Retirement

[Clodagh]

Those of you who work or compete your dogs, how did you decide it was time to wind down or stop?
Tawny is only soon to be 7 but totally bottoms herself on a days shooting. She thinks she is a spaniel and crashes into all cover at 90 mph, she runs until she is fit to drop and she HAS TO GET THE PHEASANT.
I will never have another dog like her, her commitment is ridiculous. Our last day out she did two really hard retrieves at the first drive. She came back with her birds but her eyes were bleeding and she had to lie down while loading up. I can't keep doing this to her (or my nerves). It is notable how much more cheerful and friendly she is after a few days off, I think she strains every sinew and gets so exhausted she doesn't know what to do with herself.
The other two, while keen and enthusiastic, have a better sense of self preservation and can actually do 2 days a week with no ill effects.
Although I don't work on big shoots as I have less dogs than the big boys they probably do as much overall as I only work one or two a day.
It looks unlikely we will get out again this year (tier 4) so perhaps it is time for me to make a hard decision about her, in her own best interests.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Not quite the same but I think Sprollie's agility days are done for similar reasons... he's 9 and still fit as a fiddle but he just wastes himself so completely. He was getting a bit stiff the day after agility night before lockdown put a stop to it. But now he's had such a long gap and lost the fitness he had I think, because he can't moderate himself at all, it wouldn't be particularly wise to take him back once they re-start/I feel comfortable going back.

 

[Clodagh]

Will you need to find another job/hobby for him?

 

[PapaverFollis]

Will you need to find another job/hobby for him?

Not really. As I said, not really the same as retiring a working dog but that lack of self-preservation struck a cord.... He's pretty settled now anyway, we do training things on walks. It's just a bit sad and I'll never have another dog as talented that's for sure!

 

[Clodagh]

It's just a bit sad and I'll never have another dog as talented that's for sure!

That’s the trouble with the best ones.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

OP, you have said before that your dogs are primarily pets, so I'm not sure that it is a hard decision really, unless Tawny will fret if left at home when other dogs are taken shooting. Either way, it is obvious from what you have said that it is time to retire her, before she gets seriously injured

 

[CorvusCorax]

One got too trial-wise/started going out of control in competitions and the other one can't jump and is unreliable in tracking.

Ironically the mental one has retired much better, lots of people have assumed he'll self-harm/become destructive etc etc but he's happy out.
Still fit as a fiddle and plenty of energy, tried agility but got bored easily and deliberately knocked poles so he could run around with them in his mouth and also tried to eat the weaves.
I did do an experiment when he was 7 or 8 where I did nothing with him for a year to see if his expectation level would drop and then trialled him but it didn't work.
He's trained up a lot of young helpers and hopefully will continue to do so.
One of the guys I train met us in the park and couldn't believe it was the same dog poddling along beside me, he normally just sees a blur of hair and teeth and spit and anger ?

The other one is just a more sensitive soul generally, misses the lifestyle, is hard to keep sound, eats himself but he was six when I got him and I'm not going to break him over the hurdle at his age, nor am I going to drive 1.4k for him to decide he's not really feeling like tracking today ? he probably only had this year left in him and Covid happened anyway so I wasn't temped to play 'one more tune'.
It's a bit younger than I was hoping to retire him, but that's life.
He also does helper training but have to be careful with him as he's more prone to injury.

They soon forget things though ?

 

[Clodagh]

OP, you have said before that your dogs are primarily pets, so I'm not sure that it is a hard decision really, unless Tawny will fret if left at home when other dogs are taken shooting. Either way, it is obvious from what you have said that it is time to retire her, before she gets seriously injured

Yes and tbh I wouldn’t be mentioning it on here if I hadn’t decided but it is interesting to see others experiences.
She sulks for England and will certainly fret if left at home, but will hopefully adjust.

 

[Clodagh]

One got too trial-wise/started going out of control in competitions and the other one can't jump and is unreliable in tracking.

Ironically the mental one has retired much better, lots of people have assumed he'll self-harm/become destructive etc etc but he's happy out.
Still fit as a fiddle and plenty of energy, tried agility but got bored easily and deliberately knocked poles so he could run around with them in his mouth and also tried to eat the weaves.
I did do an experiment when he was 7 or 8 where I did nothing with him for a year to see if his expectation level would drop and then trialled him but it didn't work.
He's trained up a lot of young helpers and hopefully will continue to do so.
One of the guys I train met us in the park and couldn't believe it was the same dog poddling along beside me, he normally just sees a blur of hair and teeth and spit and anger ?

