RESTARTING an older horse? Advice needed please.

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HappyHooves

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I have an 11 year old cob who was probably never really started, but just broken to harness. He started life with travellers and was sold at two. He was then hardly used and did very little driven work, being described as very green when 9 yrs old. He was never a confident ride and would plant when he saw, heard or smelled something unusual. He is strong and the default setting is panic, turn and run! He isn't nasty but he just doesn't listen to anything the rider says so there is no calming him. I have never had a horse like him and we aren't getting on well, as my nerves are not good at the best of times! He was sent to a person I trusted for schooling but came back the same as ever, but with ulcers! After much thought I have tried Parelli/ Natural Horsemanship groundwork as I felt he had an issue with his attitude to people, not just a failure to learn. The opinion of the 'teacher' is much as mine - he will try to do what is asked of him but if he doesn't understand or cannot manage the movement then he quickly gets stressed and panics. But there have been improvements. I would like to send him to be restarted using natural methods - non aggressive, kind, gentle, compassionate - call it NH, enlightened or Parelli or whatever, I don't care! Whilst the horse needs a firm, confident person to teach him he does not respond well to strong, forceful or aggressive people.
I have been recommended to send him to the J-R foundation Station, near Devizes, for restarting ( 3* parelli) but this is such a long haul from home and of course the transport will cost a bomb. Can anyone recommend something similar closer to East Anglia?

Whilst I have mixed feelings about Parelli following some of the recent demos, so far the horse has responded to the techniques of the games; I don't endorse any particular method, I just want a better life for my horse, and me!
 
Can't answer about restarting sorry. However I did a workshop with Ben Hart recently and I really liked his approach. He assesses how the horse learns and responds to new and scary things and then works with the horse. We were using my friends horses to practice on one of which sounds like you describe yours. When faced with something strange he says no I can't but if you push he will say ok I'll try it but BH said that the risk in this is that when he can't cope he explodes.
Bens theory is that the horse has to learn how to deal with the new scary things and build his own confidence. I got corrected when I lead him to the scary props instead of letting him approach in his own time. Yours sounds like you need to do some de spooking work in hand to teach him not to spin and run. Good luck with it and I'm sure your relationship will improve once he starts to trust you more.
 
It will take many years of riding this horse on a daily baiss to sort this horse out and his age will not help. You stated that you are nervous and quite honestly and without wishing to upset you I would suggest that you are not the right partnership.
 
How is he riding out in company? Can you enlist the help of a good friend with a steady horse and just hack out lots to build his confidence? Works wonders for lots of horses.
 
Have u bought my mare three years ago?

Did the same wanted a project and boy did u get one, she's 11 now. Was driven then three foals then I got her at auction.

All I can say was richard maxwell is my hero, samba knew every trick in the book to get out of things simple as grooming mane and head = rear. Leading out of field = plant. Asked her to step up on the kerb = rear

But three years down the line we are hunting, jumped a ditch today on a hack sorry had to share over the moon that missus I'm scared of a puddle jumped a water filled ditch, jumping 3ft and having the best fun in the World. I couldn't part with her now.


But it's hard work, it's not a blank slate, a lot of undoing and teaching them that just because XYZ happened before does t mean it will happen again.

I swear by richard maxwells pressure halter, no pans hung about, just simple pressure and release in a very clear manner. Dually did sod all for Samba. And she did react to her halter first ( react = rear) but she soon learnt that she can rear all she wants it gets her nowhere and now I can clip, load, groom all over, fly spray simple things that she reacted to, she has learnt through pressure and release that she doesn't need to explode at me. This on the ground then transferred to ridden work and now she is schooling nicely and is very keen.

I don't know what happened to her, she was prob just handled rough, but I'm not her past amd done those things therefore I have to show her how to behave. Worse you can do is take a softly there there approach because previously miss treated. 500kg + misbehaving is a lot to handle. So when samba reared pressure on halter applied she normally came back down and flew backwards, stood my ground keeping pressure on. Eventually she learnt no matter how much she flew those front feet about I kept on that pressure, soon as she stopped, relaxed/ came forward Ina relaxed manner, rewarded with big scratch etc. Took guts, patience, a lot of body language reading as timing crucial and obviously richard maxwell but he was worth every penny.


Where are you? I know someone very good with nervous explosive types in West Sussex or strongly urge email maxwell.

Would I do it again, NO. Learnt loads but it's been a long journey I only want to do once.
 
