Retirement or put to sleep?

[sv-masterchef]

We have a very difficult decision to make at the moment and are interested in other people's opinions. We have a 16.3, 7 year old who has multiple issues, including sacroiliac joint problems, acute kissing spines, arthritis in his neck and hind limb lameness. We are in the middle of investigating all of these issues, using the top vets and physiotherapists we can find. However, the outcome is not looking good and it is likely that he will never be able to be ridden again, or at the very best, just be a hack. He is not a candidate for surgery and gets very upset when he goes to the clinic for treatment, making us wonder even more about how much we can put him through. We have accepted that there is no value in the horse and only want what is best for him now, bearing in mind that he cannot live in as he is 'claustrophobic'. He also is very sharp to hack and is not easy to handle due to his size and nervy personality.

The vets have asked us to consider having him put down due to all these reasons but we are completely torn. We have also looked into retirement packages offered by some yards as we do not have enough space to keep him turned out with us, but these are proving very expensive.

Any thoughts and opinions are welcomed!

 

[YasandCrystal]

If it were me - I would at least give him the summer in retirement and then make a decision in the autumn, dependant on how happy/painfree he is. Especially as you are undecided. My WB has had 16 months unridden and 9 months of Dr Green. he has chronic SI dysfunction. I had him manipulated by a holistic vet (also osteo trained) last July and she said now turn him away for 8 months, which I did. He will come into inhand work to start with in the next couple of weeks. My WB is 7 now and 17hh and cannot live in (he was abused in a stable).

Retirement livery around here is around £25 pw which includes trimming and worming and hay in winter. I don't know where you are but I refer to Essex/Suffolk pricing.

 

[cptrayes]

....sacroiliac joint problems, acute kissing spines, arthritis in his neck and hind limb lameness.........gets very upset when he goes to the clinic for treatment....... cannot live in as he is 'claustrophobic'. ........ also is very sharp to hack and is not easy to handle due to his size and nervy personality.

I'd have him put down.



ps around here it would be extremely unusual for a vet to request that you put the horse to sleep. I think you should listen to them.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would probally PTS in your situation .
It's very sad but much worse things can happen to a horse than PTS I also worry about them being in long term low grade chronic pain but there are in my opinion no right or wrong in the situation you are in everyone has to make there own desision based on your situation and the individual horse.

 

[laurapru]

I feel for completely and I have just made the same decision. My Horse who is shire x 15.2 and 15 years old, has had endless fore lameness issues on the both legs and his tendon has gone for a second time in 6 months. He also has a pocket of fluid that may or may not be connected to the joint in the left hoof that is causing pressure. He has been on various periods of box rests for the last 8 months, and now will require more to heal the tendon and then he will need to left fore drilled to relieve the pressure with amount to approx 4-6months box rest controlled exercise etc etc. I feel that I can no longer let him go thru this, he has had so many trips to the vet and so many needles/xrays that it is not fair to continue as there is no guarantee he will be sound at the end of it. As much as it breaks my heart, he is going to heaven tomorrow morning..........
Best of luck with your decision, but don't let him suffer - you'll know when enough is enough x

 

[Wagtail]

I have a horse that has multiple problems including kissing spine and bone spavin. I am unable to keep him out 24/7 in the winter due to our land being clay soil and it poaches very easily. Luckily he is great in a stable, but when he isn't in work during the winter, he is very difficult to handle. My only option, if he can never be ridden again is to lunge him every day (he will not loose school). If he is unable to cope with the lunging, then I will have to put him to sleep, though I would probably do my best to get through the handling issues, rather than have to go that route. I am going to bring him back into work as soon as he recovers from his allergic reaction to mosquito bites which happened despite him wearing a fly rug! I am desperately hoping he can be ridden again so he can be kept out of mischief. He's fine on 24/7 turnout but is a wuss and would not like being out 24/7 in the winter and so retirement livery at grass would not be an option. I think that sadly, in your situation, if you can't find an affordable retirement livery, I would advise PTS. Poor boy. I really do feel for you. I don't know if I could ever make that decision if the horse was happy in the field.

