Ribbleton training - what is it?

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Daisy H said:
Wow! New users enter the saloon. The music stops. Well-known members turn from the bar and eye them suspiciously. ‘You’re not welcome here.’ ‘We don’t like you.’ ‘Coming here with your fancy foreign ideas.’ ‘We’re gonna shoot you down.’ Maybe I’ve seen too many westerns. I thought H&H forums was a friendly place, not a troll-fest.

The truth is, the lady who runs Ribbleton heard about this thread and asked people to post some positive (truthful) reviews. Forgive her, she’s an Australian living in Australia, she doesn’t understand the Great British psyche.

But who am I? My profile says ‘new user’ too. I’ve been studying with Ribbleton for 2 years and I love it. I know the other posters from our forum and they are genuine users, not sales people. But I would say that, wouldn’t I? I’d post a positive review but sadly it seems H&H Forums is not the place. If the OP or anyone else would like to message me for my thoughts and feedback, feel free. For the rest, I’m wearing my riding hat and body protector (the closest thing I have to a stab vest) ready for the backlash. I doubt I’ll look back for replies though. Life under lockdown while also working in a supermarket is sh*t enough without this kind of meanness.

In the words of the wonderful Caroline Flack, my second favourite ever Strictly competitor after Mark Benton (who could forget his cha cha cha to ‘U can’t touch this’, available on YouTube), ‘In a world where you can be anything, be kind’.
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Daisy H said:
Wow! New users enter the saloon. The music stops. Well-known members turn from the bar and eye them suspiciously. ‘You’re not welcome here.’ ‘We don’t like you.’ ‘Coming here with your fancy foreign ideas.’ ‘We’re gonna shoot you down.’ Maybe I’ve seen too many westerns. I thought H&H forums was a friendly place, not a troll-fest.

The truth is, the lady who runs Ribbleton heard about this thread and asked people to post some positive (truthful) reviews. Forgive her, she’s an Australian living in Australia, she doesn’t understand the Great British psyche.

But who am I? My profile says ‘new user’ too. I’ve been studying with Ribbleton for 2 years and I love it. I know the other posters from our forum and they are genuine users, not sales people. But I would say that, wouldn’t I? I’d post a positive review but sadly it seems H&H Forums is not the place. If the OP or anyone else would like to message me for my thoughts and feedback, feel free. For the rest, I’m wearing my riding hat and body protector (the closest thing I have to a stab vest) ready for the backlash. I doubt I’ll look back for replies though. Life under lockdown while also working in a supermarket is sh*t enough without this kind of meanness.

In the words of the wonderful Caroline Flack, my second favourite ever Strictly competitor after Mark Benton (who could forget his cha cha cha to ‘U can’t touch this’, available on YouTube), ‘In a world where you can be anything, be kind’.
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If you have been studying Ribbleton for 2 years, you must be minted, If a 10 week course is £4,000 its £400 a week, studying it for 2 years has cost you what £20,800 ? or do they give you the other 94 weeks for free ?

Could you also clarify if the system is so good and warrants a price of £4000 for a 10 week course, why are you still studying it 2 years later on ?

So it can't be worth 4k for the 10 weeks can it ?
 
Daisy H said:
Wow! New users enter the saloon. The music stops. Well-known members turn from the bar and eye them suspiciously. ‘You’re not welcome here.’ ‘We don’t like you.’ ‘Coming here with your fancy foreign ideas.’ ‘We’re gonna shoot you down.’ Maybe I’ve seen too many westerns. I thought H&H forums was a friendly place, not a troll-fest.

The truth is, the lady who runs Ribbleton heard about this thread and asked people to post some positive (truthful) reviews. Forgive her, she’s an Australian living in Australia, she doesn’t understand the Great British psyche.

