good conformation, temperament, bloodlines etc and as I said also ideally be registered/graded and have a competition record at a suitable level.
What I do disagree with is breeding from poor stock to make a fast buck.
I have no issues at all with someone wanting to breed a nice RC allrounder, a quality traditional or native as long as they are bred sensibly with a job in mind. I still believe that these should have good conformation, temperament, bloodlines etc and as I said also ideally be registered/graded and have a competition record at a suitable level.
What I do disagree with is breeding from poor stock to make a fast buck.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
My mare was reasonable looking and correct, but no world beater. I bred from her because I fancied having a foal to play with! I went to a stallion that stamps his stock and is of an excellent temperament, he isn't graded but to me that didn't matter, I would not have gone to a warmblood and IMO most graded horses are warmbloods (I accept that may be wrong, but its my assumption).
Also, a graded stallion would not have made a foal from my ungraded mare any better or more sellable (again, IMO).
So to me, the requirements for both mare and stallion are temperament, temperament, conformation and temperament! No point me, as a hobby horse owner, having a beautiful horse I can't ride!
Also, a graded stallion would not have made a foal from my ungraded mare any better or more sellable (again, IMO).
So to me, the requirements for both mare and stallion are temperament, temperament, conformation and temperament! No point me, as a hobby horse owner, having a beautiful horse I can't ride!
magic104
Well-Known Member
I am sorry but I just dont agree with "Because of that, a relatively inexperienced with youngsters novice breeder is more likely to succeed in making a good citizen of a foal from their sweet cob mare, than trying their hand at breeding a performance animal who will most probably be too much for them to handle from an early age." The Characteristic's you describe "Some are more sensitive, more wilful, more placid, more acceptant, closer to their flight instinct, whatever. With the right handling and training to suit their personality, whatever particular weakness that might make them less able to become good citizens as a riding horse can almost always be ironed out." happen to be the same regardless whether the dam be a performance mare or a sweet cob mare. Inappropriate handling will ruin most foals/youngsters even those with the potential to have a more forgiving nature. You can see a vast difference in horses natures from TB's through to native ponies of the same breed. Also just because someone has been around adult horses does not mean they have the temperment to take on a youngster. Sorry if this offends people, but I can assure you there are performance bred horses that are giving lots of fun to plenty of novices.
AMH
Well-Known Member
But there are also some 'performance horses' which are simply not suitable for amateur riders, because of their lack of rideability
AMH
Well-Known Member
But there are also some 'performance horses' which are simply not suitable for amateur riders, because of their lack of rideability.
If rideability and trainability were not an issue in breeding, they wouldn't be traits specifically measured by stud books like the Hanoverian Verband.
If someone has a nice mare which they love and wish to breed from FOR THEMSELVES there is no reason why they shouldn't. I consider that to be responsible breeding, as long as the mare has been assessed for obvious, potentially catastrophic, conformational or breeding defects.
If rideability and trainability were not an issue in breeding, they wouldn't be traits specifically measured by stud books like the Hanoverian Verband.
If someone has a nice mare which they love and wish to breed from FOR THEMSELVES there is no reason why they shouldn't. I consider that to be responsible breeding, as long as the mare has been assessed for obvious, potentially catastrophic, conformational or breeding defects.
jamesmead
Well-Known Member
On the other hand, the most cunning, wilful and - well, feral, opportunistic horses I personally have ever met have ALL been native or cob types... The TBs of my acquaintance have always been relatively civilised and decent...
edited to say that I'm not suggesting that every native or cob is like this; but a cob isn't necessarily safer than a thoroughbred, especially if that TB is already worldly-wise from the racecourse.
edited to say that I'm not suggesting that every native or cob is like this; but a cob isn't necessarily safer than a thoroughbred, especially if that TB is already worldly-wise from the racecourse.
Last edited:
Sportznight
Well-Known Member
So true! Every case should be treated on an individual basis.
E.G. my sister has a very pretty (pretty enough to have been a hack) little ex-racehorse. He's quirky, but safe, for my VERY novice sister. She also has an EXTREMELY opinionated pony that is of Hafflinger/cob type. And she also has an absolute saint of a Shetland pony for the kids. You just can't generalise on breeds/types.
