Rex Z - Inbreeding anyone!!! :)

eventrider23

eventrider23

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Ok - just been killing time on the net and stumbled across a site on Ratina Z's progeny. I had heard of Rex Z before but never thought twice about him till today (and not, in my opinion, in a good way). He was Ratina's 2nd foal, her first being a filly by Cor de la Bryere. Well the reason Rex sent warning flags up for me is that he is out of Ratina Z and by Rebel I Z....Ratina's FULL brother!! Fair enough things turned out ok and he went on to be an approved stallion in his own right, however how do people feel about this? It is not something I personally am confortable with. Line breeding - well in breeding that is generally unavoidable to a certain extent in some breeds, however, breeding full siblings??? Come on....why.....From the looks of it they may not have been happy with the outcome themselves as they never repeated the breeding....with Ratina's next foal, Treasure, being byTlaloc, her following 3 by Carthago Z and her 2002 foal by Artos z.....

So what do people think of inbreeding to this extent? I know the William Curtis stud breed theirs in this way, with sire being bred to daughter, brother to sister, brother to dam and so on and again I think that the gene pools are getting small enough in some breeds as it is without making them smaller and potentially increasing problems...but what do you guys think?
 
i mentioned this in a postrecently

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/sh...rue#Post3719581

if thats what people want to do then thats fine with me, not sure i would. you can see why they did though, she is the show jumper of the century...

dont forget she's also had a foal by cornet... comme il faut, i think its called. shame its not a bit bigger (only 161).
 
OOH Dannydunne - hadn't seen that post...oops
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I appreciate the why, etc. and yes of course it was successful but personally I have to use the old saying of:

'Just because you CAN do something really doesn't mean you SHOULD'

Didn't realise she's has the Cornet foal. Her
grandchildren are now comign to the fore as well now...
 
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Ok - just been killing time on the net and stumbled across a site on Ratina Z's progeny. I had heard of Rex Z before but never thought twice about him till today (and not, in my opinion, in a good way). He was Ratina's 2nd foal, her first being a filly by Cor de la Bryere. Well the reason Rex sent warning flags up for me is that he is out of Ratina Z and by Rebel I Z....Ratina's FULL brother!! Fair enough things turned out ok and he went on to be an approved stallion in his own right, however how do people feel about this? It is not something I personally am confortable with. Line breeding - well in breeding that is generally unavoidable to a certain extent in some breeds, however, breeding full siblings??? Come on....why.....From the looks of it they may not have been happy with the outcome themselves as they never repeated the breeding....with Ratina's next foal, Treasure, being byTlaloc, her following 3 by Carthago Z and her 2002 foal by Artos z.....

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Actually in the beginning I always heard that the mating of Ratina x Rebel I was always put down to a 'paddock' accident ... one of them jumping the fence, having some free time together en presto 11 months later ....
Not an intentional breeding, although the outcome was acceptable any responsible breeder won't test his luck twice.
 
thanks for that ColourFan - good to know that it was likely to not have been intentional...I guess this is evidenced by them not repeating the breeding. I suppose they would rather the public thought by and large that it was an intentional experimental breeding rather than a paddock jumping accident!
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Have just written an article on this very subject. This is far too close for me but not unusual, in one paper I have read from across the pond, father daughter matings are advocated as a means of seeing how strong the genetic traits are in a stallion! But what they seem to forget is that any “bad” genes in a horse inbred upon or any mutations that have occurred in this animal are also strengthened and perpetrated by doing very close matings!

On a personal level I would like to see the results of close inbreeding be it on purpose or by accident be gelded or spayed for the good of the gene pool, in the hands of a professional they could be ok in a couple of generations of total out crossing, but to me they are a potential risk to the genetic health of a breed, especially if deliberately or unwittingly crossed on that line again.

Line breeding in the TB has always been used to describe the crossing of lines outside of the 5th generation, but it seems that it has been incorrectly used in some circles to describe very close matings, after all it sounds better than inbreeding doesn’t it?

Personally I think that the TB model of inbreeding is as far as I would go i.e. 3x3 as the advocated closest mating from the majority of breeders. There are distinct and proven advantages to mild and careful inbreeding and line breeding in performance breeds such as the TB. To inbreed 3x3 I myself would do this by using ½ siblings in the second generation rather than full, like in the case of TB Big Brown who is inbred 3x3 on Northern Dancer through his sons the two ½ brothers Danzig and Nureyev.

You cannot help but wonder if this close inbreeding practice is responsible for the spread of genetic problems within certain breeds, it is certainly being blamed in dogs!
 
I found this very interesting as i have just bought a horse who is by Rex Z. I thought it was a misprint on his breeding card. He seems ok though, dont think its done him any harm, he is a stunning horse.
 
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