AmyMay
Situation normal
You do when they have rugs on!
Why would it need a rug on?
You do when they have rugs on!
Firstly its not an 'it'. Its my beloved horse.Why would it need a rug on?
Yes it is but its what she does. Its only during winter. They dont wear fly rugs just fly masks in the summer.that must be very time consuming for the retirement YO with 20 horses in a field twice a day.
People on this forum anyway. Constantly nit picking.Horses are generally a lot easier to deal with than people.
People on this forum anyway. Constantly nit picking.
Well, if people want to put horses somewhere that forbids them to catch their own horses up when they visit and bring them in for a groom or some one to one time then more fool them.
I'm not assuming.You do seem prone to assuming that.
I'm not assuming.
I'm actually waiting for Amymay and YCBM to explain why bringing in a horse from a retirement herd to groom or give a treat and have some one to one time with is any different from bringing a horse in from a herd environment on a livery yard to ride?
But as there is absolutely no difference they cannot answer my question. And questionning why horses have rugs on when they are not acclimitised to being out 24/7 much less when its minus 7 at night is a bit obvious.
I have never herd of equine retirement meaning horses are never handled by tgeir owners. I'd never contemplate such a place and neither would most people.
Paddy 555 i was on a livery yard with 30 geldings turned out into about 50 acres and owners were coming at all hours to get horses in for farrier/riding, etc. Never upset them. Honestly this forum cracks me up
Yes it is exactly the type of livery i want, tbh I couldn't care what anyone else thinks. My friends horse has been there years and he's happy being brought in and out, the herd don't give a stuff. They are used to it, some of them are in and out twice daily being fed.It's a totally different dynamic. Youngstock herds and retirement herds are not the same as a group of in work horses that are generally healthy, fit, and used to comings and goings, being stabled, turned out, worked - and with these groups there are often mare/gelding separations, age separations, horses that bond and need to be together all the time or kept separate.
With retirement herds, there's a reason each horse is retired, either through age, ill health or injury, and the more settled the herd is, and the fewer non-routine comings and goings there are, the better it is for the individual horses and the herd as a whole. And generally, being managed by one or two regular people (YO, staff etc) is far better for the stability of the group and their wellbeing. Certainly that stability is what I'd look for in a retirement livery, and it wouldn't mean not visiting my horse, it would mean knowing that he/she was settled and happy and I could come along and visit him/her in the herd setting and enjoy seeing them all in that environment.
I'm glad you seem to have found the type of livery you want for your horse.
Paddy 555 i was on a livery yard with 30 geldings turned out into about 50 acres and owners were coming at all hours to get horses in for farrier/riding, etc. Never upset them. Honestly this forum cracks me up
I'm not assuming.
I'm actually waiting for Amymay and YCBM to explain why bringing in a horse from a retirement herd to groom or give a treat and have some one to one time with is any different from bringing a horse in from a herd environment on a livery yard to ride?
But as there is absolutely no difference they cannot answer my question. And questionning why horses have rugs on when they are not acclimitised to being out 24/7 much less when its minus 7 at night is a bit obvious.
I have never herd of equine retirement meaning horses are never handled by tgeir owners. I'd never contemplate such a place and neither would most people.
Paddy 555 i was on a livery yard with 30 geldings turned out into about 50 acres and owners were coming at all hours to get horses in for farrier/riding, etc. Never upset them. Honestly this forum cracks me up
to me you are describing assisted livery which I would have thought was more expensive.
I understood retirement livery to be where your horse was turned out in a group, lived out with hay and was checked (feet trimmed, wormed etc ) and the herd may have a large barn to shelter or just natural shelter. Their owners basically handed them over to the retirement livery and would get updates on them and maybe visit a couple of times a year.
If you had say 20 horses in a field in a herd and 15 of those owners turned up very frequently several at once to take their horses out and groom them then there will be a lot of disruption to the settled herd. They are not going to be a settled herd in that case but simply 20 horses who happen to live in the same field no different really to horses in a normal livery yard who have the benefit of lots of TO.
