Richard Maxwell vs Intellegent Horsemanship

annunziata

annunziata

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Hello!!

Right I was wondering what your thoughts were. I have heard great things about the intellegent horsemanship with Kelly marks, but I was wanting peoples thoughts on Richard Maxwell??

My horse and I have a couple of major behaviour issues and I was wondering if I would gain more with Richard or do I take him for 5 days to Kelly Marks, but I was unsure if I would get a lot of time to work with him there one on one???
 
Richard Maxwell without a doubt. We had him out years ago to help with loading problems. We learnt so much in the time he was with us. You are left with homework and he supported me on the phone. He will also come back out to you if you are really struggling.

I always say I wouldn't have my horse now if it wasn't for RM.
 
MickeyMoo said:
Richard Maxwell without a doubt. We had him out years ago to help with loading problems. We learnt so much in the time he was with us. You are left with homework and he supported me on the phone. He will also come back out to you if you are really struggling.

I always say I wouldn't have my horse now if it wasn't for RM.
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Okay that is possitive as I love my horse and dont want to sell him or more likely give him to someone else, but I am at my wits end. Did he come to you or did you take him there??? If you dont mind me asking what was your horses issue?? Or was it just loading???

I have loading issues (almost resolved) mounting and napping...........
 
I basically bought a horse from a family that were clearly overhorsed. He was very sharp and switched on, and threw his toys out the pram whenever he was asked to do something he didn't want to. With the original family, this scared the daughter, so they kept him for a pet for a year before deciding to sell. Then I came along. Looking back, he was too much for my knowledge level, but I had worked with experienced trainers which really helped.

We bought a trailer as I was ready to go out into the big wide world, or so I thought! He would load on the way out, but not on the way home. Rearing, throwing himself about, it really was dangerous. It turned what should have been lovely days out into stressful nighmares as you just knew at some point you were going to go through that agony of trying to load. Eventually we stopped going out. We were advised to have RM out from someone that had used him locally.

RM gave us loads of excercises and we learnt so much more than just how to load. We just wish we had turned to him earlier. People will say he is expensive, but what we learnt and where we are now we would have paid double the fee. You pay a lot of money to keep a horse, and I was ready to go out competing but he wouldn't load.. Whats the point in that.

It was also nothing we had or hadn't done, we just bought a clever / sensitive horse. We also think he may have had a bad journey over from Ireland.

RM came out to us. He also works with ridden issues so will have lots of tips for your mounting an napping. I have seen him do a ridden demo and would love a lesson with him. One day maybe.

Good luck whatever you decide to do. xxx
 
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I'm another voter for Richard, he had our horse for a loading demo, and within 20 minutes, the horse was loading himself and even Richard's 12 year old old was loading him.

Our horse is also scared on Men, but straight away bonded with Richard, to the point of following him during the demo!!
 
I highly recommend Richard Maxwell He isn't cheap but you get what you pay for!
I had a IH registered associate and wasn't that impressed.
I had done all the ground work and had sat on and done walk with my young horse but wanted suport to move on.
After sessions with an IH associate which didn't seem to go anywhere I decided to get Richard Maxwell 'Max' out for a whole afternoon session.
He did several sessions during the afternoonwith my horse both in hand and ridden and the final session was a lesson with me on board .He is an excellent teaher and a sensitive handler and rider.
In the gaps between the session he sat down with me to expain what he was doing and work out a plan for me to carry on the work.He made it all clear and easy.
I never looked back and never needed another sesion with him.
Well worth the money
 
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mrsh2010 said:
I'm another voter for Richard, he had our horse for a loading demo, and within 20 minutes, the horse was loading himself and even Richard's 12 year old old was loading him.

