Returning Prickly Livery Issues and a little rant...

[Flicker]

I posted a little while about the issue of a new livery who came to the yard, left for 6 months after slagging the place off to anyone who'd listen, and then returned. She was meant to be turning her horse out in 'my' field, but after 2 weeks still hadn't, and also blanked me whenever she saw me:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=393046

Well, I heard from one of the yard staff that the horse was definitely not going out and that this woman was putting it in a tiny turn-out pen while she mucked out and that was his turnout for the day. So I took the HHO famous advice and took the high road and made a point of saying to her that she was welcome to the field anytime my lad wasn't in it (he is only out in the field in the mornings) and she actually said that afternoons suited her best for turnout, so I thought everything was good after that.

Anyway, a week or so on and the horse is still not out. I understand from other liveries that he's quite lame and she has said she won't be turning him out until he's sound. From the sound of it, that is not going to be for quite some time, maybe a couple of weeks.

There is way too much grass in my field for one horse and the shape and size of it do not make it easy or safe to fence off to strip graze (and the water feeder is at opposite end to the gate..). In the past, my friends would just move their two horses in for a week or so to crop off the worst of the growth, and give their own field time to rest and be poo-picked etc.

Can you see what's coming... This last weekend, we decided to do this again and my friend casually mentioned to my field 'partner' that her horses were in my field. Anyway, this woman started making lots of really snide remarks and then decided that her horse MUST be out on Sunday afternoon so my friend couldn't turn out in my field on Sunday. Of course, the horse did not go out on Sunday afternoon, the woman just said he was going out because she didn't want my friend's horses in the field. She also told my friend that she wanted to rest the field for winter (since she's never even been down to see the field, I am confused as to how she knows whether the field would need resting or not). My friend has told me that she feels really uncomfortable putting her horses out in my field now, because this woman keeps making comments, so they've gone back in their own field.

So now I'm in a situation where I've got one horse in a field with too much grass, but can't get it cropped down because the woman who's supposed to be sharing it won't put her horse in there, but won't tolerate anyone else's horses going in there either. I cannot believe that one person has managed to effect such control over a situation. Hopefully, I can see this woman over the weekend and ask her what her turnout plans are for the future, but I'm not holding my breath for a straight answer.

Just wanted a little rant, as I'm a bit frustrated. And breathe...

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

Speak to the YM/YO to get it straightened out.

If you can't to that for any reason then you need to be quite firm with your field partner, but politely so of course.

Out of interest, why can't you split the field? If the trough is the only issue, put a couple of tub trugs in for the water.

 

[wellsat]

How much do you need this livery? I think I'd be asking her to leave. People that think they own the place and are b****y with it are the worst sort of liveries.

 

[AmyMay]

Your yard sounds like a really odd place (moving horses willy nilly around fields).

Anyway - stick a muzzle on your horse, that will help. And obviously this woman has a right to turn her horse out whenever she wants in to the field allocated to her.

I can't quite see what the issue is.

 

[DipseyDeb]

TBH I would ignore her and convince your friend to turn her horses out, she sounds like a control fresk who likes things done her way, and what does the yard owner say about all this??

 

[Flicker]

Your yard sounds like a really odd place (moving horses willy nilly around fields).

Anyway - stick a muzzle on your horse, that will help. And obviously this woman has a right to turn her horse out whenever she wants in to the field allocated to her.

I can't quite see what the issue is.

Not really the issue re: moving horses around - my post was about this woman's attitude.
I am not 'sticking a muzzle' on my horse - they rub, are uncomfortable and he would be miserable. And why should I when I've had a perfectly good system for field management up to now?
Yes, she has a right to turn out or not, but not to play dog in the manger with a facility that she quite clearly has no intention of using.

 

[Flicker]

Speak to the YM/YO to get it straightened out.

If you can't to that for any reason then you need to be quite firm with your field partner, but politely so of course.

Out of interest, why can't you split the field? If the trough is the only issue, put a couple of tub trugs in for the water.

