Retirement Livery - What Do You Get?

Birker2020

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Why would it need a rug on?
Firstly its not an 'it'. Its my beloved horse.

They live out 24/7 and most of the horses are rugged in the winter and as he has been for many years now and is currently he will stay rugged until the warmer weather at least overnight. It was minus 7 the other night by us. I am hoping next winter he might be able to go without. He will only be in a 50g or 100g overnight anyway as he's a warm horse.
 

paddy555

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Well, if people want to put horses somewhere that forbids them to catch their own horses up when they visit and bring them in for a groom or some one to one time then more fool them.

to me you are describing assisted livery which I would have thought was more expensive.

I understood retirement livery to be where your horse was turned out in a group, lived out with hay and was checked (feet trimmed, wormed etc ) and the herd may have a large barn to shelter or just natural shelter. Their owners basically handed them over to the retirement livery and would get updates on them and maybe visit a couple of times a year.

If you had say 20 horses in a field in a herd and 15 of those owners turned up very frequently several at once to take their horses out and groom them then there will be a lot of disruption to the settled herd. They are not going to be a settled herd in that case but simply 20 horses who happen to live in the same field no different really to horses in a normal livery yard who have the benefit of lots of TO.

I don't think it is more fool them but simply of choosing the service they require. If I was running a retirement livery I would expect to be allowed to get on with it without owners constantly moving horses around. Otherwise I would be running an assisted livery where I would expect horses to be constantly moved around and owners to be littering up the place

If a client wants their horse just turned out and basically left to enjoy life in an uninterrupted herd they may not be too happy to find the herd is constantly disrupted by horses coming and going.
 

Birker2020

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You do seem prone to assuming that.
I'm not assuming.

I'm actually waiting for Amymay and YCBM to explain why bringing in a horse from a retirement herd to groom or give a treat and have some one to one time with is any different from bringing a horse in from a herd environment on a livery yard to ride?

But as there is absolutely no difference they cannot answer my question. And questionning why horses have rugs on when they are not acclimitised to being out 24/7 much less when its minus 7 at night is a bit obvious.

I have never herd of equine retirement meaning horses are never handled by tgeir owners. I'd never contemplate such a place and neither would most people.
Paddy 555 i was on a livery yard with 30 geldings turned out into about 50 acres and owners were coming at all hours to get horses in for farrier/riding, etc. Never upset them. Honestly this forum cracks me up 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
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Rowreach

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I'm not assuming.

I'm actually waiting for Amymay and YCBM to explain why bringing in a horse from a retirement herd to groom or give a treat and have some one to one time with is any different from bringing a horse in from a herd environment on a livery yard to ride?

But as there is absolutely no difference they cannot answer my question. And questionning why horses have rugs on when they are not acclimitised to being out 24/7 much less when its minus 7 at night is a bit obvious.

I have never herd of equine retirement meaning horses are never handled by tgeir owners. I'd never contemplate such a place and neither would most people.
Paddy 555 i was on a livery yard with 30 geldings turned out into about 50 acres and owners were coming at all hours to get horses in for farrier/riding, etc. Never upset them. Honestly this forum cracks me up 🤣🤣🤣🤣

It's a totally different dynamic. Youngstock herds and retirement herds are not the same as a group of in work horses that are generally healthy, fit, and used to comings and goings, being stabled, turned out, worked - and with these groups there are often mare/gelding separations, age separations, horses that bond and need to be together all the time or kept separate.

With retirement herds, there's a reason each horse is retired, either through age, ill health or injury, and the more settled the herd is, and the fewer non-routine comings and goings there are, the better it is for the individual horses and the herd as a whole. And generally, being managed by one or two regular people (YO, staff etc) is far better for the stability of the group and their wellbeing. Certainly that stability is what I'd look for in a retirement livery, and it wouldn't mean not visiting my horse, it would mean knowing that he/she was settled and happy and I could come along and visit him/her in the herd setting and enjoy seeing them all in that environment.

I'm glad you seem to have found the type of livery you want for your horse.
 

Birker2020

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It's a totally different dynamic. Youngstock herds and retirement herds are not the same as a group of in work horses that are generally healthy, fit, and used to comings and goings, being stabled, turned out, worked - and with these groups there are often mare/gelding separations, age separations, horses that bond and need to be together all the time or kept separate.