But who am I? My profile says ‘new user’ too. I’ve been studying with Ribbleton for 2 years and I love it. I know the other posters from our forum and they are genuine users, not sales people. But I would say that, wouldn’t I? I’d post a positive review but sadly it seems H&H Forums is not the place. If the OP or anyone else would like to message me for my thoughts and feedback, feel free. For the rest, I’m wearing my riding hat and body protector (the closest thing I have to a stab vest) ready for the backlash. I doubt I’ll look back for replies though. Life under lockdown while also working in a supermarket is sh*t enough without this kind of meanness.

In the words of the wonderful Caroline Flack, my second favourite ever Strictly competitor after Mark Benton (who could forget his cha cha cha to ‘U can’t touch this’, available on YouTube), ‘In a world where you can be anything, be kind’.
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Daisy - the owner of Ribbleton training would have been better off if she was concerned about this thread to post herself about the methodology, why it works and educate folks. Unfortunately by getting her disciples to do so it has come across as cult like, which I’m sure it is not.

im also in Sydney, incidentally living very close to Ribbleton. We are not in lockdown in NSW. We are in stage 3 restrictions which for most of us is very manageable.

It’s much better than the rest of the world right now. I’m sorry you hate your supermarket job, but you have a job. I’m grateful you have it as it made my trip to Woolies this morning easy with the high volume of quality staff. We do appreciate the crazy hours you are all working. NSW will be out of this sooner than most. We are super lucky.

You are fortunate to have found a training regime that gives you the results you want and the relationship with your horse that is unique. Keep going. It will make your supermarket job and all the challenges you are facing seem worth it.
 
Bonnie Allie said:
Daisy - the owner of Ribbleton training would have been better off if she was concerned about this thread to post herself about the methodology, why it works and educate folks. Unfortunately by getting her disciples to do so it has come across as cult like, which I’m sure it is not.

im also in Sydney, incidentally living very close to Ribbleton. We are not in lockdown in NSW. We are in stage 3 restrictions which for most of us is very manageable.

It’s much better than the rest of the world right now. I’m sorry you hate your supermarket job, but you have a job. I’m grateful you have it as it made my trip to Woolies this morning easy with the high volume of quality staff. We do appreciate the crazy hours you are all working. NSW will be out of this sooner than most. We are super lucky.

You are fortunate to have found a training regime that gives you the results you want and the relationship with your horse that is unique. Keep going. It will make your supermarket job and all the challenges you are facing seem worth it.
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Wow Woolies must pay top dollar over there.
It does sound like a cult so have popped some tin foil on my head and shut the curtains just in case they are watching
 
Out of interest I watched the introductory YouTube video.

I have absolutely no idea what the method involved. It was about 5 minutes of the founder talking about attunement with her horse, not using a whip any more. Several shots of her kissing her horse and then she seemed to be just free schooling - horse frequently reared at her turned round and double barrelled in her direction and generally bogged off in the opposite direction. I don‘t want to spend £4000 to teach my ponies to do that.
 
OP here. I note that no-one has yet actually answered my question about how you can 'disagree with' behavioural reinforcement. I use the BBT clip regularly to illustrate the concept (although there is a mistake in it - 'punishment' is called 'negative reinforcement' which should horrify Sheldon with its inaccuracy).
 
Ribbleton is about communicating with your horse in a way it understands - more like a horse, less like a human (which it doesn’t understand). training focused on stuff horse enjoys doing in small chunks so horse doesn’t get really bored. Horse develops intrinsic motivation - understands what its being asked to do, doing things it enjoys. No reinforcement needed. Sorry don’t know much about + or - reinforcement in training so can’t really compare. Hope that helps
 
ShoutyWoman said:
Ribbleton is about communicating with your horse in a way it understands - more like a horse, less like a human (which it doesn’t understand). training focused on stuff horse enjoys doing in small chunks so horse doesn’t get really bored. Horse develops intrinsic motivation - understands what its being asked to do, doing things it enjoys. No reinforcement needed. Sorry don’t know much about + or - reinforcement in training so can’t really compare. Hope that helps
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Well horses and humans have had a pretty okay working relationship for a coupe of thousand years, according to google between 4 to 6,000 years. I mean seriously I do not think i know a horse that would pick being ridden if they can pick eating grass.
 
