Ride With Your Mind

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FlashHarry

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Has anyone done any of this? I had a lesson the other day with an instructor who is into this & I found it interesting & quite challenging. Anyone's thoughts?
 
I learnt to ride when i was 12 at a "normal" riding school and changed schools when i was 15 where i learnt the ride with your mind technique.

Its all about putting yourself in the optimum position of balance and keeping everything neutral which minimises aches and pains and things.

I dont think my riding would be what it is today if i hadnt had this training, it really does create a nice base to work off of. All the kids that ride there all have lovely seats and soft hands and really care about their ponies.
It is challanging to change your position and your way of thinking to ride like that but it is deffinately worth it in my opinion
 
Is this Mary Wanless?? If so my instructor has/does train with her too. Has helped my poistion no end but there is still a way to go..! lol

x
 
Yes it is Mary Wanless's technique..i think its great and it makes so much sence when you think about it. Also its done with putting the words to the feeling you have when your riding that movement and building up a picture your head which is really helpfull to me.

Who is your instructor heidi?
 
Never been so lucky to have an instructor trained this way but have read various books along the same theme and love it. I apply the principles to my riding and have found it really helpful.

Also read a book on how a horse moves and explaining his anatomy and how the rider can work with him to enable and enhance his movement. Can't remember the name of the vet who wrote the book but is was fantastic. It was a large text book like book and it was a lady vet I think called Claire - not much help am I :(
 
I've only had the one lesson & not much chance to practice since. There was certainly a lot to think about - rspecially when you've been doing it differently (wrong!) for 43 years! Can't wait for next weeks lesson.
 
I was lucky enough to go on a 4 day course run by Mary Wanless years ago. It made a huge difference to my riding at the time although I'm sure I gradually slipped back after a while. Even so, I still think about what she taught me and try to remember and put myself right. I think her approach is superb and I would love to find a local trainer who had trained with her (mind you I need a sound horse first....)
 
0ldmare said:
I think her approach is superb and I would love to find a local trainer who had trained with her (mind you I need a sound horse first....)
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Have you looked at
http://www.mary-wanless.com/Coachesuk.html
and tried to find someone in your area, sound horse permitting? I'm am very lucky to have an amazing RWYM instructor who is also an Intelligent Horsemanship Recommended Associate - Monty Roberts/Kelly Marks...
The other options are to get someone to film you (and stop and watch your last 5 circles, or whatever) and be your own instructor - if you understand the principles and what you should be aiming for. Mary's DVDs are very good too, and using her books, look at the pictures and work out what you think of the rider, then read what she says - play the game of working out what you would correct about them.... I need to get out more perhaps!
There are also a fair few people who will be doing teacher training courses with Mary, or will have done them, but are not yet accredited coaches - I'm not suggesting they could "teach" or "Coach" you formally, but might be looking for guinea pigs to practice on?! Or other people who have done courses with Mary, to bounce ideas off? Could certainly be a knowledgable, insightful eye...
There is also a RWYM 'forum'
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RWYM/ and there has recently been a long thread on RWYM without a RWYM coach (lady who lives in Australia...)
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RWYM/message/5612
Then again, anyone with a reasonable knowledge of how riders should look can tell you about your alignment and how stacked up your torso is, - the RWYM aspect is more in the method of the teaching, the visualisations, the metaphors, the explicit explanations of which muscles you need to engage to create that... I know how I need to do it (well some of it!) but I "over compensate" - I have been hollow backed, round backed, leant forward, leant back, lower leg in every different angle, trying to find my way back to neutral... And the feeling of "Weird" when you first get to neutral eg sit up straight as opposed to leaning forward, feels like you are leaning back when you are actually straight... starts the feel less weird the longer you do it... some people are ok with this and keep in that new neutral..:rolleyes:
Others like me, have brains that say.. "No, to be right it has to feel like you are leaning back", so I keep trying for the feeling of leaning back... until my next lesson where my coach will say... "um Pip, why exactly are you leaning back today??" I'm leaning back?? Oh no! Got to just right and kept going for it!! I tried really really hard to look like this!:o
So, therefore, eyes on the ground, or best of all, the video camera, help you keep an eye on your own interpretation of how things are going for you. Thankfully I'm going much less wrong each time, to the point where my lessons are far more subtle in thjeir corrections, the new feelings are much less weird, and neutral / right is starting to feel like home. And of course, I look like Carl Hester;)
My OH, with a classical/saddle seat background, can certainly tell me when I'm leaning forward or rounding my back, or my lower leg is escaping backwards, or I've dropped my hands!! Otherwise, I'm perfect of course :)
 
Ive attended courses and workshops with MW and I do not doubt her credentials at all....however.....I dont think my brain is wired up the same way as hers. There are too many analogies and mental pictures and they dont sit well with the way I learn. The theories seem to be over analysed for the sake of it. I have taken away a lot from her though but would say the dismounted work has done more for me than the ridden.