With retirement herds, there's a reason each horse is retired, either through age, ill health or injury, and the more settled the herd is, and the fewer non-routine comings and goings there are, the better it is for the individual horses and the herd as a whole. And generally, being managed by one or two regular people (YO, staff etc) is far better for the stability of the group and their wellbeing. Certainly that stability is what I'd look for in a retirement livery, and it wouldn't mean not visiting my horse, it would mean knowing that he/she was settled and happy and I could come along and visit him/her in the herd setting and enjoy seeing them all in that environment.

I'm glad you seem to have found the type of livery you want for your horse.
Yes it is exactly the type of livery i want, tbh I couldn't care what anyone else thinks. My friends horse has been there years and he's happy being brought in and out, the herd don't give a stuff. They are used to it, some of them are in and out twice daily being fed.

I've rung up four retirement places before this and they are all run the same way.
 

paddy555

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Paddy 555 i was on a livery yard with 30 geldings turned out into about 50 acres and owners were coming at all hours to get horses in for farrier/riding, etc. Never upset them. Honestly this forum cracks me up 🤣🤣🤣🤣


I appreciate you probably haven't had the time to read it but my post prior to yours does explain it. Rowreach has also provided a very good explanation of a retirement herd and dynamics in her post 38.

It doesn't crack me up in the slightest that you don't understand a difference. I just find lack of knowledge and not being open to learning a bit sad.
 

AmyMay

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I'm not assuming.

I'm actually waiting for Amymay and YCBM to explain why bringing in a horse from a retirement herd to groom or give a treat and have some one to one time with is any different from bringing a horse in from a herd environment on a livery yard to ride?

But as there is absolutely no difference they cannot answer my question. And questionning why horses have rugs on when they are not acclimitised to being out 24/7 much less when its minus 7 at night is a bit obvious.

I have never herd of equine retirement meaning horses are never handled by tgeir owners. I'd never contemplate such a place and neither would most people.
Paddy 555 i was on a livery yard with 30 geldings turned out into about 50 acres and owners were coming at all hours to get horses in for farrier/riding, etc. Never upset them. Honestly this forum cracks me up 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I’m not sure I have anything to explain 🤷🏻‍♀️. My understanding of retirement livery is obviously at odds with yours.

As for rugging - owner’s preference I guess. However if I were preparing for retirement (perhaps as in your case) then the horse would have been appropriately roughed off and rugs ditched. It just seems logical and one less thing to worry about. But obviously not everyone has time to prepare if the decision to retire (perhaps in the case of sudden LOU) is rather sudden. So I do understand the instances where rugs stay on.
 
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Fieldlife

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to me you are describing assisted livery which I would have thought was more expensive.

I understood retirement livery to be where your horse was turned out in a group, lived out with hay and was checked (feet trimmed, wormed etc ) and the herd may have a large barn to shelter or just natural shelter. Their owners basically handed them over to the retirement livery and would get updates on them and maybe visit a couple of times a year.

If you had say 20 horses in a field in a herd and 15 of those owners turned up very frequently several at once to take their horses out and groom them then there will be a lot of disruption to the settled herd. They are not going to be a settled herd in that case but simply 20 horses who happen to live in the same field no different really to horses in a normal livery yard who have the benefit of lots of TO.

I don't think it is more fool them but simply of choosing the service they require. If I was running a retirement livery I would expect to be allowed to get on with it without owners constantly moving horses around. Otherwise I would be running an assisted livery where I would expect horses to be constantly moved around and owners to be littering up the place

If a client wants their horse just turned out and basically left to enjoy life in an uninterrupted herd they may not be too happy to find the herd is constantly disrupted by horses coming and going.

I dont see why you cant have both.

If I was to retire a horse away from home, I would want large well draining fields, barn shelter and a nice settled herd and the horse's day to day needs to be fully met by the livery provider.

But when I did visit, I would want to bring horse into yard / tie outside field and check feet / weight / musculature /way moving etc. I'd want to take the horse away from the herd, give the horse a bit of TLC / massage / some carrots etc.

I'd also want fortnightly photo updates of horse without a rug so I can see how they are doing (and would be very happy to pay for this).

There are clearly advertised and recommended yards offering what I am looking for so it does exist. I am also turned off by ANYONE telling me I cannot take my own horse outside a herd environment, if I had a need to do so. Just doesnt work for me.

And taking a horse out for a brief period to groom and make a fuss of it, is hardly significant coming and going.
 

Rowreach

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I dont see why you cant have both.

If I was to retire a horse away from home, I would want large well draining fields, barn shelter and a nice settled herd and the horse's day to day needs to be fully met by the livery provider.

But when I did visit, I would want to bring horse into yard / tie outside field and check feet / weight / musculature /way moving etc. I'd want to take the horse away from the herd, give the horse a bit of TLC / massage / some carrots etc.