Don’t know what the 4K course is. I did a short course a while ago which cost a few £100, can’t remember exact amount. There were a few. Courses at the time from short courses to 2 years, nothing cost anywhere near 4K. Ive tried a few trainers over the years, some I’ve liked some I haven’t. This one does offer something different: other trainers are all about getting the horse to do what you want, this is more collaborative. I got a lot out of it and I understand my horses a lot better. I suppose it boils down to - if you’re happpy with traditional command and control this probably isn’t for you. If you’re looking for something more progressive and less humans rule the world it may be for you
 
Gingerwitch, yes the relationship has been excellent for humans, less so for horses which never get asked their opinion. Your 2nd sentence kinda proves that. Simple fact is the horse isnt designed to be ridden, there’s research that states the horse’s back isn’t designed to carry weight. No reflection on people who ride, I rode a lot til recently (bit old and decrepit now) but thems the facts
 
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ShoutyWoman said:
Ribbleton is about communicating with your horse in a way it understands - more like a horse, less like a human (which it doesn’t understand). training focused on stuff horse enjoys doing in small chunks so horse doesn’t get really bored. Horse develops intrinsic motivation - understands what its being asked to do, doing things it enjoys. No reinforcement needed. Sorry don’t know much about + or - reinforcement in training so can’t really compare. Hope that helps
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But 'enjoyment' - i.e. the physiological reponse that the horse feels - is a form of reinforcement. So what sorts of thing do you do to make sure the horse enjoys itself and also (presumably) does things that you would like it to and doesn't hurt you? And how can a training system disagree with a concept that it doesn't seem to understand? You can disagree with the application of types of reinforcement but I'm still sure that you can't disagree that reinforcement exists and is the basis of all training.
 
soloequestrian said:
But 'enjoyment' - i.e. the physiological reponse that the horse feels - is a form of reinforcement. So what sorts of thing do you do to make sure the horse enjoys itself and also (presumably) does things that you would like it to and doesn't hurt you? And how can a training system disagree with a concept that it doesn't seem to understand? You can disagree with the application of types of reinforcement but I'm still sure that you can't disagree that reinforcement exists and is the basis of all training.
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It sounds like the designer of the programme isn't aware of the correct meaning of reinforcement. I've noticed people often get behaviourism mixed up. Positive punishment and negative reinforcement seem to be commonly confused.
 
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ShoutyWoman said:
Gingerwitch, yes the relationship has been excellent for humans, less so for horses which never get asked their opinion. Your 2nd sentence kinda proves that. Simple fact is the horse isnt designed to be ridden, there’s research that states the horse’s back isn’t designed to carry weight. No reflection on people who ride, I rode a lot til recently (bit old and decrepit now) but thems the facts
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So basically Ribbleton wants horses to be come the new cows ie. a way of turning grass into meat ?
May make a change, I do not think cows suffer with laminitis but will stand to be corrected, and i can just picture daisy with a nice pony rug on.
 
So, in the hope that someone who has used the system comes back to this post, here is an example of how I have trained a response in one of my horses using various reinforcers:
I trained my young horse to pick her feet up so I can check them. I had previously clicker trained her, which is a very clear form of positive reinforcement with a bridging signal (the carrot she gets is the positive reinforcer - it stimulates a physiological response that she finds pleasant, the click is the bridge that gives her a feeling of looking forward to a reward appearing, which is also pleasant, so to some extent the click is also a reinforcer).
I tapped her leg with my finger which acted as negative reinforcement - she found it a bit irritating and the way to get rid of the irritation was to lift her leg out of the way. This was what I wanted so stopped tapping and immediately clicked and rewarded (positive reinforcement). Once she knew that lifting her leg obtained a reward, she was happy to do it and so the negative reinforcer of the slightly tickly tap became just a pointed finger cue.
I'd be interested to know what the differences are in the Ribbleton system, including whether you would train this, and if so how you would do it.
 