The field is a funny shape with lots of angles and corners, not square. It would mean fencing off small areas and my chap occasionally likes a blast when he goes out. To be honest, he's not the sharpest tool in the box and I would not be confident that he would actually respect the barrier created by an electric fence. Images of him coming in wearing still clicking fence tape and posts spring to mind... lol.

 

[Kat]

As said before talk to the YM, the clue is in the name - Yard MANAGER it is their job to sort this sort of thing out.

Maybe this turnout arrangement won't work, maybe it will but it isn't your job to sort it. Leave it with the YM.

 

[AmyMay]

Not really the issue re: moving horses around - my post was about this woman's attitude.
I am not 'sticking a muzzle' on my horse - they rub, are uncomfortable and he would be miserable. And why should I when I've had a perfectly good system for field management up to now?
Yes, she has a right to turn out or not, but not to play dog in the manger with a facility that she quite clearly has no intention of using.

I think you are only seeing things from one point of view. Yours.

Muzzles - buy the right sort and they work, fit well and will save a horses life.

Field Management - if I moved to a yard, was allocated a field, but did not know what horse on a daily basis would be in there, I too would have an attitude. If her horse is lame, then she may not be able to use the facillities. But that doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to know that if she chooses to put her horse in there for a leg stretch and a bit of Dr Green - he will not meet horses he doesn't know, or who are not it's actual field mates.

It's also nothing to do with you whether she decides to turn it out or not. She can do what she wishes with her horse, and for you to think you can even begin to dictate to her turnout times is just astounding.

The yard sounds very badly run, and certainly not what most would expect from a well organised and professional establishment. The yard owner or manager should allocate the field and that's that. To be moving horses between fields on a whim is just madness and can cause all sorts of problems.

 

[Flicker]

I think you are only seeing things from one point of view. Yours.

Muzzles - buy the right sort and they work, fit well and will save a horses life.

Field Management - if I moved to a yard, was allocated a field, but did not know what horse on a daily basis would be in there, I too would have an attitude. If her horse is lame, then she may not be able to use the facillities. But that doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to know that if she chooses to put her horse in there for a leg stretch and a bit of Dr Green - he will not meet horses he doesn't know, or who are not it's actual field mates.

It's also nothing to do with you whether she decides to turn it out or not. She can do what she wishes with her horse, and for you to think you can even begin to dictate to her turnout times is just astounding.

The yard sounds very badly run, and certainly not what most would expect from a well organised and professional establishment. The yard owner or manager should allocate the field and that's that. To be moving horses between fields on a whim is just madness and can cause all sorts of problems.

Actually, I think you are only seeing the situation from your perspective and probably haven't taken the time to read through everything that I've written.

Despite being here over 4 weeks and having ample opportunity to put her horse out pretty much whenever she wants in a 24 hour period (save for a few hours in the morning when my horse is out) this woman has consistently chosen to keep her horse in.
I have approached her and basically offered her free run of the field whenever she wants.
She is welcome to turn her horse out with mine, but my horse is known to be aggressive in the field and she said that she doesn't want them out together.
The only reason my friends put their horses out was because they had heard from this woman herself that her horse was not going out for some time. My friends are very responsible and would never, never create a situation where any horses were going out together that had not been out before. One or another of them is at the yard pretty much all day, so it would be a five minute job to whip the horses into their old field if she wanted to use it.
Our yard is incredibly well run and we all work together as colleagues to ensure our horses have whatever they need - hence we are all flexible and help each other out.

I have been nothing but accommodating to this woman, I cannot see what else I can do to facilitate her requirements.

I am sure that once I have a word with our YM she will probably be able to make a plan. However, I would have preferred to have worked it out with this woman first, without 'telling tales' to a YM who probably has bigger issues to worry about.

 

[Flicker]

As said before talk to the YM, the clue is in the name - Yard MANAGER it is their job to sort this sort of thing out.

Maybe this turnout arrangement won't work, maybe it will but it isn't your job to sort it. Leave it with the YM.