In the same vein though and equally well respected is Heather Moffat and I have found her way of teaching much more suited to my brain patterns!.
 
I went on the 'Strider' course at Ashen EC with Becky Chapman a RWYM instructor. Strider is the mechanical horse that is linked up to computers etc. Was fab - would recommend it - really enlightening about position etc and a real laugh too - Becky is lovely - great intoduction to RWYM. I haven't ridden for a while due to broken youngster and broken me currently but Denise O'Reilly teaches this method to friends and at our RC and it has bought people on in leaps and bounds.
 
Yes me, I've done a bit - found it was no different to classical training so lost interest. I ride classical and once I worked out the lingo I realised that's all it was.
 
Yes my instructor is Marys Senior instructor - her name is Denise O Reilly - I wish i had found her earlier. I really find it much better to have it explained and understand in my own words.
 
tallyho! said:
Yes me, I've done a bit - found it was no different to classical training so lost interest. I ride classical and once I worked out the lingo I realised that's all it was.
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All roads lead to Rome! I think this is a really important point - Mary's actual riding and what she aims to enable her students to achieve is the classical seat, and she

"Rode with the late Nuno Oliveira, and over the years she has spent many months training in Portugal.

Mary also rode in Germany with the late Egon Von Neindorff.

She has trained in Germany with Hans Heinrich Meyer-Zu-Strohen.. "

What RWYM offers is a different teaching method / style / approach, based on Mary's analysis of what riders actually do, as opposed to what they say they do.. Depending on how you learn (and it REALLY works for me!) it can be revolutionary, or it can be a bit, well, obvious, depending on whether you are one of the gifted % of the population who just 'gets it'!
For instance, your dressage trainer might tell you to relax your thigh, so you try really hard to relax your thigh... And then you watch him ride, and when he halts, try to slip a hand between his leg and the saddle (I'd warn him first, or you might get an odd response - lucky its an example not an anecdote!!) I bet you would find you couldn't get your hand in there. Their thighs are anything but relaxed, but they have the ability to use isometric muscle tone, so they have this incredible powerful contact with their thigh, without gripping, and to them it feels like they are relaxed!

Any co-ordination that is easy (and therefore a 'bit size chunk') for the trainer is not necessarily a 'bite size chunk' for the pupil. When the trainer says 'Do X' she is assuming that he pupil can do 'A,B,C,D,' etc. just as she can! But that may not be the case. The reality is that most trainers teach the pupil as if they were teaching themselves. The skill of coaching lies in the coach's/trainer's ability to cross that skill-gap, and show the pupil her own personalised next steps, that will move her on from her current starting point.
Physical skills and verbal descriptions come from different parts of the brain. The resulting dislocation between expertise and explanation makes it hard for skilled riders to 'clone' themselves. But Mary has discovered that their skills have an underlying structure, and knowing this explicitly enables her to communicate it to others. She clarifies the ‘how’ of riding, making its biomechanics explicit and learnable whilst avoiding the ‘oughts’ and ‘shoulds’ that stifle learning.

NB I have lifted some of these explanations from Mary's website http://www.mary-wanless.com/AboutMary.html

I would really recommend ready the articles that were published in Horse and Rider Magazine - it takes a picture of a horse and rider combo, and she analyzes their position and the horse's way of going - its incredible what she can get from one picture!
They are on her website (its all free!!) at
http://www.mary-wanless.com/Articles.html because they will give anyone who hasn't read her book(s), and doesn't necessarily want to invest, a taste of her teaching.
 
I have had lessons from Mary, indeed I was stabled at her yard for a while.

TBH RWYM actually caused my riding to go down hill because I started to absolutely over analyse everything, and like spaniel, I don't think my brain is wired up to go with it!

I have taken body awareness from it tho, which can only be a good thing, and I do try and bare down when I am riding - so some good, some bad from me :)
 
I offered to be someones guinea pig, and I learn't so much, and ironed out some really simple issues. Sounds silly but I had years of people yelling " half halt" at me, and I was to embarressed to ask how. These lessons really put the ground work in for the current instructor and when I have problems with concepts I go back to my Mary Wanless book. I found her explainations of things really helped.

I also think like anything, you should take what works for your situation
 
BobbyMondeo said:
I learnt to ride when i was 12 at a "normal" riding school and changed schools when i was 15 where i learnt the ride with your mind technique.
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Is this in Southampton - 2 ladies? I think my cousin has had lessons there - she lives in Soton. I hear very good things!!
 
I think it's great, it's a well reasoned "way of riding" that's been translated into an easy to understand teaching method. I have been to a couple of demonstrations and just wish I could find someone up here to teach me it properly!
 
jenhunt said:
I think it's great, it's a well reasoned "way of riding" that's been translated into an easy to understand teaching method. I have been to a couple of demonstrations and just wish I could find someone up here to teach me it properly!
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I agree but if you've learnt classically already don't try or it will confuse hell out of you...