I'd also want fortnightly photo updates of horse without a rug so I can see how they are doing (and would be very happy to pay for this).

There are clearly advertised and recommended yards offering what I am looking for so it does exist. I am also turned off by ANYONE telling me I cannot take my own horse outside a herd environment, if I had a need to do so. Just doesnt work for me.

And taking a horse out for a brief period to groom and make a fuss of it, is hardly significant coming and going.

One person taking one horse and doing that isn't significant, no, but if every owner is doing that at random times on random days of the week, it doesn't make for settled environment and would be a balls to manage from the YO's pov.

But anyway, different yards offer different things, so if you find the yard that suits you and your horse, then really that's all that matters.
 

eahotson

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It's a totally different dynamic. Youngstock herds and retirement herds are not the same as a group of in work horses that are generally healthy, fit, and used to comings and goings, being stabled, turned out, worked - and with these groups there are often mare/gelding separations, age separations, horses that bond and need to be together all the time or kept separate.

With retirement herds, there's a reason each horse is retired, either through age, ill health or injury, and the more settled the herd is, and the fewer non-routine comings and goings there are, the better it is for the individual horses and the herd as a whole. And generally, being managed by one or two regular people (YO, staff etc) is far better for the stability of the group and their wellbeing. Certainly that stability is what I'd look for in a retirement livery, and it wouldn't mean not visiting my horse, it would mean knowing that he/she was settled and happy and I could come along and visit him/her in the herd setting and enjoy seeing them all in that environment.

I'm glad you seem to have found the type of livery you want for your horse.
My feelings exactly.
 

Fieldlife

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It's a totally different dynamic. Youngstock herds and retirement herds are not the same as a group of in work horses that are generally healthy, fit, and used to comings and goings, being stabled, turned out, worked - and with these groups there are often mare/gelding separations, age separations, horses that bond and need to be together all the time or kept separate.

With retirement herds, there's a reason each horse is retired, either through age, ill health or injury, and the more settled the herd is, and the fewer non-routine comings and goings there are, the better it is for the individual horses and the herd as a whole. And generally, being managed by one or two regular people (YO, staff etc) is far better for the stability of the group and their wellbeing. Certainly that stability is what I'd look for in a retirement livery, and it wouldn't mean not visiting my horse, it would mean knowing that he/she was settled and happy and I could come along and visit him/her in the herd setting and enjoy seeing them all in that environment.

I'm glad you seem to have found the type of livery you want for your horse.

Horses really are a bit more adaptable than you are giving them credit for. Herd life is important, and herd dynamics, but they really dont have to all stay together all the time, as long at they are altogether the majority of the time. Youngsters and retirement herds operate better with a little bit of change as par for the course, as when there is a colic / serious injury / sale or death the horses adjust better to change.

Never splitting herds up, or taking horses out leads to much more stress if a horse did have an abscess and couldnt walk and needed to be stabled, or a serious wound that needed box rest, or one of the horses needed splitting up for extra feeding.

Truth be told some people dont want owners on their property, handling there horses and turning up regularly. They would prefer to run a retirement livery set up where the owners dont visit often and dont move their horses when they do visit because it is far easier for livery owner that way. Maybe not all owners are capable of safely entering a herd field, bringing their horse in and handling away from the herd? It is welfare logic that all horses in a herd should be able to safely separated if needed to for medical reasons.

There is a well known retirement herd set up, where the owner used to post here, where they say they periodically bring individual horses in, to make sure it part of their regular routine should it be needed for health reasons. Seems very sensible to me.
 

Birker2020

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I appreciate you probably haven't had the time to read it but my post prior to yours does explain it. Rowreach has also provided a very good explanation of a retirement herd and dynamics in her post 38.

It doesn't crack me up in the slightest that you don't understand a difference. I just find lack of knowledge and not being open to learning a bit sad.
I didn't say i wasn't open to learning, yet another assuption. But I don't care, I'm happy with what i have found but thanks for explaining it to me 😁
 

Birker2020

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One person taking one horse and doing that isn't significant, no, but if every owner is doing that at random times on random days of the week, it doesn't make for settled environment and would be a balls to manage from the YO's pov.

But anyway, different yards offer different things, so if you find the yard that suits you and your horse, then really that's all that matters.
The y.o says ti everyone that they are free to visit whenever they want, there are no restrictions.
 

