Ridden issues - basic

Just wanted to add that when you think hes working into a contact hes not. He pulls his nose in, but hes taking tiny tense steps behind and hollowing his back.

I've got one like him. If you are confident and actually ride him he is fine, just very forward. If you just sit there you will be in the next county or off over his shoulder before you know where you are at. Based on those videos I wouldnt let you ride mine. It would be asking for trouble.

Equally you need to ditch the instructor. You need to go back to basics. Learn to ride the walk and control the pace, then the same in trot before you even give a passing thought to outlines. At this point you are a tense, tippy passenger, but that could all be changed with a few tweaks and if your instructor has not done that then they are doing you a disservice.
 
JFTD said:
You have this backwards - changing directions, going sideways, making more complicated patterns is how you get them listening, not something you do when they are listening!

I can't see any lameness, but it's pretty low res and jerky on my screen, so I wouldn't say there wasn't either!
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This the constant moving about is how you get them listening in the first place and is why I suggested another instructor as I don't feel you are getting enough info to really work him, I also cannot see any lameness as such, with him going the way he does it can make anything appear unlevel and I think he did have some investigations a while ago which found him to be sound.

On the position question again a good instructor would tackle that as it is fundamental, I would start by walking without stirrups, try to sit deep, soften your knee so you stop forcing your heels down which is causing the bracing and will stop you sitting properly, bend your elbows so you can lift your hands and your core will start to develop, it does not happen overnight but a little every day will help, finish each session without stirrups as well, at this stage I see no real benefit from trotting without them unless you are on the lunge.
 
JFTD said:
He looks like he's having a proper jolly, and you're just along for the ride!

I don't really agree with some of the comments above - I do think ponies do things which we perceive as them "being a git" for reasons other than being worried or confused. They're not machines, they do things for all sorts of reasons - because it's easier than doing as they're told, or because they're fresh, or they just enjoy going for a wee canter when you're not asking for it. I also think some horses have a sense of humour, and a cheeky side - pushing boundaries just because they can. None of this means you shouldn't consider all the reasons he may be unhappy, or unsure, or that you should beat him or bit him up harshly - but I do think to over-simplify horse behaviour and remove their capacity to make their own choices does them a great disservice!
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agreed-but without the benefit of seeing video of whats happening, I would always give the horse the benefit of the doubt on here.
 
i would not be trying to school in circles, i would lunge him, then ride round the edge of the arena, this horse is totally unbalanced and it shows in his very inconsistent rhythm in his paces, until he can go forward in balance and find a rhythm that he can maintain he will not reach out forwards into the contact and until he does you are going no where

he needs to work the outer track with confidence, coming back to walk then halt and back up through the paces, his transistions can be gradual and unhurried, to start with, i would do changes of rein through walk to start.

any instructor who wants to put a gag on that horse is a lunatic and lacks any sense of the basic requirements and knowledge of what is needed to train an unschooled horse, you need someone not necessarily an RI but a person with the skills of riding an un schooled horse.

your arms are very straight, open your chest and bend your elbows, this can sometimes have a dramatic effect , horses can transform when ridden so they can actually go forwards into a soft giving hand
 
ester said:
The trouble is I think that a lot of posters have already highlighted the possible physical issues going on here and it feels like there are only so many times it can be said (here and elsewhere). If that makes sense?
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Yes and I wasn’t going to comment but a number of people are suggesting he’s being a nob and I don’t think he is :(
 
MotherOfChickens said:
agreed-but without the benefit of seeing video of whats happening, I would always give the horse the benefit of the doubt on here.
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I know what you mean - I wouldn't want to encourage someone to ride through issues on a lame horse, but I also feel it's important to acknowledge that horses do sometimes do things for their own reasons, and their motivations are not as easy to divine as just reacting to pain or confusion. But you're right - nuance is often lost on here!
 