I don't think it is more fool them but simply of choosing the service they require. If I was running a retirement livery I would expect to be allowed to get on with it without owners constantly moving horses around. Otherwise I would be running an assisted livery where I would expect horses to be constantly moved around and owners to be littering up the place
If a client wants their horse just turned out and basically left to enjoy life in an uninterrupted herd they may not be too happy to find the herd is constantly disrupted by horses coming and going.
I dont see why you cant have both.
If I was to retire a horse away from home, I would want large well draining fields, barn shelter and a nice settled herd and the horse's day to day needs to be fully met by the livery provider.
But when I did visit, I would want to bring horse into yard / tie outside field and check feet / weight / musculature /way moving etc. I'd want to take the horse away from the herd, give the horse a bit of TLC / massage / some carrots etc.
I'd also want fortnightly photo updates of horse without a rug so I can see how they are doing (and would be very happy to pay for this).
There are clearly advertised and recommended yards offering what I am looking for so it does exist. I am also turned off by ANYONE telling me I cannot take my own horse outside a herd environment, if I had a need to do so. Just doesnt work for me.
And taking a horse out for a brief period to groom and make a fuss of it, is hardly significant coming and going.
My feelings exactly.It's a totally different dynamic. Youngstock herds and retirement herds are not the same as a group of in work horses that are generally healthy, fit, and used to comings and goings, being stabled, turned out, worked - and with these groups there are often mare/gelding separations, age separations, horses that bond and need to be together all the time or kept separate.
With retirement herds, there's a reason each horse is retired, either through age, ill health or injury, and the more settled the herd is, and the fewer non-routine comings and goings there are, the better it is for the individual horses and the herd as a whole. And generally, being managed by one or two regular people (YO, staff etc) is far better for the stability of the group and their wellbeing. Certainly that stability is what I'd look for in a retirement livery, and it wouldn't mean not visiting my horse, it would mean knowing that he/she was settled and happy and I could come along and visit him/her in the herd setting and enjoy seeing them all in that environment.
I'm glad you seem to have found the type of livery you want for your horse.
It's a totally different dynamic. Youngstock herds and retirement herds are not the same as a group of in work horses that are generally healthy, fit, and used to comings and goings, being stabled, turned out, worked - and with these groups there are often mare/gelding separations, age separations, horses that bond and need to be together all the time or kept separate.
With retirement herds, there's a reason each horse is retired, either through age, ill health or injury, and the more settled the herd is, and the fewer non-routine comings and goings there are, the better it is for the individual horses and the herd as a whole. And generally, being managed by one or two regular people (YO, staff etc) is far better for the stability of the group and their wellbeing. Certainly that stability is what I'd look for in a retirement livery, and it wouldn't mean not visiting my horse, it would mean knowing that he/she was settled and happy and I could come along and visit him/her in the herd setting and enjoy seeing them all in that environment.
I'm glad you seem to have found the type of livery you want for your horse.
I didn't say i wasn't open to learning, yet another assuption. But I don't care, I'm happy with what i have found but thanks for explaining it to meI appreciate you probably haven't had the time to read it but my post prior to yours does explain it. Rowreach has also provided a very good explanation of a retirement herd and dynamics in her post 38.
It doesn't crack me up in the slightest that you don't understand a difference. I just find lack of knowledge and not being open to learning a bit sad.
The y.o says ti everyone that they are free to visit whenever they want, there are no restrictions.One person taking one horse and doing that isn't significant, no, but if every owner is doing that at random times on random days of the week, it doesn't make for settled environment and would be a balls to manage from the YO's pov.
But anyway, different yards offer different things, so if you find the yard that suits you and your horse, then really that's all that matters.