Rowreach

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Horses really are a bit more adaptable than you are giving them credit for. Herd life is important, and herd dynamics, but they really dont have to all stay together all the time, as long at they are altogether the majority of the time. Youngsters and retirement herds operate better with a little bit of change as par for the course, as when there is a colic / serious injury / sale or death the horses adjust better to change.

Never splitting herds up, or taking horses out leads to much more stress if a horse did have an abscess and couldnt walk and needed to be stabled, or a serious wound that needed box rest, or one of the horses needed splitting up for extra feeding.

Truth be told some people dont want owners on their property, handling there horses and turning up regularly. They would prefer to run a retirement livery set up where the owners dont visit often and dont move their horses when they do visit because it is far easier for livery owner that way. Maybe not all owners are capable of safely entering a herd field, bringing their horse in and handling away from the herd? It is welfare logic that all horses in a herd should be able to safely separated if needed to for medical reasons.

There is a well known retirement herd set up, where the owner used to post here, where they say they periodically bring individual horses in, to make sure it part of their regular routine should it be needed for health reasons. Seems very sensible to me.

You are putting an awful lot of words into my mouth there …
 
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Fieldlife

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The y.o says ti everyone that they are free to visit whenever they want, there are no restrictions.

And IMO that is how it should be and the reality is most owners will visit regularly at first, and as they see the horse is settled, happy and thriving, visit a bit less.
Safe in the knowledge they can visit and groom and fuss their horse any time they chose to.

Just because you can visit daily, doesnt mean many people at all would.
 

ycbm

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Where i am going the horses are let in the barn one at a time and led to a stable and given their feeds. This is done twice a day in the winter. It would be ridiculous to feed horses in the field.

When Ludo goes to retirement livery you are telling me you don't want to have some one to one time with him anymore?

And how is me bringing my horse in to fuss and groom any different to him being bought in twice a day by the y.o for feed?


Why on earth have you answered my post about people offering retirement livery as if I have said something critical about you?

I didn't say anything about me either, so please leave my horse out of this.
.
 
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ycbm

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Well, if people want to put horses somewhere that forbids them to catch their own horses up when they visit and bring them in for a groom or some one to one time then more fool them.

Just because they want something different from what you would want does not make them idiots.

I imagine plenty of people want their horse to have a lovely retirement but no longer want to spend time with that horse themselves. There are plenty of horses that don't like being groomed, or fussed, as well.

And I'm sure there are plenty of retirement livery providers who would much rather not have owners turning up all the time, and not because they are trying to hide anything but because the place is also their home, or a working farm, for example. .

Nobody is forcing anyone to retire their horse to anywhere. You choose a place that suits you and the horse, end of.
.
 
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Birker2020

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I just find lack of knowledge and not being open to learning a bit sad.
And i feel it very sad that people feel justified in having a dig at me for no reason in what is a heartbreaking time for me.

You for one have followed my journey over these past 17 months and know how much i love and care for my horse and what he means to me. You are aware of how much soul searching i have done to try to secure a happy future for this horse and how much effort, work, money and love i have poured into him to try and get him right.

Yet you feel you can treat me like something you'd find on the bottom of your shoe.
 

Birker2020

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Why on earth have you answered my post about people offering retirement livery as if I have said something critical about you?

I didn't say anything about me either, so please leave my horse out of this.
.
You said: I can completely understand why a retirement livery doesn't want people visiting and moving horses all the time. If you want that level of contact, you can leave the horse in "ridden" livery and just not ride.

I asked that if you are sending your horse to retirement livery does that mean that you won't be visiting him reguarly and in order to spend one to one time with him have to take him out of the herd? . It was a quite simple question that i put to you as you said you were going to retire Ludo in one of your recent posts.

I remember when you gave me such a hard time about me wanting to send Lari to the bloodbank, your reasoning being "how do you know he will be comfortable if you are never allowed to visit him?"

Now you are sadly in my situation, the shoe is on the other foot and I for one can fully understand how upset you must feel and would never give you a hard time about your choice, like you did me.
 

ycbm

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You said: I can completely understand why a retirement livery doesn't want people visiting and moving horses all the time. If you want that level of contact, you can leave the horse in "ridden" livery and just not ride.

I asked that if you are sending your horse to retirement livery does that mean that you won't be visiting him reguarly and in order to spend one to one time with him have to take him out of the herd? . It was a quite simple question that i put to you as you said you were going to retire him in one of your recent posts.

I remember when you gave me such a hard times about me wanting to send Lari to the bloodbank, your reasoning being "how do you know he will be comfortable if you are never allowed to visit him?"

Now you are sadly in my situation, the shoe is on the other foot and i understand how upset you must feel.