Our horse is also scared on Men, but straight away bonded with Richard, to the point of following him during the demo!!
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Thank you everyone for your advise. I have contacted the RM team and they have sent me some pirces :-S has anyone used him for riding stuff??? My biggest thing is when he decided he is not going to do something he just indimidates you and throws a tantrum and trys to off load you and he knows what he is doing which is not nice at all. The problem is that people used to get off him and put him away I dont do this and ride the tantrums but I am getting to my wits end and needs some help do you think he could help me?! Sorry to be a pain its a lot of money and I want to gain the most from this
 
He is such a sensitive rider and the lesson I had with him was brilliant!
His ridden work was a dream to watch.
 
i would not recommend him.i sold my horse to a lady as he was way too much for me and she promised him a home for life,he went to a sanctuary then to richard,i told them he needed starting from basics as he did nothing with me as he was too much.

within a week they got on him and trying walk trot and canter,he threw a hissyfit and richard advised he was dangerous and to pts.if they had restarted him on the lunge,long lines carefully he would have been fine.

i hold him personally responsible for that horses death.and wont even buy a magazine with him in it now.
 
WelshShowCobs said:
i would not recommend him.i sold my horse to a lady as he was way too much for me and she promised him a home for life,he went to a sanctuary then to richard,i told them he needed starting from basics as he did nothing with me as he was too much.

within a week they got on him and trying walk trot and canter,he threw a hissyfit and richard advised he was dangerous and to pts.if they had restarted him on the lunge,long lines carefully he would have been fine.

i hold him personally responsible for that horses death.and wont even buy a magazine with him in it now.
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Is this a personal experience or hearsay, I find it very, very hard to believe.

I have had Richard out to both of my horses for ridden and groundwork consultations. I don't have time to go into it right now as I need to rush out but worth every penny. I wouldn't be half the rider/trainer I am now without his help. You won't regret it. Don't listen to rumours from people who have never actually dealt with him personally.
 
LouS said:
Is this a personal experience or hearsay, I find it very, very hard to believe.

I have had Richard out to both of my horses for ridden and groundwork consultations. I don't have time to go into it right now as I need to rush out but worth every penny. I wouldn't be half the rider/trainer I am now without his help. You won't regret it. Don't listen to rumours from people who have never actually dealt with him personally.
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it is a PERSONAL experience,i found out 2 weeks after he had been pts,i would NEVER send any horse to him,i would speak with kelly marks or one of her associates.
 
WelshShowCobs said:
it is a PERSONAL experience,i found out 2 weeks after he had been pts,i would NEVER send any horse to him,i would speak with kelly marks or one of her associates.
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I am soo sorry for your loss of your horse what a terrible thing to have happened. Have you had any expereince with Kelly Marks??? I have heard lots of good and bad (like everything) and she was who I we were thinking of taking him to for a 5 day course if I did not go down the RM route. I know they are totally different wave lengths!!
 
ive not had any experience with her im afraid but read her books and watched demos and if i had an issue again i would be speaking with her as her books have helped alot at home with minor issues.

shes on another forum quite a bit and seems like someone i would happily trust my horse with.

thank you for that
 
What forum is she on???? I spoke to her office and they where not that helpful but it was a receptionist. I really want to try to speak to someone there and at RM before and then make an informed decision as to where I take him as we defo need help!!
 
Hi,

She is on the forum on the IH website. Personally I would recommend KM, she is very considerate to horses & never seen her less than calm & sensitive to them, but would not recommend an associate from personal experience. No experience of RM. Looked into getting him for a non-loader a couple of years ago but with travel price way out of my league.

All the best, can only say go with your gut instinct.

Pip
 
I've never used him but watched him demo some years ago (When he was still with Monty and Kelly) and I was more impressed with him than some of the IH.Haven't seen him for some years though I liked his patience and the fact that if he thought the demo horse wasn't ready for what the owner wanted he would work on what it needed.
 