ETA - the saint of a Shetland is only a 6yo and he's been saintly since he was 2 and a half.
Last edited:
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
Have a look at the thread titled 'For all the coblet lovers' posted today.
Hard to say who dam and sire are, hard to say which camp this super chap falls into, responsible or irresponsible breeding.......but if he is in the same dressage class as the fancy warmblood, I just reckon the warmblood could be the one with the blue rosette.
Lovely video, well worth watching.
Hard to say who dam and sire are, hard to say which camp this super chap falls into, responsible or irresponsible breeding.......but if he is in the same dressage class as the fancy warmblood, I just reckon the warmblood could be the one with the blue rosette.
Lovely video, well worth watching.
TheresaW
Well-Known Member
I like to think I was responsible when I chose to breed from my mare. I wanted to breed for myself, something that I could bring on and just go out and have fun on. Doll has a fab temperament and had never been lame in the 8 years I'd owned her. During the time we were decision making, she injured herself and ended up having 9 months off. Many people suggested putting her in foal then as I was unable to ride her, but we made sure she came right again first and got her back to fully fit again. We took advice from someone that knew dolly and was a knowledgeable breeder about which stallion would best suit what I wanted to breed. Unfortunately, after a textbook pregnancy, after twinning and having one successfully pinched, the foal was stillborn, and after she lost the 2nd early on in the pregnancy, I didn't have the heart to try again. We are just back to having fun now.
Kallibear
Well-Known Member
Responsible breeding= producing something easily marketable with a good, sound, healthy future ahead of it. A horse most people would WANT to own.
That does NOT include scabby cob mares being bred to anything because they can, in the hope of making £100. It DOES include much loved family pets with decent conformation and good temperament producing a nice foal who will be brought up properly and go on to do similar as it's mother. Even if it's just happy hacking.
The vast majority of riders in the UK do not want big talented power houses they can't ride the trot of, or sit the jump. Well bred competition horses (the like that many seem to approve of being bred) are TOO MUCH for most riders. They want quiet, kind sensible everyday dobbins with a decent enough conformation to remain sound in hard work. Couldn't care less about it's bloodlines as long as it does the job.
Irresponsible breeding is mass producing foals with little though to their future other than 'sell it or send to market'. Or breeding a much loved but difficult mare in the hope of getting something nicer and more ridable. If you would not be satisfied with an exact relica foal, don't breed it. Yes, always try to improve (bit bigger, bit smaller, slightly better set neck etc) but if you'd be disappointed if the foal does turn out exactly the same (temperament/conformation etc) don't breed it!
I have a nice mare i'm (kind of, in future) thinking about breeding but would no doubt be frowned upon by 'bloodline breeders'. Nice looking bigger (15.2) HW cob mare. Lovely movement, kind, safe, sensible and loves to work. Nice conformation. Totally sound and healthy at 18. And not a scooby on her breeding lines.
I would love something a little bigger and lighter (so would put her to a hunter type) but would be thrill if I just got an exact replica. And would easily have a queue of people to buy it as her type is desirable.
Is that more or less responsible that breeding multiple 'well bred' sport horse foals every year in hope of a super star?
That does NOT include scabby cob mares being bred to anything because they can, in the hope of making £100. It DOES include much loved family pets with decent conformation and good temperament producing a nice foal who will be brought up properly and go on to do similar as it's mother. Even if it's just happy hacking.
The vast majority of riders in the UK do not want big talented power houses they can't ride the trot of, or sit the jump. Well bred competition horses (the like that many seem to approve of being bred) are TOO MUCH for most riders. They want quiet, kind sensible everyday dobbins with a decent enough conformation to remain sound in hard work. Couldn't care less about it's bloodlines as long as it does the job.
Irresponsible breeding is mass producing foals with little though to their future other than 'sell it or send to market'. Or breeding a much loved but difficult mare in the hope of getting something nicer and more ridable. If you would not be satisfied with an exact relica foal, don't breed it. Yes, always try to improve (bit bigger, bit smaller, slightly better set neck etc) but if you'd be disappointed if the foal does turn out exactly the same (temperament/conformation etc) don't breed it!