 

[BethH]

I saw your post under the stolen horse section and have posted a reply horrid situation for you - i hope you can find a way forward

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I am with YasandCrystal.

You don't say if he is on any medication like bute.
if he is:

1. How many?
2. Is he comfortable on bute albeit 1 or 2 once or twice a day?
3. Have you tried no bute
4. Is he on joint supplement
5. What is causing the lameness other than the fore-mentioned problems.
6. Could Acupuncture help
7. Hydrotherapy help
   

Let him have the summer to enjoy and give you time to think. Retirement livery cost , are these based on your area or over the country?

There are a number of options.(can't think this early in the day)
Retirement livery
Companion

If it were me I would ask the vet would he be ok as a field ornament with or without bute. If the answer was yes, then I would do an extra bit of work to make the difference up and afford to keep him. This depends on how long you have had the horse and how much sentimental attachment you have fore him.

Good luck hope you sort something out .

This forum might have a few suggestions , I haven't read them all just surfed the net.
http://www.equine-world.co.uk/horse-forums/archive/index.php?t-702.html

Personally, i would feel like i have 'used' the horse for a ride etc and then throwing him to the rubbish just because he was unriddable.

On this web site

 

[sv-masterchef]

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions, it really is a heartbreaking decision. In response to your comments/ questions, he isn't on any bute at the moment as the problems are as far as we know, only aggravated and made painful when he is working, both on the lunge and under saddle. However, we are still in the middle of all this and new problems such as the sacroiliac and hind limb lameness issues only came to light yesterday afternoon so we still have to consider if he is in pain when at rest too. The fact that he is a chronic box walker and seems to not be able to stay still when he is in also worries us as this could indicate that there is pain somewhere.
Although he is happier in the field than in a stable, he still stands at the gate every morning looking bored and generally fed up. This worries us a lot as we just don't know how he would cope through the winter.

He has another appointment at the clinic a week today. We are going to get a full and final diagnosis but after discussing it at length, have decided that we won't allow any further treatment involving needles/operations/box rest/staying in at the clinic as he has been through enough now.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I do keep banging on about holistic vets, but they really are a very different breed from conventional vets and think outside the box and source the problems back to the cause. Your boy's SI problem may wel have caused the hindlimb lameness or vice versa - cure/treat the source one and the other goes away. As for the arthritis in the neck - well if he is in pain and not using his backend properly and tracking through then he is likely holding himself with his neck which will aggravate any changes.

I sent my boy to a holistic vet, who is a trained osteopath and acupunturist also. She uses herbs too for gut balancing. He went there on grass turnout for 2 weeks and was treated daily with osteopathy to mobilise his sacrum. She gave him a full assessment first. He was happy for her to treat him which spoke volumes as he like yours was sick of vets and needles and he was aggressive and dangerous. He came back (and it was very inexpensive - only 10% of my whopping AHT bill!) a different horse. He moves better and I am hopeful now (his muscle size increase on the poor side makes me positive and hiopeful) that after 9 months of Dr Green he will be rideable. I know he is pain free for probably the first time in 5 years. Conventional vets don't believe that a sacrum can be mobilised, but the proof is in the difference in his movement.
I don't know where you are I used Donna Blinman at Higham, who is earning herself a rightly brilliant reputation for fixing broken horses.
I am sure there are other brilliant holistic vets around the country - please don't discount this route. If nothing else it would bring you certainty for a low cost that you had tried everything.

http://www.donnablinman.co.uk/

 

[wyrdsister]

Tough decision to make. I had a similar choice with my life partner mare last year. She has kissing spines, sacroiliac problems, damage to the supraspinous ligament, Equine Metabolic Syndrome, and something exasperatingly mythical wrong with her feet (soles like tissue paper, regardless of diet, always footy on hard ground, but no rotation and near perfect internal structures). She's also prone to mild bouts of laminitis, so usually needs to stay in and/or be muzzled, and at one stage seems to have fractured her withers, although this has healed. Her problems should have been managable, at least according to two of the three vets (super pros in this area), and we could temporarily stabilise her well enough for her to happily come back into light work. Then something would go wrong and the whole lot would cascade again, leaving us back at square one.