I know, I probably should. However, as I've said above, I don't like to be 'telling tales' and was hoping the situation would resolve itself.

 

[AmyMay]

I have been nothing but accommodating to this woman, I cannot see what else I can do to facilitate her requirements.

It's her right to turn her horse out or not in the field she has been allocated, and has nothing to do with wether you are accomodating or not.

The advantages of a well managed yard is that this sort of situation would never arise.

Sorry, but I'm not suprised she left, and am amazed she returned. It all sounds bonkers.

......... YM who probably has bigger issues to worry about.

This is a pretty major issue I would say. The safety of horses when turned out together.

 

[Flicker]

It's her right to turn her horse out or not in the field she has been allocated, and has nothing to do with wether you are accomodating or not.

The advantages of a well managed yard is that this sort of situation would never arise.

Sorry, but I'm not suprised she left, and am amazed she returned. It all sounds bonkers.



This is a pretty major issue I would say. The safety of horses when turned out together.

Think you are missing the point about the original post, but never mind...

 

[Kat]

Perhaps she has been advised to keep her horse in if it is lame, or is worried about it hooning around if she puts it out..... doesn't mean she is choosing to keep her horse in.

There is an awful lot of assuming going on and not much talking.

I can see why you asked your friend to turn out, but imagine how this looks to the lady who is sharing your field. At the very least I bet she's worried there will be no grass left when she can turn out again.

Talk to the YM, it isn't telling tales, you are simply asking her to manage the situation because it doesn't seem to be working. If you don't approach it as complaining about this other livery then no one will think you are telling tales. Just say that you are concerned that the field share isn't working for either of you and you don't want it to cause problems.

 

[AmyMay]

Think you are missing the point about the original post, but never mind...

No, I absolutely get the point of your original post.

As a solution to your problem - why not simply ask to move fields. That way your horse has company and is a field with less grass.

It also means you don't have to worry about what the other woman is doing.

 

[Cadfael&Coffee]

if it is mainly the grass which you are worried about, i would approach the woman directly, and ask her if you can turn the other 2 out in the afternoon on set days, and that if she ever wants to turn hers out on those days, just to ask one of the 2 who are always there to move their horses back.

if you all talk to each other, there is no reason why you can't work this out amicably, but without communication (which this sounds like a perfect example of) of course you're going to get p****d off. so's she- she probably thinks that you're deliberately making life difficult for her, so she's being stubborn.

communication!!!!!!

 

[spaniel]

Electric tape, posts, water bucket, get over yourself. Its absolutely nothing to do with you where or when other liveries turn out and I have read your post three times now and STILL cannot see what you are so concerned about. You will be glad of all that grass when winter comes.

 

[Kenzo]

Hopefully, I can see this woman over the weekend and ask her what her turnout plans are for the future, but I'm not holding my breath for a straight answer.

I can understand if she's done this in a bit of an awkward way but some people are like that.

I can also see that she might not want other liveries eating off the grass which has been allocated to her (and your horse) therefore decided to just say she was putting her horse out that day, rather than saying to your friend, don't put your horses in there because a) it's not your paddock b) I don't want my horses mixing where others have grazed c) I don't want it over grazed....etc etc and being new back to the yard she may of felt uncomfortable saying this to your friend.

I think just having a good chat with her will straighten things out, best off just airing your views in a polite way to the lady concerned and mentioning it to your YO, really your YO should of explained or asked the lady about the other livery's horses going in, this way it none of this would of propped up.

I think sometimes liveries don't want to hassle their YO's with problems but unless you do, you get chinese whispers and moutains made out of mole hills, end of the day your all paying for a service and want harmony on the yard, it's your YO's job to provide that, so go hassle em!

 

[siennamum]

I feel for you. The woman sounds a right pain.

I would try fencing off a part of your field & see how your horse is with the fencing. Most of ours are very respectful of the electric fence and it works really well. You should be able to save some of the grass for Winter and ensure yours doesn't get too fat. I would disregard your field sharer if she hasn't the sense to speak to you about her preferences. Maybe it will spur her into action.