I have a nice mare i'm (kind of, in future) thinking about breeding but would no doubt be frowned upon by 'bloodline breeders'. Nice looking bigger (15.2) HW cob mare. Lovely movement, kind, safe, sensible and loves to work. Nice conformation. Totally sound and healthy at 18. And not a scooby on her breeding lines.
I would love something a little bigger and lighter (so would put her to a hunter type) but would be thrill if I just got an exact replica. And would easily have a queue of people to buy it as her type is desirable.
Is that more or less responsible that breeding multiple 'well bred' sport horse foals every year in hope of a super star?
Rollin
Well-Known Member
I breed rare breeds. This year I have not bred any foals as I do not have space to keep any more. I don't mind running them till 3 yo my motivation is not to make money but to do my bit for the breed.
Our first foal a Shagya colt was one of only 3 approved for the stud book last year out of 13 presented, we have a Shagya and a CB filly both of whom I am pleased with. For us it is quality not quantity.
We plan two more foals for next year.
Our first foal a Shagya colt was one of only 3 approved for the stud book last year out of 13 presented, we have a Shagya and a CB filly both of whom I am pleased with. For us it is quality not quantity.
We plan two more foals for next year.
magic104
Well-Known Member
If you don't know the blood lines how do you replicate the good ones? If you dont know the blood lines how do you weed out hereditary issues? There is nothing wrong with a cob, just as there is nothing wrong with a TB or sportshorse or any horse/pony fit for a job. Do you suppose all these people putting so much emphasis on temperment & conformation are doing it because they have nothing better to do. There is no perfect horse as such but you don't have to breed from one that has more then 3 conformation weaknesses in the hope the stallion is going to iron them all out. Though most of us would appreciate some of the best sports horses lack decent conformation, but they have the want to do the job. It does mean though that they have to be managed to help them stay sound. I have said before breeding for yourself is not an excuse to breed from any old mare to any old stallion. Most of the horses I see are bog standard with no special breeding & they come with all sorts of problems. The owners are no better, half the time they are scared of their own horses & these are the ones buying youngsters bred by someone who thought they would like to breed a replacement from their mare. Or by the stud who runs their stallion/s out with a group of mares they have picked up cheap. There are plenty of decent bog standard animals I do not see a shortage of them.
Responsible breeding is also being conscious about what you want to acheive. Breeding something that can find a home because it is wanted. From what I can gauge most posters are of the opinion that every mare owner has the right to breed, unless it has temperment or conformation issues. Well temperment can be man made, & what is considered as poor conformation? I ask because even one with a number of weaknesses is still considered good enough. There is nothing wrong in wanting to know the blood lines of your horse, it does not an equine snob make you. Hope that's good enough English for yer!
Responsible breeding is also being conscious about what you want to acheive. Breeding something that can find a home because it is wanted. From what I can gauge most posters are of the opinion that every mare owner has the right to breed, unless it has temperment or conformation issues. Well temperment can be man made, & what is considered as poor conformation? I ask because even one with a number of weaknesses is still considered good enough. There is nothing wrong in wanting to know the blood lines of your horse, it does not an equine snob make you. Hope that's good enough English for yer!
perlino
Member
Good enough English magic? Are you having a laugh? *temperament *don't *cheaply *achieve - i suggest you stop being such a bitch and go out and buy yourself some spell checking software.
cloppy
Well-Known Member
Going slightly off topic. When I did my stage 4 exam many moons ago a horse was brought out of the stable for us to assess conformation. This horse was terrible with a temperament to match. It was only after we had pulled it apart that we were told who he was - a badminton winner who had been reserve horse at the olympics among other successess. Although not a breeding horse he lacked most of the qualitiies we "think" of today as acceptable in a competition horse.
magic104
Well-Known Member
And I suggest to stick to the topic in hand rather then dragging it down the personal route again. Over 1/2 the posts contain bad spelling, grammer & incorrect terms, ie out of (Stallion) when it should be out of mare by stallion. Confirmation instead of conformation the list goes on. You don't see me being such a bitch that I pick everyone up on it, I have stuck to the topic in hand. Shame those like yourself chose not to do the same.