Nothing I wrote had anything to do with the decision you have made. It was not about you or addressed to you.

Please stop writing about my situation and my horse. Your situation doesn't even come close.
.
 

Birker2020

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.


Nothing I wrote had anything to do with the decision you have made. It was not about you or addressed to you.

Please stop writing about my situation and my horse. Your situation doesn't even come close.
.
Wow. My situation doesn't even come close. Are you serious???? How rude are you?
 

Fieldlife

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Nothing I wrote had anything to do with the decision you have made. It was not about you or addressed to you.
Please stop writing about my situation and my horse. Your situation doesn't even come close.

Play nicely. Hurling insults about something so sensitive and personal is beneath you.

Blowing out someone else's candle doesnt make yours burn more brightly.

Both of you love your horses.
Both of you envisaged a long ridden career together.
Both of you have cruelly had your hopes dashed.
Both of you want to do the right thing by your horses
Both of you are trying to find a way to offer your horses a retirement situation they will be happy in.
 

ycbm

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Wow. My situation doesn't even come close. Are you serious???? How rude are you?

Yes I'm serious. You know nothing of what is happening with my horse right now because I'm deliberately not writing about it because it's so upsetting.

PLEASE STOP!
 

myheartinahoofbeat

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My TB went to a retirement livery for a few years. He lived in a mixed herd of about 20. They lived out all year ( although there were stables available if one had to do box rest etc.) They were unrugged. In winter they were put in smaller herds and moved to fresh grazing every few weeks. They were not given any hard feed during this time, just loads of hay. I was a bit worried about my TB without a rug or hard feed in winter but he took to it really well. He looked the best he'd ever looked coming out of the winter. i only moved him because I got my own place with land so I brought him home. It was £50 a week. You could visit whenever you wanted
 

paddy555

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I dont see why you cant have both.

If I was to retire a horse away from home, I would want large well draining fields, barn shelter and a nice settled herd and the horse's day to day needs to be fully met by the livery provider.

But when I did visit, I would want to bring horse into yard / tie outside field and check feet / weight / musculature /way moving etc. I'd want to take the horse away from the herd, give the horse a bit of TLC / massage / some carrots etc.

I'd also want fortnightly photo updates of horse without a rug so I can see how they are doing (and would be very happy to pay for this).

There are clearly advertised and recommended yards offering what I am looking for so it does exist. I am also turned off by ANYONE telling me I cannot take my own horse outside a herd environment, if I had a need to do so. Just doesnt work for me.

And taking a horse out for a brief period to groom and make a fuss of it, is hardly significant coming and going.

surely you can have whatever you want. Different liveries provide different services.

I guess many people with retired horses work M- F so may well go down to the livery on a Sunday say. What if you have a field of 20 horses and half of the owners do the same. Is the owner supposed to provide a yard and or stable? for everyone who wants to come. Some of the horses will be pair bonded. If an owner removes their horse for the afternoon the YO may well end up with the pair getting upset at being left.

The YO is responsible for those 20 horses. They may feel they are taking responsibility for that herd of 20 in retirement, not people traipsing in and out of their field/yard and having to provide facilities for them.
Not everyone is experienced in taking a horse out of a herd of 20 or any number. There are posts on here of people getting hurt, can't get the horse out of the gate etc. Is the YO suppose to supervise,


I think it would be reasonable to assume that if the YO saw them twice a day to check they would be capable of removing one if they needed to.
I'm sure you are right. Some people don't want owners constantly on their property.
As long as the boundaries are set out clearly in the livery agreement then no problem.

It simply boils down to if someone wants retirement livery or assisted livery and being able visit as and when they chose.

I think from some of the comments that some people are perhaps looking more for assisted grass livery. ie checking, feeding and 24/7 TO but the liberty to visit as and remove the horse as and when they want. Nothing wrong with that.
 

Birker2020

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Well with the livery I'm going to she says you can visit whenever you want and do what you want with your horse so I'm happy with that. It suits my requirements.

And like I said in my first post it might be once a week it might be twice until I get another horse. I'm lucky that I finish work at 3.30pm so I can go after work but she's open till 9pm anyway seven days a week.

I gather most people visit on a weekly basis. My friend visits her once or twice a week.

OP its £195 per month, hay cost split between number of horses in the winter, holding for farrier/vet extra. Feed twice a day f.o.c if you supply your own. Rugging changes f.o.c. Owner seems really nice, i think she has a couple of clients who still ride their horses there, a couple of horses have pair bonded.
 
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