Rowreach said:
Second video particularly, doesn’t need to be high resolution to see it, lame behind.
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I've just pulled my laptop out to see them in a decent size / resolution, and I'd be really unhappy riding that horse until his movement has been properly investigated. He looks very unhappy on that hind leg.
 
OP, watch the second video again, 50 secs to 1 min 10 should show you quite clearly what Rowreach is saying
 
JFTD said:
I know what you mean - I wouldn't want to encourage someone to ride through issues on a lame horse, but I also feel it's important to acknowledge that horses do sometimes do things for their own reasons, and their motivations are not as easy to divine as just reacting to pain or confusion. But you're right - nuance is often lost on here!
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I have natives, mostly their motivation is food and conserving energy ;)
 
Rowreach said:
Yes and I wasn’t going to comment but a number of people are suggesting he’s being a nob and I don’t think he is :(
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Yup. I dont think hes right at all, but theres only so many times you can say it. He looks a really miserable and fed up pony to me. And the way hes muscled would have alarm bells ringing never mind the rest!
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I have natives, mostly their motivation is food and conserving energy ;)
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Hmm, one of my natives was very, very jolly this morning. He wasted an awful lot of energy being very bouncy (but made up for it by snatching cow parsley as he went :eek3: ). I don't think he realises he's meant to be a native pony :p
 
Do you hack out at all OP?
In the videos you both look unbalanced and you look to be bracing against him and waiting for him to play up, which is understandable as nobody wants to come off and be stood on.

If this were my horse I would ditch the school. He looks willing to go forward so to build muscle and let him enjoy himself I would be hacking. Up and down hills, over natural obstacles and just generally varying a good walk and trot with a nice blast through a field or up a hill will improve both of you greatly.

He looks like a lovely willing ride, I'd love to take him out hacking and see what his strengths and weaknesses are, plus you can school as you hack without the mental block of being in a perfect circle in a school.
 
JFTD said:
Hmm, one of my natives was very, very jolly this morning. He wasted an awful lot of energy being very bouncy (but made up for it by snatching cow parsley as he went :eek3: ). I don't think he realises he's meant to be a native pony :p
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Oh mine is jolly-especially once we've turned for home lol (joking aside, he's forward lol and quite difficult to wear out!)
 
I am hearing all of the concern, i have had him checked twice by two different people, right front is tight and tight over the pole on right side. nothing extreme and said it was fine to carry on. I have to be guarded when people suggest lameness as no one who has seen him ridden has suggest lameness ( there have been many people that have seen him) and the fact he doesn't do this when he has a more experienced rider on him. When i post on here i never post the good, its always the worst. He isn't going to be looking happy if i'm not happy because i'm sure if its not comfortable for me, its not for him.

This was a video in mainly walk, i do a brief trot transition at the start, he jogs then i keep him in walk, does he look lame here? if so where ?

[video=youtube;TrLPT_PK908]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrLPT_PK908[/video]

this was us doing bits other than circles, he was having fun, looks fine?
[video=youtube;csL7U8i0wz8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csL7U8i0wz8[/video]

This was some nice trot work a few weeks ago - i knows its another circle but we had been doing lots before that
[video=youtube_share;UGvLXYX0eP0]https://youtu.be/UGvLXYX0eP0[/video]


His muscle isnt going to be tip top as we all know im still learning how to work him properly.
And as for him being an unhappy horse, he really isnt :(

He doesn't do the jogging on the lunge or anywhere else.

If he needs a lameness work up then so be it i will arrange that, but i hesitate as its been said before on here and he was absolutely sound. .
 
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First video is easiest to see - from 37 secs on look at the movement of his right hind.

And in the jump video he's almost bringing his hind legs through in unison. This could just be schooling/balance though
 
To be honest I'd get him out of the school. He looks bored and hacked off. You might find that his balance and strength improves if you spend a few weeks just hacking out.
 