rach81
Active Member
As someone eagerly anticipating the arrival of my first homebred foal I have found this thread fascinating. My mare is 16:1hh bay and 15 years old ( can't work out how to do the photo thing) she's has double ear at be novice , novice dressage and riding clubbed. I bought her to hunt a job she does exceptionally well and have been offered silly money for her . The stallion she went to also hunts with us , and compliments her beautifully. The plan is the coal will replace mum in the hunting field. While I know my made is not perfect (the person who bred her had tried to buy her back as her conformation is almost perfect) she's never been lame goes first or last (would rather be up front like her rider but if someone having trouble will let me try to help them out) only real fault is her feet but with a good farrier and regular trimming they are good ( surely a good farrier is someone a responsible horse owner should have regardless of whether the horse is perfect in everyway or not) . When mulling over the decision of whether to breed from her the only negative comment I got was "but what will you hunt next season?" . So hopefully I will shortly have a new arrival and will try my hardest to bring him/her up to follow in mums footsteps . One the other hand I have a lovely shireXtb who after 12 months of a few highs and some major lows (she's 5) is turning out to be a very special horse. I was told not to buy this mare as it throws a leg it's weak behind , which to be honest as a 3 year old she was . after much schooling she is has a very lovely big rounded bottom and gives the most amazing feeling when riding her . Yes she still throws a leg occasionally eat the end of a 4 hour fun ride. But she has a huge heart and tries her hardest even when shes so tired she's practi ally on her knees .
Interestingly the person who told me not to buy my youngster is also my boss! Who went off to ireland and brought a couple of horses back , one who has the most horrendous conformation I've ever seen and at 7 comes out of his stable like a 27 year old . This horse is such a sweetheart and I absolutely adore him ( sadly he's seen as a commodity to them) I can with much hard work keep this horse sound but I know he willbe sold on very soon and passed from pillar to post .when I asked her a few questions about him she admitted shed not even asked to see him trotted up and that she knows nothing about conformation but likes pretty horses!. I hope I have been responsible in breeding from my mare and if there is the slightest chance there is something mentally wrong with the foal it will be PTs ( have been on the receiving end of mentally unstable it ended with a tree and an air ambulance)
I guess I just wanted to say that I applaud the OP for being very honest and I'm sure some people will be horrified that he had a cute baby horse PTS but I think Its about time people started accepting more responsibility and thinking for the animals point of view. Something as a farmers wife I try to do ( and I'm trying to implement my fussiness into breeding of cows and sheep too- I even think I'm going to head over to the farmers weekly forum and start this debate over there)
Apologies to anyone who has actually read this ramble I am slightly over tired and wish my mare would just get on with it
Interestingly the person who told me not to buy my youngster is also my boss! Who went off to ireland and brought a couple of horses back , one who has the most horrendous conformation I've ever seen and at 7 comes out of his stable like a 27 year old . This horse is such a sweetheart and I absolutely adore him ( sadly he's seen as a commodity to them) I can with much hard work keep this horse sound but I know he willbe sold on very soon and passed from pillar to post .when I asked her a few questions about him she admitted shed not even asked to see him trotted up and that she knows nothing about conformation but likes pretty horses!. I hope I have been responsible in breeding from my mare and if there is the slightest chance there is something mentally wrong with the foal it will be PTs ( have been on the receiving end of mentally unstable it ended with a tree and an air ambulance)
I guess I just wanted to say that I applaud the OP for being very honest and I'm sure some people will be horrified that he had a cute baby horse PTS but I think Its about time people started accepting more responsibility and thinking for the animals point of view. Something as a farmers wife I try to do ( and I'm trying to implement my fussiness into breeding of cows and sheep too- I even think I'm going to head over to the farmers weekly forum and start this debate over there)
Apologies to anyone who has actually read this ramble I am slightly over tired and wish my mare would just get on with it
GinnieRedwings
Well-Known Member
Magic, don't you mean "grammar"? Also, could you please spell "tolerance" for me?
Rach, good luck and I hope your baby is everything you've hoped for. Trust me, it's worth the wait and the sleepless nights x
Rach, good luck and I hope your baby is everything you've hoped for. Trust me, it's worth the wait and the sleepless nights x