soloequestrian said:
But 'enjoyment' - i.e. the physiological reponse that the horse feels - is a form of reinforcement. So what sorts of thing do you do to make sure the horse enjoys itself and also (presumably) does things that you would like it to and doesn't hurt you? And how can a training system disagree with a concept that it doesn't seem to understand? You can disagree with the application of types of reinforcement but I'm still sure that you can't disagree that reinforcement exists and is the basis of all training.
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Sorry, I see I’ve misunderstood the complexity of ‘reinforcement’. I did say it’s not something I’ve looked into particularly. I was trying to help but clearly failed. I don’t speak for the person who made the comment you’re questioning. I don’t think you’re going to get an answer to your question on here so can only suggest you contact her direct :-)
 
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Gingerwitch said:
So basically Ribbleton wants horses to be come the new cows ie. a way of turning grass into meat ?
May make a change, I do not think cows suffer with laminitis but will stand to be corrected, and i can just picture daisy with a nice pony rug on.
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Not at all. That was me not Ribbleton and more of a philosophical point about the human race’s use of animals for its own ends. You said (paraphrasing slightly): horses and humans have had a pretty ok working relationship for thousands of years. Horses would rather eat grass than be ridden. How is that an ok working relationship from the horse‘s perspective? Asking for myself not Ribbleton
 
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Daisy H good for you for being honest and open about why you are here. Previous posters were not. It absolutely is good to have view on things and nothing wrong with being positive about something you feel has helped you, but be honest about what brings you here before calling people bullies.
 
ShoutyWoman said:
Sorry, I see I’ve misunderstood the complexity of ‘reinforcement’. I did say it’s not something I’ve looked into particularly. I was trying to help but clearly failed. I don’t speak for the person who made the comment you’re questioning. I don’t think you’re going to get an answer to your question on here so can only suggest you contact her direct :)
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I tried that, I just got the corporate response, nothing helpful. I'd be interested in your response to my other post, just above, which is much more specific.
 
soloequestrian said:
I tried that, I just got the corporate response, nothing helpful. I'd be interested in your response to my other post, just above, which is much more specific.
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That’s a shame, I see your frustration. I dont feel at all confident about working through an example not knowing the terminology. I am bamboozled by the appetitive and aversive reinforcers and the positive punishment and negative reinforcement etc. This has been a very unfriendly thread (not your fault) and I don’t want to lay myself open to abuse from others when I inevitably get it wrong. I will politely decline. Sorry I can’t help.
 
ShoutyWoman said:
Ribbleton is about communicating with your horse in a way it understands - more like a horse, less like a human (which it doesn’t understand). training focused on stuff horse enjoys doing in small chunks so horse doesn’t get really bored. Horse develops intrinsic motivation - understands what its being asked to do, doing things it enjoys. No reinforcement needed. Sorry don’t know much about + or - reinforcement in training so can’t really compare. Hope that helps
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As has been said, pretty much all communication is reinforcement. Allowing a horse to do something it enjoys is positive reinforcement, or a reward, if you'd rather. Positive reinforcement doesn't have to mean a food reward. If you use pressure/release, you're using negative reinforcement. Things like sending a horse away with body language if they do undesirable behaviour count as punishment. If you're using stimuli (including your voice and body language) to train a horse, that's reinforcement- and if you're interacting with a horse at all, you must be doing this, even inadvertently.

It's fair enough to not know what reinforcement is, but you shouldn't say "it's not needed" if you don't understand it!
 
I've just wasted 20 mins having an interesting read through this thread :)

I'm forever being bombarded by companies wanting me to spend money signing up to a course but those who are genuine (Straightness training, Ritter amongst others) tend to share enough freebies on line that you know broadly what you are signing up for. Anything this opaque really does send out warning signals.
 
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