Retraining Kallie the ex-racehorse - advice please on flatwork (videos).

K

kit279

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 January 2008
Messages
3,612
Visit site
My black ex-racehorse, Kaldouas, came out of training about a year ago - he is a big horse and it has been hard to keep weight on him so that was pretty much the aim of last year and he has done a little bit of everything to get him happy and relaxed.

Photo0198.jpg


Photo0202.jpg


Photo0200.jpg


I would like to bring him home for the summer before I head off on the road again for work and I'd like to use the time to try and improve his flatwork. He has a few habits that are difficult - he finds it easy to come round but it's rare that I feel like he takes the rein from you in a good contact and he doesn't really stretch out and down into the bit, if that makes sense. He will also yaw a bit when he gets tired. He is just a little too light in the hand - you never really feel like there is a proper contact. He is a very tall rangy National Hunt bred horse and has not yet got enough muscle to be totally balanced, although he is better all the time and the stronger he gets the easier he finds things. His canter is probably his strongest point but he finds the trot harder.

Here he is being ridden by an event rider (not me!) at his first ODE:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Dgyq6i8NI

That's not the best he can go, nor the worst but hopefully it shows the things that need working on - in fairness to Kal, there was a lot going on, it was his first outing ever and I was just really pleased that he didn't go to pieces thinking he was going to have to race.

If anyone would like to give me some pointers about how best to improve this horse, I will be most grateful. Do you think he will improve in the contact as he gets stronger or is this something that can be helped along and if so how?
 
He is a very similar stamp and mover to Soap. Soap is very light in the hand too, I worked on lots of long and low work on the stretch, but still with a contact, getting him to go towards it and not just back off and 'look pretty but not be engaged' then when he had got to terms with working on the stretch I would gradually start to pick him up and almost trick him into keeping the heavier contact in a more uphill frame. My instructor was quite clear when she explained to me that a young novice horse needs to work into what might feel like a heavy contact because you are generating the energy from behind it needs to go somewhere, and that's into the hand then as they learn, get stronger, they will lighten up as they start to gain better cadence and self carriage.

Hope that helps?....
 
I really like this horse,he will be quite special when he matures.

Firstly I want to say you are very brave posting a video!!!!

When we first had Floss she wouldn't take a contact forward and down, she tended to sit just behing the bit and threw her head up and called the RSPCA if you touched her mouth. She had found her own way of coping with the problem (not helped by her previous rider thinking she had her in a french link that was actually a Dr Bristol.

We went right back to basics and put her in a Nathe. Eventually she learned that she could use a contact and go forward into it without worrying (she is VERY sensitive).

She is now in a verbindend http://www.horsebithire.com/neue-schule-verbindend-16 that she seems to like (for now). She seems able to maintain a contact and is getting a bit more off her forehand. The downside of the nathe was that she did get a bit dead and heavy in it.
 
He's got such a lovely wise looking head :) He is big and rangy and therefore a bit weak in parts. Flatwork will be such a different way of working for him and he will tire easily. I'd try and do a little bit each day and keep it short and sweet. One thing I think I would include in your regime is lunging over poles. My massage lady swears by fan poles for softening the back and encouraging them to take a bigger step behind. Once used to them you can raise alternate ends - this is hard work so short sessions whilst he strengthens. There is a lot of power there just waiting to be developed - I like him :D
 
He's a really nice type, and being ridden beautifully in the video. But........ its no good worrying about the contact as his "engine" isn't working at all. I imagine you've had him looked over by a good back person/physio? He's not tracking up at all, and I feel that he's actually dropping the nearside hip a little, certainly that hind leg is worse than the other one.
I do a lot of longreining with mine, so I can see whether its a horse problem, or the weight of the rider which is causing this. If he didn't make the grade as a racehorse, then he's been going like this for some time, and the muscles will have to be retrained. One thing that can help a lot, is a neuro muscle stimulator. It builds up the muscles by placing electrodes at each end. I've used it very successfully for badly wasted muscles (which he doesn't seem to have on the confo shots). I have one here, which is redundant at the moment, and would be happy to lend it to you. PM if you want details. Hope you don't think I'm "having a go" as from your previous posts you obviously know your stuff, but all this nonsense about bits gets me going, as the horse MUST use himself properly first.
 
He is really lovely & I agree your brave putting a vid on here.

I have had similar problems with my Iberian he loves to drop the contact. I noticed in the vid that your boy is not really bending & look like the right rein is better for bend than the left.
I would not be making him speed up at all I would work him in the rhythm he is in on the vid.
Lot's of circle work where you really push from the inside leg, with the inside hand open a bit more. Getting him to push his ribs over, then into lots of leg yield spirals. All the time really pushing him through to the contact.

Also Letting him stretch then picking him back up again whilst maintaining the rhythm.

The above has worked wonders for mine.
He's going to be super.
 
I think for his first time out he did really really well. No, it's not a perfect picture but he reminds me v much of my old boy. Like Chloe we worked on lots of long and low building up the topline so he had the strength to carry himself a bit more upright. That power to move forward and become more elevated then came with time.
 
How you describe him not taking the rein down and forward and feeling light is exactly how my little ex-racer felt for a long time when I first had him (16 months ago) As he has got fitter and developed more of the right muscles I can now feel him in my hand and he is going really well.

It just takes time for them to build up different muscles for their new job and if you dont rush him he will soon learn how you want him to go.
 
:( I did wonder a little bit - the plan is to have the back chap lookat him.

Could you maybe cast your eye over these?

This is the first time ridden, trying him at his racing yard:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SrlCoybopA

And this is me having a lesson on him (faults galore) a few weeks after he came to me:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDCNw3iClCg&feature=related

I'm just curious as to whether this is a new onset thing as I think he has maybe been a little stiffer than before and I'm wondering whether to bring him home and turn him out 24/7, as he is stabled quite a lot at his current yard.
 