I bought my horse a year ago and to my horror when he saw something he didn't like, he would rear up, spin round and do one! After not having a horse in 19 years, this really knocked my confidence and frightened me. Especially as being an anglo arab he is lightening quick. I knew when I bought him that he was a green horse however did not realise to what extent and totally over estimated my riding abilities. After not making much progress I sent him away for a week for some road work training and an honest opinion. I also moved yards to where They are predominantly happy hackers and had a riding lesson every week. It has made such a difference to both our confidences. He has gained a lot of confidence from being ridden with other horses and I have gained a lot of confidence from the company and experience of other riders ( and being reminded to keep breathing). Whilst I agree that a nervous horse and nervous rider is not the best of combinations, it is possible, so don't give up hope. I hope this helps.
 
teabiscuit said:
How is he riding out in company? Can you enlist the help of a good friend with a steady horse and just hack out lots to build his confidence? Works wonders for lots of horses.
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He's fine in company though I wouldn't know what he would do if, for example, his companion took off. If the other horse is OK then so is he. Once back on his own he is a very different horse. Sadly there aren't many riders about with whom I could ride out and I have always enjoyed hacking alone before.

TrasaM - the Ben Hart info sounds good ( I'll google him) and it describes the way my horse is; definitely a case of lack of confidence in his own abilities. He is strangely good at coping with spooky things when at home - walking over tarps, straddling a bit of bouncy piping, arches with flowing streamers attached. But if he is out alone and something bothers him ( and its often something that I can't see) he just freezes. I have sat it out for half an hour or more, not letting him turn and flee, but still can't make him go on - kindness, cajoling or force have no effect at all. Its like he is in another world. That's what I find hardest to cope with as I have ridden for decades and never been unable to calm a horse or get it to listen to me.
Tofffee44 and JCW you deserve a medal! If mine was a rearer he would have to find himself a new home! Luckily we don't have rearing to resolve, just fear. I have thought about Richard Maxwell but most of his work is done on a visiting basis and I feel residential would be better for the horse. What did you do? Its so nice to hear that both these horses are now happy and having a useful and enjoyable life. That's exactly what I want for my lad.
 
OrangePepper said:
It will take many years of riding this horse on a daily baiss to sort this horse out and his age will not help. You stated that you are nervous and quite honestly and without wishing to upset you I would suggest that you are not the right partnership.
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Couldn't have said it better myself!
Please be cautious op. IME there's nothing more unpredictable than a nervous cob!
 
I had a similar experience with my 16 year old idx. I was nervous and he was picking up on it.
I turned him out and gave up trying to ride him. I brought him in every day groomed him , gave him a feed and turned him out again.
I spent a week or two tacking him up and resolving his tacking issues. When he was calm about the tacking up thing I spent a couple of weeks walking him in hand round the farm and getting him to stand and walk on . When that was comfortable I took him in the school and lunged him very unprofessionally , but getting him to listen to my voice . after a couple of weeks I got back on in the school. We eventually progressed to hacking out on our own. Taking baby steps with him built up my confidence gradually. Ive had him five years now and he is a doddle to do. He can stand in the field for weeks on end then quite happily go out for a hack. Im not the best of riders and I did originally over horse myself..however after many tears and dramas he turned out to be just what I wanted!
 
Although James from JRS, died Josh Steer is at JRS and would be good for you and your horse. I know it's expensive and a long way from you, but, you'd be getting some excellent help, and you would be given appropriate training yourself as well as the horse.
Remember, when you have the knowledge to deal with these problems, it's not so scary, even the really difficult ones come round.
 
Pale Rider said:
Although James from JRS, died Josh Steer is at JRS and would be good for you and your horse. I know it's expensive and a long way from you, but, you'd be getting some excellent help, and you would be given appropriate training yourself as well as the horse.
Remember, when you have the knowledge to deal with these problems, it's not so scary, even the really difficult ones come round.
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I think this sounds good, Its one thing to send him away to get trained but the same horse can behave very differently for different people. He might well be putty in the hands of someone more experienced ......Im pretty sure my horse would have been.
 
Agree with Orange pepper. Does this horse actually respect you or even consider you a 'leader' - sounds to me like a flighty horse, combined with a flighty owner (Sorry I dont mean to be harsh - but this is how the horse see's you probably)

Horse keeping/riding/care is supposed to be fun!

When was the last time you did somehting totally relaxed - knowing everything was going to be fine - not worrying about what time the double decker comes, or that man lawn mowing 3 fields away.

My mother is nervous - She struggled with a sharper horse than she wanted for 2 years - now we are swapping and she can find something sane and sensible - the relief on her has taken years off! (shes my mother I can say that right!?)

OP - think long and hard about your realistic goals - where do you want to be with this horse and by when - talk to the trainers and see if this is something actually achieveable -

or are they going to say 'well maybe' - and string you along for the money.
 
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