I also hate grazing muzzles and won't use them tbh. Would rather strip graze and bring them in off the grass for part of the day.

 

[Rose Folly]

I aabsolutely see where Flicker is coming from. The arrangement has been for this field to be a shared field. There is too much grass. The other woman is not sticking to her part of the agreement which is, basically, to provide another grazer to keep the field down. If she's unable to put her horse out for whatever reason, fair enough, but she should have the common courtesy to explain to you that Neddy won't be able to go out for 3 weeks or whatever, thereby leaving you the option to invite your friends' horses to graze it until Neddy is allowed out.

Thank HEAVEN my horses aren't on a yard. And I hope you can sort things out.

 

[galaxy]

If she's talking about resting the feild too, maybe the reason she doesn't want the other horses in there is because she wants her horse to have plenty of grass when it has recoevered from its lameness? Therefore doesn't want other horses eating it down.

This may not suit you, and therefore not a conpatible person to field share with, but it is perfectly possible and reasonable.

I am also surprised the YM tolerates the liveries deciding which fields they go in and when.... It's not a good idea for field and livery managemtn.

 

[SusieT]

TBH-your doing it again where 'other liveries say'.
Why not go ask her? If your lad is only out mornings I can't see there being that much grass that will affect him in a few hours a day..
She has a lame horse now apparantly-do you think maybe just maybe she's stressed about that and knows you lot are bitching about her. If it's 'your' shared field then why would other (potentially wormy..) horses go out in it?
Who's to say her horse wasn't sound then lame again preventing turnout?
YO/YM situation, sounds to me like your peeved you can't control your field anymore.
I don't believe this woman DID make any agreement with you to graze the field down did she? Maybe there isn't enough grass for her liking?
All these things you have no idea as you don't speak to her (and obviously others do since 'they' know all these things.. or are they just making it up??)

 

[kizzywiz]

We are allocated grazing at our yard too & it is up to us how we manage it. I share with another lady, we have fenced the field in 2 which we did together having agreed on where the fence should go, my 2 go in one side, her mare goes in the other. Other lady has the trough so I bought a hose & a portable trough & it just fills itself on a trickle feed from the tap. It is a big field & a long stretch of fencing to do, but it works fine, we use my fencing & her battery & ticker. Can you not discuss with the lady her requirements & simply work together, I can bet that Andrea who I share with would be a bit peeved if I suddenly invited other liveries onto her grass, as would I be if I came home from an away show & found someone in my allocated field!

 

[ISHmad]

Your YM or YO should be dealing with this. I know I probably sound like a stuck record as this is what I said before. But that is what they are paid for at the end of the day, to manage the yard for horses and clients!

 

[ossy]

Its post like this that reminds me why I am on a very small full livery only yard! Our yard owner allocates our horses fields and rotates/fences off as and when horses require it, we do not get to just move our horses around, we can chat to her if we are unhappy and she will do her best to resolve it. She has also had some of her fields topped this summer to maintain a good coverage of grass. This I feel is good field management.

Although this other livery seems to have a bit of a communication issue/attitude, I do tend to agree with what some others have said that dosne't seem to have gone down well. If I had been allocated a field, had to keep my horse in becasue it was lame and then found other horses in it i don't think i would be very happy either, she may be happy with the level of grass that is in the field, especially if this field is allocated to you for all year round. Now you have a field sharer you can not expect to still do the same things in the field as you did when you didn't have one. It may be this field share is not a suitable combination and it should be your YO/YM to sort the situation out for you, it is not telling tails if you approch it in a mature maner and explain clearly your concerns about the level of grass in your field, not the fact you have issue with this other liveries attitute.

 

[SVMel]

I have to agree with those that have said it's up to her whether she turns out or not. You have both been allocated this field. You both have the right to use it for your own horses at suitable times. You in the morning, she in the afternoon. If she chooses not to turn out for WHATEVER reason, that's up to her.

If you didn't turn out one morning, would you expect her to go about moaning about how inconsiderate you are.