He certainly looks ok in the first video, although it's not too clear and the horse is a long way off, in the second one of you schooling him at home, he definately look a lot freeer in his stride, although I can still see a slight catching/snatching off the off hind. But have to say that in both these videos he is being ridden much more freely forward around a large school with his head much more up (although hasten to add not too up), so I think in the test situation with needing him 'on the bit' and quick movements in a small area he found it more difficult. This probably affected him behind (not balanced) so took dinky strides.

I would though have back and hind legs checked just to be on the safe side.

Lovely boy.
 
I have seen some videos of him steeplechasing!

And I agree with the above, he looks as though he is coming along very well, but lame.
 
A very QR (not time to look at vids sorry :() - have you tried him in any other bits? My ex NH horse started in a nathe straight bar, then moved to a fulmer KK when he started to be a bit gawpy / ignorant in the nathe - and has become fairly secure in the contact now. In my v limited experience loose rings can move about a bit more than you'd like them to, and giving them security with a bit which moves less can help... Just a thought. :)
 
Lovely horse.......

To me he looks tense (which TBs are sooo good at being!!!), which is completely understandable if he is at his first ODE, his back is tight and he is not going forward, this makes him look unlevel. Í would certainly get him looked at by a back man, and if you have the funds get a massage therapist to look him over on a regular basis, they could also show you some stretches and massage moves to do on him when he is at shows to help relax him. If you can have him at home where he gets more down time then that would, IMO, do him the world of good also.

I do love TBs, i heard a saying the other day which made me giggle......
"they can hear a fish fart from 50foot", and it is soo true. :D
 
I was having a chat with his rider - she doesn't think he's lame behind but maybe a bit tense on the day in the arena and she didn't want to push him, just to wagon him round in a calm non-stressful way. I'll drag my long suffering vet out of retirement next week to give him the once over none-the-less - fingers crossed.
 
IMO your rider did the right thing by the horse, from the vid you can see she is keeping him as quiet as possible and not pushing him.

Good luck with the vet and best of luck in the future with him:)
 
Lunging....lunging & then some more lunging, he's lovely, just the sort of old fashioned stamp I like, because these horses are so long and big, & are built (& trained) for accelerating over a longish distance, coming short & round is hard on their bodies (& brains) so, i've always done alot of lunging with mine, using either a pessoa or 2 sets of side reins, or a de gogue if the mood takes me, to encourage them to step under themselves & use thier back, without the weight of a rider, once they develop strength across thier back, they become softer, can carry a rider more easily & become easier to ride into a contact, its all about getting the back soft enough to allow the engine to connect in a short frame (short for them) this should also help lose the impression of un-level behind, as once his back becomes stronger, he'll be more able to engage & subsequently move forwards,

So, if i was you, & looking at the stood up pics, i'd spend time this summer, developing his strength across his back, lots of lunging, transitions, lunged & ridden, gymnastic jumping exercises to encourage him to shorten his frame & so on!

Lovely lovely horse
 
racingdemon said:
Lunging....lunging & then some more lunging, he's lovely, just the sort of old fashioned stamp I like, because these horses are so long and big, & are built (& trained) for accelerating over a longish distance, coming short & round is hard on their bodies (& brains) so, i've always done alot of lunging with mine, using either a pessoa or 2 sets of side reins, or a de gogue if the mood takes me, to encourage them to step under themselves & use thier back, without the weight of a rider, once they develop strength across thier back, they become softer, can carry a rider more easily & become easier to ride into a contact, its all about getting the back soft enough to allow the engine to connect in a short frame (short for them) this should also help lose the impression of un-level behind, as once his back becomes stronger, he'll be more able to engage & subsequently move forwards,

So, if i was you, & looking at the stood up pics, i'd spend time this summer, developing his strength across his back, lots of lunging, transitions, lunged & ridden, gymnastic jumping exercises to encourage him to shorten his frame & so on!

Lovely lovely horse
Click to expand...

Excellent post !


S x
 
I wouldnt worry too much- tense horses like this can and do look short behind- especially ones that sit behind the bit and draw in the neck, which has the result of shutting down their movement over the back and therefore the movement becomes restricted and short behind.

But I will say that he has obviously been using himself like this for a long time and was established in this way of going when you bought him- which WILL mean that his back and hindquarter muscles will have developed into being short and tight, most probably spasmodic- so I would get his back and sacroilliac muscles H-waved to release the spasm and tightness there which will help his back end to move more loosely, then he'll be better laterally as well.

Then lots of walking out up and down hills on a long rein to get him to really walk out working over his back into a contact on a long rein. Lots of long and low work in the school on a circle - walk, trot and canter getting him to stretch his neck right down and out into a contact, with flexions either side whenever he braces, then going large and making sure he is perfectly straight from the hindquarter through to the shoulders. 4-6 weeks of that work should sort him.
 
I also do not think lame just not working truly forwards into the contact. I think a positive programme of hillwork, lunging and schooling will have him looking super smart very soon. I absolutely love him and he is my absolute ideal for the perfect eventer.
 
This is my boy, he came out of training about 4 months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Zoebbz05#p/u/6/RqpSVbzZPPU

Like yours, he has a tendancy to look pretty and hold himself behind the saddle giving the impression he is unlevel. However, he is not. I have spent a lot of time long reining and lunging him and doing lots of pole work both long reining and under saddle. I have also been doing lots of hacking and hill work and it has made a huge difference.
When riding on the flat I encourage him to work in a slow balanced way to enable him to stretch down and use his back more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top