WelshShowCobs said:
i would not recommend him.i sold my horse to a lady as he was way too much for me and she promised him a home for life,he went to a sanctuary then to richard,i told them he needed starting from basics as he did nothing with me as he was too much.

within a week they got on him and trying walk trot and canter,he threw a hissyfit and richard advised he was dangerous and to pts.if they had restarted him on the lunge,long lines carefully he would have been fine.

i hold him personally responsible for that horses death.and wont even buy a magazine with him in it now.
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If you know so much more than Maxwell, why didn't you sort the horse out, for yourself?

Assuming that your system works, why did the horse end up being too much for you?

Your comments about the man are at odds with not just my personal experience of him, but that of every other person to whom I've listened.

O_P, I have no experience of Intel-H, so I can't comment, but I do of Maxwell. He's a joy to watch and work with. I can't recommend him highly enough.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
If you know so much more than Maxwell, why didn't you sort the horse out, for yourself?

Assuming that your system works, why did the horse end up being too much for you?

Your comments about the man are at odds with not just my personal experience of him, but that of every other person to whom I've listened.

O_P, I have no experience of Intel-H, so I can't comment, but I do of Maxwell. He's a joy to watch and work with. I can't recommend him highly enough.

Alec.
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i was a novice owner hence why he was too much,sold as a happy hacker but not that.i sold him to a very experienced and lovely lady.

the issues he had were not something i had dealt with before,i know how to deal with a bolshy welsh but a rearing thoroughbred who lived on edge as alot of tb's do?no sorry but no experience.

i sold him because i had no bond,when my horse panicks she looks to me,he went through me and ignored me,when she took over the leadrope you could tell he trusted and bonded with her.

i never said i was better than him but that i wouldnt send a dead horse to him.
 
WelshShowCobs said:
i hold him personally responsible for that horses death.and wont even buy a magazine with him in it now.
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I'm sorry, but if you felt this strongly, why did you sell the horse? The only way to guarantee your horses will always be kept to the standard you want is to keep them, and not sell them on...
It seems that, although horse horse clearly had issues, he had a good life, never suffered from neglect, etc. There are many horses who end up frightening/injuring their owners who consequently end up suffering much worse fates than being pts.
 
Because he was not right for me.as ive explained he didnt bond with me much as i tried.so wether he was suitable to ride or not he wasnt bonding with me.

Its horrible and the main reason why i will NEVER sell another horse.

so if you sold a horse with issues that you didnt have time/experience/or money to deal with and instead of giving said horse the time the new owner promise and instead pts would you not be a bit upset?

And yes tbh pts was possibly the best option for him as i dont have to worry.

The main point of me posting was explaining that they knew he was high tempered and knew he had issues and should have had alot of groudwork done,but instead they rushed it.
 
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WelshShowCobs said:
i would not recommend him.i sold my horse to a lady as he was way too much for me and she promised him a home for life,he went to a sanctuary then to richard,i told them he needed starting from basics as he did nothing with me as he was too much.

within a week they got on him and trying walk trot and canter,he threw a hissyfit and richard advised he was dangerous and to pts.if they had restarted him on the lunge,long lines carefully he would have been fine.

i hold him personally responsible for that horses death.and wont even buy a magazine with him in it now.
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We have a horse on permanent loan to us that Richard Maxwell advised should be PTS as a youngster as he was very aggressive & had other issues. He is a quirky boy & has mellowed with age, & i could imagine he could be difficult in the wrong hands, but my teenage daughter loves him to bits & he is very much part of the family, i find it a shame to think he could have been PTS due to someones advice.
 