Its not just your field, it BOTH of yours. I'm assuming she doesn't tell you what to do with your horse. Just stick to what you've agreed between you, I find making an agreement over times you use it and sticking to it usually leads to a happy existence for all, and COMMUNICATE if something changes.

 

[mytwofriends]

I've witnessed so many situations which would not have blown out of control if it had been for simple communication.

This is one such situation. It's all based on assumption, and without a good old chat, no-one's going to be any the wiser.

I agree with others, that as long as you are keeping your part of the deal, ie. keeping your horse in the allocated field for the allotted period of time, then anything else really isn't your concern. It's the concern of the YM/YO - are they easily approached (I know of some that aren't, which is a whole other story!).

Hope you get yourself sorted out.

 

[Sarah1]

One or another of them is at the yard pretty much all day, so it would be a five minute job to whip the horses into their old field if she wanted to use it

What about poo picking? Would that be done before her horse was turned out where your friends horses had been?

I agree she sounds a bit awkward but as others have said I can't really see why you're so upset by her 'attitude'. And I have read your posts thoroughly.

 

[Kat]

Flicker it is beginning to sound as though you made your mind up about this woman before she arrived on the yard based upon the idle tittle tattle of other liveries. Now she is here you are determined that she will live up to all the pre-judgements you made. Whatever she did would not be right by the sounds of it.

I feel very sorry for her. You are basically b*tching about her behind her back and giving her no opportunity to put her side accross. Can't you see how unfair you are being?

This is exactly the sort of behaviour that makes some livery yards unbearable places to be.

Think it through, reverse the positions, how would you feel if you found strange horses in the field that you thought was yours eating the grass you want there for winter???? Pretty peeved I would have thought.

Talk to the poor woman like a human being. Find out what her plans are, if they are incompatible ask the YM if one of you can move to a different field.

And don't believe every word other liveries say as if it is gospel, how do you know she hasn't seen the field? You haven't asked her!

Honestly you are behaving like a child in the playground with all this he said she said rubbish.

 

[Flicker]

Hi all

Right, I can see everyone's point about my field sharer being within her rights to turn out whenever she wants. Totally agree with that. But if the horse is not going out, and hasn't been going out for the past 4 weeks, even though it's only recently been lame, I am starting to wonder if she's ever planning on putting it out. He's not been out once since she arrived.

Yes, perhaps I could have approached her myself and explained that, as her horse was going to be in for some time, my friends would be using the field for a bit while they were poo-picking theirs. To be honest though, she's not an easy person to speak to and also the times that she's on the yard don't correspond with mine but they do with my friends who are grazing the field. And I honestly thought that, as she wasn't turning out, she wouldn't mind other horses being in there. I'm not talking about grazing the field barren, just taking the worst of it off. There is LOADS of grass for the winter.

She has never once spoken to me about using the field, her requirements or anything. Every communication has had to be from my side, even though it is her who supposedly wants to use the field. So, from my perspective:
Everything going swimmingly and I'm managing my field and grazing and so are my friends and we are keeping our fields good for the winter etc;
I hear via the grapevine that this woman is coming back from the other yard and wants to go in my field;
2 weeks pass and her horse still doesn't go out so I approach her and reiterate that she is welcome to use the field;
Horse still not going out, then we find out it is lame and not going out for a while;
I carry on with the arrangements that I am accustomed to prior to her arrival - and this seems to be what is causing the issue.

I know some of you think I'm being the controlling one here, but honestly and truely, I am really trying to accommodate this person's requirements, but also the requirements of my horse (if that makes sense). I have tried to be as nice and welcoming as I can be - the last thing I want is to fall out with the person sharing my field.
I'm not bullying her - I'm not a bullying person. I've had to ask other people what she's up to because I never see her and she barely speaks to me when I do (it is not a case of all of us whispering about her as she goes past).

Thanks to those of you who have posted to say you can see where I'm coming from...

You guys are right though, communication is key. I'll have a word next time I see her.

Thanks - I'm exhausted now!!