The other one is just a more sensitive soul generally, misses the lifestyle, is hard to keep sound, eats himself but he was six when I got him and I'm not going to break him over the hurdle at his age, nor am I going to drive 1.4k for him to decide he's not really feeling like tracking today ? he probably only had this year left in him and Covid happened anyway so I wasn't temped to play 'one more tune'.
It's a bit younger than I was hoping to retire him, but that's life.
He also does helper training but have to be careful with him as he's more prone to injury.

They soon forget things though ?

That’s interesting. T just sulks if put out, I don’t think she would become destructive but I hate leaving her behind as she is so miserable.
She loves training but can’t even do that for very long as she exhausts herself looking for dummies on grass. She’s a short fat dog with a racehorse brain.

 

[GSD Woman]

Oh, I've gone through this with Rudy. I take it as it comes. Of course right now both dogs are on an unintended lay off. We'll all get back in shape together and slowly. Rudy just turned ten this month and I know the time will come. He is trained so he just some practice to keep his paw in. When he can't trial we'll still take classes and maybe work on variable surface tracking. He gets that he'll be an AKC champion tracker.

 

[druid]

Can you bring her and only do one drive with her? Or send her for marked retrieves but no sweeping? I often get them out later on as donkeys for young trial prospects so they think they're getting to work but are limited in what they're doing. That's how my oldies step down - when they can't work anymore they become a sofa dog either with us or a friend/family who has usually been waiting a long time to inherit a fully trained spaniel! If they're stiff or sore the next day that's when I start the slow down

 

[Clodagh]

Oh, I've gone through this with Rudy. I take it as it comes. Of course right now both dogs are on an unintended lay off. We'll all get back in shape together and slowly. Rudy just turned ten this month and I know the time will come. He is trained so he just some practice to keep his paw in. When he can't trial we'll still take classes and maybe work on variable surface tracking. He gets that he'll be an AKC champion tracker.

Do you do the same sport as CC?

 

[Clodagh]

Can you bring her and only do one drive with her? Or send her for marked retrieves but no sweeping? I often get them out later on as donkeys for young trial prospects so they think they're getting to work but are limited in what they're doing. That's how my oldies step down - when they can't work anymore they become a sofa dog either with us or a friend/family who has usually been waiting a long time to inherit a fully trained spaniel! If they're stiff or sore the next day that's when I start the slow down

She’s a cripple the day after. ?.
We are often parked near roads so if you take them they have to do every drive, I can try to pace her better but i think really she will become a sofa surfer.
If my OH or son are shooting she can sit on the peg, that’s a bit easier.

 

[blackcob]

When they were still giving their all but paying for it the next day - subtle but present stiffness on rising, couple of pottery steps etc. This was earlier for racing (8) than it was for agility (just shy of 10) but we benefitted from a height change rule for the latter that gave dog #1 a last good season.

One thing I wasn't prepared for was that when out of work they suddenly seemed to age much more rapidly. ?

 

[CorvusCorax]

That’s interesting. T just sulks if put out, I don’t think she would become destructive but I hate leaving her behind as she is so miserable.
She loves training but can’t even do that for very long as she exhausts herself looking for dummies on grass. She’s a short fat dog with a racehorse brain.

It's one thing I'm glad that I accidentally trained...just take them places in the car sometimes and not necessarily get out or if they do, just to stretch legs and clean themselves.
Even just to the supermarket and back.
Going somewhere doesn't mean = always exciting stuff.
Obviously if they hear another dog doing something super fun, they get a bit het up, but they live.
Good for travelling and big comps.

 

[SAujla]

Once the idea is in your head I think it's better to follow it and retire her. Just because if she then does get seriously injured you'll never forgive yourself because you'd thought about retiring her. She's got no interest in self-preservation so you'll have to do it for her.

 

[druid]

She’s a cripple the day after. ?.
We are often parked near roads so if you take them they have to do every drive, I can try to pace her better but i think really she will become a sofa surfer.
If my OH or son are shooting she can sit on the peg, that’s a bit easier.

Sounds like it might be time to be a peg dog only. Or bring her but keep her on a lead/at heel. Is she on a joint supplement? It might help.

 

[CorvusCorax]

One thing I wasn't prepared for was that when out of work they suddenly seemed to age much more rapidly. ?

Yep I'm shocked at how much my younger dog has aged

 

[GSD Woman]

Clodagh, no we do AKC stuff. The thing that CC does is hard and expensive where I live, remember I'm the American version of a veterinary nurse and don't make squat.

 

[gunnergundog]

I have HPRs, so different to yours. I have some in kennels and a couple in the house. The house is where the pups start off and the oldies retire to. Some of my oldies retire to rough shooting with local farmers or just do dogging in on shoots. I find that my dogs that have worked on the moors need a job mentally to stop/abate the age deterioration. Use it or lose it? I think that applies mentally as much as physically. It's very hard....or at least I find it so.....if I need to move a dog on if I can't best serve its needs.