Her primary vet (the referral vet) is still of the mind that, with more more and time, they might be able to get somewhere. Her original vet sides with him. A second vet at the referral practice concluded that 's*d it and shoot it' was the best solution! 4 years of treatment and more money down the line than I even dare to think about, it seemed like he had a fair point! By this time, the poor girl was a fed-up, stressed out, grumpy wreck. So what next? LPM hated being retired (she was turned away twice, once for ten months, once for a year) and never really settled, even in a quiet, stable, herd on grazing that didn't trigger her lami. But she was so stressed about it thatI came very, very close (as in within hours one time) of having her PTS.

In the end, though, she's been moved to a retirement centre. She's out 24/7 in an established herd, where she doesn't have to see me or my other horses (and thus come hurtling to the gate begging for attention). The grazing is managed carefully so she doesn't need stabling or a muzzle and something in the quality of the soil down there works better for her feet. She's field sound, chilled, and relatively content (if rather bored). Is it ideal? No. Should I have had her PTS? Sometimes I still think so. Is she in pain? In her current set-up, I don't believe so. Is she happy? Honestly, this horse loves her work and isn't thrilled to be idle, but she's calm, bright-eyed, and shiny-coated. She's okay and she's well looked after. If the situation changes, I'll reassess.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that those were the questions I was asking myself (bearing in mind this horse too is on no meds and no longer obviously miserable, which she was during some of the treatment) and have a think outside the box. If you can't offer the right retirement solution, do you know someone who can? Will retirement work (especially in a different set-up - I didn't think it would with mine, I was wrong about that!)? Are they comfortable enough to enjoy it (bearing in mind totally pain-free is something that probably most humans and animals can't actually claim on a daily basis!)? Can you afford it? What do your vets think of the option? Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Maesfen]

I'd have him put down.



ps around here it would be extremely unusual for a vet to request that you put the horse to sleep. I think you should listen to them.

Totally agree.

With those issues he can only be in continuous pain to some degree; it would be very unfair to him to continue when you have already been told by your experts that he'll not recover.

 

[mightymammoth]

Would he be suitable for a bloodbank?

 

[mightymammoth]

What area are you in? Would you be looking for retirement livery near you soyou could go regulary? If you can expand your search further you may find cheaper options. I found the prices varied hugely.

 

[AmyMay]

The vets have asked us to consider having him put down due to all these reasons

I'd be making arrangements pdq in that case.

 

[FreddiesGal]

I would PTS. IMO it is un fair to the horse to have him suffer, and if he has to live on bute just to be pain free, what sort of quality of life is that for him? Just out of interest, what feed is he on?

 

[Dab]

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions, it really is a heartbreaking decision. In response to your comments/ questions, he isn't on any bute at the moment as the problems are as far as we know, only aggravated and made painful when he is working, both on the lunge and under saddle. However, we are still in the middle of all this and new problems such as the sacroiliac and hind limb lameness issues only came to light yesterday afternoon so we still have to consider if he is in pain when at rest too. The fact that he is a chronic box walker and seems to not be able to stay still when he is in also worries us as this could indicate that there is pain somewhere.
Although he is happier in the field than in a stable, he still stands at the gate every morning looking bored and generally fed up. This worries us a lot as we just don't know how he would cope through the winter.

He has another appointment at the clinic a week today. We are going to get a full and final diagnosis but after discussing it at length, have decided that we won't allow any further treatment involving needles/operations/box rest/staying in at the clinic as he has been through enough now.

I've Pm'ed you

 

[sv-masterchef]

What area are you in? Would you be looking for retirement livery near you soyou could go regulary? If you can expand your search further you may find cheaper options. I found the prices varied hugely.

We're in Gloucestershire but have been looking at retirement centres all over the country really! They are either full, very expensive or just unsuitable. We are still hunting around, even considering stupidly expensive retirement packages, but with him only being 7, it would be extremely costly.