Horses really are a bit more adaptable than you are giving them credit for. Herd life is important, and herd dynamics, but they really dont have to all stay together all the time, as long at they are altogether the majority of the time. Youngsters and retirement herds operate better with a little bit of change as par for the course, as when there is a colic / serious injury / sale or death the horses adjust better to change.
Never splitting herds up, or taking horses out leads to much more stress if a horse did have an abscess and couldnt walk and needed to be stabled, or a serious wound that needed box rest, or one of the horses needed splitting up for extra feeding.
Truth be told some people dont want owners on their property, handling there horses and turning up regularly. They would prefer to run a retirement livery set up where the owners dont visit often and dont move their horses when they do visit because it is far easier for livery owner that way. Maybe not all owners are capable of safely entering a herd field, bringing their horse in and handling away from the herd? It is welfare logic that all horses in a herd should be able to safely separated if needed to for medical reasons.
There is a well known retirement herd set up, where the owner used to post here, where they say they periodically bring individual horses in, to make sure it part of their regular routine should it be needed for health reasons. Seems very sensible to me.
The y.o says ti everyone that they are free to visit whenever they want, there are no restrictions.
Where i am going the horses are let in the barn one at a time and led to a stable and given their feeds. This is done twice a day in the winter. It would be ridiculous to feed horses in the field.
When Ludo goes to retirement livery you are telling me you don't want to have some one to one time with him anymore?
And how is me bringing my horse in to fuss and groom any different to him being bought in twice a day by the y.o for feed?
Well, if people want to put horses somewhere that forbids them to catch their own horses up when they visit and bring them in for a groom or some one to one time then more fool them.
And i feel it very sad that people feel justified in having a dig at me for no reason in what is a heartbreaking time for me.I just find lack of knowledge and not being open to learning a bit sad.
You said: I can completely understand why a retirement livery doesn't want people visiting and moving horses all the time. If you want that level of contact, you can leave the horse in "ridden" livery and just not ride.Why on earth have you answered my post about people offering retirement livery as if I have said something critical about you?
I didn't say anything about me either, so please leave my horse out of this.
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You said: I can completely understand why a retirement livery doesn't want people visiting and moving horses all the time. If you want that level of contact, you can leave the horse in "ridden" livery and just not ride.
I asked that if you are sending your horse to retirement livery does that mean that you won't be visiting him reguarly and in order to spend one to one time with him have to take him out of the herd? . It was a quite simple question that i put to you as you said you were going to retire him in one of your recent posts.
I remember when you gave me such a hard times about me wanting to send Lari to the bloodbank, your reasoning being "how do you know he will be comfortable if you are never allowed to visit him?"
Now you are sadly in my situation, the shoe is on the other foot and i understand how upset you must feel.
Wow. My situation doesn't even come close. Are you serious???? How rude are you?.
Nothing I wrote had anything to do with the decision you have made. It was not about you or addressed to you.
Please stop writing about my situation and my horse. Your situation doesn't even come close.
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Nothing I wrote had anything to do with the decision you have made. It was not about you or addressed to you.
Please stop writing about my situation and my horse. Your situation doesn't even come close.
Wow. My situation doesn't even come close. Are you serious???? How rude are you?
I dont see why you cant have both.
If I was to retire a horse away from home, I would want large well draining fields, barn shelter and a nice settled herd and the horse's day to day needs to be fully met by the livery provider.
But when I did visit, I would want to bring horse into yard / tie outside field and check feet / weight / musculature /way moving etc. I'd want to take the horse away from the herd, give the horse a bit of TLC / massage / some carrots etc.
I'd also want fortnightly photo updates of horse without a rug so I can see how they are doing (and would be very happy to pay for this).
There are clearly advertised and recommended yards offering what I am looking for so it does exist. I am also turned off by ANYONE telling me I cannot take my own horse outside a herd environment, if I had a need to do so. Just doesnt work for me.
And taking a horse out for a brief period to groom and make a fuss of it, is hardly significant coming and going.