 

[GSD Woman]

Clodagh, have you thought about something like carprofen on the days you go out? Freddie beats the hell out of Rudy on some of our walks and I'll occasionally give a dose of carprofen that evening. It seems to help.

 

[gunnergundog]

Carprofen is what is more commonly referred to as Rimadyl over here.

Cartrophen may be another alternative, dependent on what the core problem is - it is one solution that I have used successfully several times. I hasten to add, though, that I adopt a 'natural' approach with my dogs: no unnecessary chemicals = puppy vacs and first year booster only - thereafter titre testing; twice yearly faecal worm testing and treating as appropriate/only if necessary and many go YEARS without; flea treatment only if fleas found. Raw species appropriate diet. Good physical exertion plus mental stimulation.

Having said all that my vet gives me a large quantity of bute for 'judicious' use after hunting (in normal pre-covid times) as I see fit for one of my nags.

You can only do what you feel is best for the dog in front of you.

 

[Clodagh]

Sounds like it might be time to be a peg dog only. Or bring her but keep her on a lead/at heel. Is she on a joint supplement? It might help.

She’s on riaflex and has canidryl (spell?) after shooting and the next day. It’s more her feet, she is hare footed and they crack.

 

[Clodagh]

When they were still giving their all but paying for it the next day - subtle but present stiffness on rising, couple of pottery steps etc. This was earlier for racing (8) than it was for agility (just shy of 10) but we benefitted from a height change rule for the latter that gave dog #1 a last good season.

One thing I wasn't prepared for was that when out of work they suddenly seemed to age much more rapidly. ?

That’s a horrible thought. She looks much older than her non working sister anyway as all the scars on her face have grown white hairs.

 

[Clodagh]

I have HPRs, so different to yours. I have some in kennels and a couple in the house. The house is where the pups start off and the oldies retire to. Some of my oldies retire to rough shooting with local farmers or just do dogging in on shoots. I find that my dogs that have worked on the moors need a job mentally to stop/abate the age deterioration. Use it or lose it? I think that applies mentally as much as physically. It's very hard....or at least I find it so.....if I need to move a dog on if I can't best serve its needs.

She can still dog in, but you need to watch her on summer days as she gets heat exhaustion.
Even if you take her for a swim she over heats as she obsessively swims as fast as possible trying to catch her splashes. ?

 

[Clodagh]

Carprofen is what is more commonly referred to as Rimadyl over here.

Cartrophen may be another alternative, dependent on what the core problem is - it is one solution that I have used successfully several times. I hasten to add, though, that I adopt a 'natural' approach with my dogs: no unnecessary chemicals = puppy vacs and first year booster only - thereafter titre testing; twice yearly faecal worm testing and treating as appropriate/only if necessary and many go YEARS without; flea treatment only if fleas found. Raw species appropriate diet. Good physical exertion plus mental stimulation.

Having said all that my vet gives me a large quantity of bute for 'judicious' use after hunting (in normal pre-covid times) as I see fit for one of my nags.

You can only do what you feel is best for the dog in front of you.

It’s more the major injuries. She has, on separate occasions, impaled her stifle and continued to work all day.
Her vets bills are astounding.
I don’t think I can keep putting her through it!

 

[druid]

She’s on riaflex and has canidryl (spell?) after shooting and the next day. It’s more her feet, she is hare footed and they crack.

Ah, you're unlikely to be able to do much about crap feet except avoid the lines in the future. I'm sure she will love sofa surfing

 

[gunnergundog]

If they won't manage themselves then you have to but so that they think that it's coming from them...their idea.

 

[blackcob]

That’s a horrible thought. She looks much older than her non working sister anyway as all the scars on her face have grown white hairs.

It is sad, and with the benefit of hindsight I would have retired them earlier but tried to keep them at a higher level of fitness for longer. As it was it felt quite a sudden decline. Hard to do if they can't be sensible though! I don't know enough about working gundogs to suggest where the compromise might lie, unfortunately.

 

[twiggy2]

Its tricky we have a working collie who is 14 or 15 (other half is not sure!) As a general rule he declines work unless is technical things like loading sheep into a trailer in an open field, he likes to work the tups/rams and he still likes to catch. If he doesn't want to work he doesn't and he ignores you and does what he wants. He is very rarely asked if he would like to work and does get to choose. He has been lame the last 2 days which is very unlike him but was not so bad today after not running and playing with the other dogs as normal.
We have a bitch who is 11 or 12 she lives to work, woofs her head off in the kennels and will get away from me to work for my other half is she hears him working a dog, she is full on and runs herself so hard, she is lame half an hour after stopping but fine the next day, she is being worked less and less and doesn't like that idea.
Its difficult to know what to do for the best sometimes they can be so different.