Thank you so much for everyone taking the time to reply, we are reading everybody's suggestions and doing further research into the holistic approach. Does anybody else have any experiences of holistic vets?

We are going to research the vets a few of you have mentioned.

 

[Charliechalk]

You could try Christopher Day who is based in Farringdon in Oxford. Just out of interest which vet are you using in Gloucestershire?

 

[applecart14]

To be honest the kissing spines and hind limb lameness (the two often go hand in hand) are the least of your problems - I'm guessing the sacro illiac problems are to do with the KS too. I would be more concerned about the arthritis in his neck. From my own experience of having a horse with CVM/Wobblers due to damaging his neck from falling in the field I thought I would share with you my concern. It is my understanding, (and I may be wrong when I say this) is that if your horse gets calcification in his neck bones due to arthritis and therefore new bone is laid on top of current bone then the spinal column will narrow and this will impinge the nerves and spinal cord. Eventually the horse could become ataxic. This will mean he is wobbly on his legs (as is the case in Wobbler horses hence the name). Sometimes this can mean that the horse has difficulty rising and in some situations can be deemed a danger not only to himself, but to others due to his unbalanced condition. It can also cause recumbency (the horse is unable to rise). If I were you I'd discuss this arthritis in the neck in more detail with your vet. That coupled with the other problems would leave me to think that the horse would be better off for all concerned, not least himself if he was PTS. I feel for you, not an easy decision in all honesty although I would be guided by your vets advice. I am not a vet myself but I had to listen to my horses consultant and had my horse pts at 10 due to the neck problem.

I know that the blood bank/retirement might seem like a way out of the dreadful situation you are now finding yourself in but in reality it could be unfair to your horse long term and a holistic vet is not going to be able to change the situation with your horses conditions, only help to improve what really can't be improved without surgery which isn't a viable option in your horses case.

 

[Parker79]

So sorry to hear this...I would PTS in IMO. Really really hard to do...I'm struggling with the decision myself.

My mare is 20 and have suffered with problems for 10 year but she has always been kept comfortable and field sound....I even managed to hack her occasionally (albeit not often).

I am trying to give her more time but she hasn't done as well this year and so I'm not sure she will be ok in winter. I debated doing it a few weeks back as she had some additional issues.

The reason I say PTS is because the conditions you mention would mean turnout is his best option...if he isn't happy like this then its really hard to give him a happy retirement. At age 7 I dont think I would be willing to pay for 20 years of a retirement livery...I would only be keeping him if I could keep him myself, happy and content as a field ornament.

 

[showaddy1]

I have just been through what you are experiencing right now. I decided to pts... for few reasons....
I couldnt be sure that he was painfree, and a life of pain is not a life worth living..
I didnt want to offer him as a companion, there are unscrupulous ppl around who may have sold him on as a riding horse.
It was the most difficult decision I have ever made, the guilt is overwhelming but, I didnt want him to suffer.
I had mine shot, something which I have done before and would certainly do again. The horse knew nothing. I led him out of his stable with a bucket of food, passed him to a very good friend ( couldnt see for the tears) 10 seconds later he was gone.
Only you can make the decision, and I'm sure those around you will support you in whatever you decide xx

 

[Maesfen]

Couldn't agree more with Applecart.

 

[sv-masterchef]

First of all I would like to thank everyone for their replys especially the ones from people in similar situations. I am very grateful for the extra information and advice you have all given us and we have researched all of it.
To " AppleCart" I would like to say your words are really ringing true and a lot of other advice we have been given about his neck is beginning to worry us more. He is definitely not quite connected to his back end and with a lot of hind sight we are seeing that there has always been something not quite right about him and his way of going. Things have just got a lot worse this year.
He has a follow up appt on Friday and I am going to raise all of these issues with the vet, but we are not optimistic about his future.
Once again thanks to everyone, the advice on this forum has been fantastic.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

I would personally give him a few happy week and have him PTS.