I agree his hind action is not what you would want but I'm leaning towards it being due to tension in both horse and rider. Horse is being restricted in his movement which can cause this type of action.
OP- I'd ask you to try something and report back what happens.
Get yourself a neck strap, and put it on him. In walk both reins in one hand, hold neck strap with the other. Relax hand with reins in and pull back on the neck strap by leaning back (hard as you can). Do it a few times and see if you get the same response. If he stops release the neck strap and gently walk on. Do not pull back with the reins whilst doing this.
Let me know if you try it.
 
PaddyMonty said:
I agree his hind action is not what you would want but I'm leaning towards it being due to tension in both horse and rider. Horse is being restricted in his movement which can cause this type of action.
OP- I'd ask you to try something and report back what happens.
Get yourself a neck strap, and put it on him. In walk both reins in one hand, hold neck strap with the other. Relax hand with reins in and pull back on the neck strap by leaning back (hard as you can). Do it a few times and see if you get the same response. If he stops release the neck strap and gently walk on. Do not pull back with the reins whilst doing this.
Let me know if you try it.
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Will give it a go :) thank you.
 
Rosiejazzandpia said:
Do you hack out at all OP?
In the videos you both look unbalanced and you look to be bracing against him and waiting for him to play up, which is understandable as nobody wants to come off and be stood on.

If this were my horse I would ditch the school. He looks willing to go forward so to build muscle and let him enjoy himself I would be hacking. Up and down hills, over natural obstacles and just generally varying a good walk and trot with a nice blast through a field or up a hill will improve both of you greatly.

He looks like a lovely willing ride, I'd love to take him out hacking and see what his strengths and weaknesses are, plus you can school as you hack without the mental block of being in a perfect circle in a school.
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this 100%...out and about just having fun and learning to balance himself b4 serious work
 
Rowreach said:
Yes and I wasn’t going to comment but a number of people are suggesting he’s being a nob and I don’t think he is :(
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As the OP has gone back to using a saddle which she had decided previously didn't fit, I expect the horse is uncomfortable in it. It doesn't look a good fit from what I can see in the video.

OP, I suggest that you have some lessons on a mechanical horse to develop your own balance and then on RS horses to practise what you need to do on your own horse. The horse looks uncomfortable and confused in the videos, as do you. Have you analysed your riding when watching your videos? Can you see why the horse breaks pace?

While you are developing your own balance, I wouldn't take him in the school at all, I would do lots of walking hacks, with a patient friend, which will also help to develop your seat/balance. Keep checking your position as you go.

ETA, I also think you would benefit from a different instructor.
 
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First video, lame right the way through. Second video as DabDab says. Third video, too small and far away to see anything.

When you had his lameness work up done, was he seen under saddle at all?
 
Yup, hes not right. I looked at the 3rd video full screen and hes not much better there either.

Put the video on and sit and watch it. Pause it when you have to, watch it in slow motion. Look at how his joints move, how his legs come under him, the size of the steps he takes etc, etc, etc. There is something going on behind. It may well just be a lack of strength and improve over time, but why is he so under muscled behind? When mine does that it indicates a problem, not just a lack of work.
 
Horsekaren said:
He doesn't do the jogging on the lunge or anywhere else.

If he needs a lameness work up then so be it i will arrange that, but i hesitate as its been said before on here and he was absolutely sound. .
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That points to the saddle causing the problem, imo. Did the vet see him ridden? What does he do if you ride bareback?
 
I'm coming to this party a bit late but there is so much going on here (horse so green it's not even maintaining pace, tense rider, different saddle, understandably confused and tense horse) that I wouldn't be calling lameness based on these alone. Do you have any videos of when someone else rides him for you OP? With a bit of help from a stable rider to establish the rhythm he'd likely look totally different. Have you had any lunge lessons on another horse? That's pretty good for building up core and seat which will in turn make him much easier to manage. Where are you based again?
 
It's true though, the breathing issues the horse has had and the query over it being a headhaker or not also adds to complicating the picture.
 
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