WelshShowCobs I'm sorry for your loss and also that the person you sold to lied to you. But I'm wondering if you spoke to Richard Maxwell yourself and he told you the horse was dangerous and explained why he had that opinion, or whether it was the horses new owner who told you RM said that? If it was the horses owner, its possible that's what she told you rather than admit the horse was too much for her. Or perhaps you were only told half the story, ie maybe the horse was deemed dangerous without a lot more work (which was pretty much your own opinion too) but if the new owner wasn't prepared to pay for the work to be done then PTS was recommended? I'm only guessing and fully admit I could be wrong, but just can't help wondering if its as clear-cut as you're making out.
 
navaho said:
We have a horse on permanent loan to us that Richard Maxwell advised should be PTS as a youngster as he was very aggressive & had other issues. He is a quirky boy & has mellowed with age, & i could imagine he could be difficult in the wrong hands, but my teenage daughter loves him to bits & he is very much part of the family, i find it a shame to think he could have been PTS due to someones advice.
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thank you for that!and im glad to see someone didnt listen to him!

well done on your lad!the right bond and situation can change everything.
 
This may be contenious- but there are many people working with horses that are way better than IH instructors , or R M -very mixed opinions about him , here in his native Yorks.
Finding the true horsemen -those working at the coalface and not trying to be a name - is the hard job. Dont discount 'traditional' style people eg professional show riders/eventers /dressage riders- they will have a mountain of experience , that some young 'associate' will never have for decades.
 
WelshShowCobs said:
it is a PERSONAL experience,i found out 2 weeks after he had been pts,i would NEVER send any horse to him,i would speak with kelly marks or one of her associates.
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i am really sorry to hear about what happened to the horse but if you were not there when he said it then it IS hearsay, or is that just me?
the person who told you that is what he said may be saying it so you dont judge her?
also maybe a rearing tb that goes right through people and has trouble bonding is dangerous and should be put to sleep?
you cannot judge him even if it was his advice cos you were not there to witness what he did
i have no personal experience of either km or rm, but i tend take all the bits from the different approaches that i think may work for me and mine
 
WelshShowCobs said:
Because he was not right for me.as ive explained he didnt bond with me much as i tried.so wether he was suitable to ride or not he wasnt bonding with me.

Its horrible and the main reason why i will NEVER sell another horse.

so if you sold a horse with issues that you didnt have time/experience/or money to deal with and instead of giving said horse the time the new owner promise and instead pts would you not be a bit upset?
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If a horse is truly dangerous it should be pts or kept by someone who can guarantee it isn't going to be passed on to other unsuspecting people.
You sold the horse, and you cannot put any blame onto the the lady who you sold it to. If she had been injured, would you care about that?

Did you investigate to see if there were any medical reasons for such behaviour? Did it have KS perhaps, or a neurological problem? Perhaps RM found symptoms of underlying issues causing the erratic and dangerous behaviour, and it would have been very irresponsible of him to allow his client to ride a horse who is and is likely to remain dangerous.
He very rarely gives that sort of advice, so I suspect there was more going on with that horse than you are saying or are aware of.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
WelshShowCobs I'm sorry for your loss and also that the person you sold to lied to you. But I'm wondering if you spoke to Richard Maxwell yourself and he told you the horse was dangerous and explained why he had that opinion, or whether it was the horses new owner who told you RM said that? If it was the horses owner, its possible that's what she told you rather than admit the horse was too much for her. Or perhaps you were only told half the story, ie maybe the horse was deemed dangerous without a lot more work (which was pretty much your own opinion too) but if the new owner wasn't prepared to pay for the work to be done then PTS was recommended? I'm only guessing and fully admit I could be wrong, but just can't help wondering if its as clear-cut as you're making out.
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I was told by the new owner,on the forum and by another person who was working with the horse.

she had the money,he was sold VERY cheaply with a saddle,bridle and a few bits and bobs as i wanted someone who could help him,if i had my own place and could be turned out 24/7 and with the help of someone more experienced he would have been ok.he responded to work and wanted to please but when he got scared i was in no way able to help him as i have a physical disability.

he only went through people if he didnt trust them,with her he listened to her,got out of her space and calmed down.

yes maybe it is hearsay then,by 3 different people,if i could have been there,i would have but i wasnt given a choice.

again i go back to the issue that he had the horse a week and got on it asking for canter and he blew as most horses would after not having anything done with him for over 8 months!and i would not recommend him.
 
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