...or maybe just me as I am a bit of a thicko like that.
 
crockshard said:
Is this in Southampton - 2 ladies? I think my cousin has had lessons there - she lives in Soton. I hear very good things!!
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Yeah

They are very good teachers and Carol especially is very good with the children! BUT when you start to get more involved in the yard it does get difficult. Sometimes personalities can be a little abrasive , especially with the children who go down there to help and have ponies on loan from the riding school.

It all kicked off with me when i decided i was going to buy my own horse and not loan one of theirs anymore. I still moved him to the yard but i was constantly being told to help with all the lessons and sweep the riding school yard, go miles down the road to get one of their difficult horses in ect ect ect when im busy trying to bond with a very stressed out horse! Drove me mad so i left and love my new yard

I still visit and they are really starting to make it look smart now and have a new school which is nice but still regularly get phone calls from the kids down there in tears because of things that have been said to them. They wont tell their parents because they are worried they wont be allowed down there with the ponies anymore..bless them


I know this has turned into a rant , but i needed it lol
 
tallyho! said:
I agree but if you've learnt classically already don't try or it will confuse hell out of you...

...or maybe just me as I am a bit of a thicko like that.
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I'm not trying to be antagonistic _ and I'm not a blinkered "RWYM is the only way forward" person, but I'd be really interested (genuinely, not sarcastically) to know which aspects/analogies/ideas confused you, or were at odds with your classical training?
I personally have found it the antidote to the push/pull tactics advocated by previous instructors I have had, but I am the first to admit that I didn't have great instructors, and they were BHS rather than classical.. (that's not to say all BHSAIs are bad instructors, or that they necessarily haven't had classical training... eek.. hole digging now...):o:o:o:o
Recently, my sister was talking to a classically trained dressage rider. She has had some RWYM lessons, and also trains with a top dressage rider herself, although they spend most of their time gossiping... She said to him that Mary taught her more in one hour than she had learned in 1000's of lessons - maybe an exaggeration, but she had a point.
And his reply was: "Well you obviously haven't had very good instructors then!! Of course you have to ride with your mind, what else would you use?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I am going up to Mary's this coming week, and I hope it will give me more insights into my biomechanics, my strengths and weaknesses and asymmetries, and continue to correct some of the negative habits I had gotten into, all of which I do for the sake of a harmonious interaction with my horse. But its not the be-all and end-all for me! I suppose part of the problem is that some people can find it so revolutionary that it starts to appear a bit cult-ish, which its not...:D:D:D
Anyways, I'd really like to know more specifics of what you thought of the training you received - and who was it from - Mary herself or other coaches?
 
crockshard said:
I'm not trying to be antagonistic _ and I'm not a blinkered "RWYM is the only way forward" person, but I'd be really interested (genuinely, not sarcastically) to know which aspects/analogies/ideas confused you, or were at odds with your classical training?

Anyways, I'd really like to know more specifics of what you thought of the training you received - and who was it from - Mary herself or other coaches?
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No that is fine, nor am I blinkered person which is why I attended a Lynda Davey clinic in Dorset. I am more of an EE person and aspire to ride like Philippe Karl.

For the most part, I was getting what she was saying about throughness and connecting with the horse.

It took me most of the last 3/4 years to achieve this, no stirrups, no reins, infact no saddle and the whip through my arms and behind my back as I was so "bad". All at walk trot and canter. 3 years later and I can pretty much move my horse just by thinking about it.

At was all undone when she mentions "arch of energy from your sacral chakra" at which point I wondered if I was attending some Buddhist congregation then said "bear down - as if you are having a poo". I'm sorry, but that is where my mate and I sort of looked to the sky and wondered if we were on the same planet as everyone else.

I was taught to poop on a horse by engaging my seat and inner thigh, allowing the horse to come through by imagining to look at my belly button (just as ridiculous but better than poo-ing on a horse - try it).

Look, I'm not slating it, I'm just saying it's basically the same principles, stick to what you know if it suits you. If it works for you, fab. If not, try something else.

God knows, there's as many experts out there as amateurs so what the heck. Horses for courses and all that malarkey.
 
tallyho! said:
I agree but if you've learnt classically already don't try or it will confuse hell out of you...

...or maybe just me as I am a bit of a thicko like that.
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I'm not sure why youu find it confusing either... it is classical riding, just explained differently. You only have to watch Mary ride to see that it's true classical riding. It's beautiful.

One of the demo's i went to had a girl on a really stroppy grey horse as the demonstrator. the girl was totally skewiff, almost sitting diagonally on the saddle! the poor horse was just confused. When Mary carefully straightened the girl out (she didn't say you cant ride, or you're sitting all wrong or anything like that) by carefully adjusting little things and teaching her how to use the muscles correctly etc etc. By the end of the lesson the horse looked like it had been beautifully schooled all its life, and it's paces totally changed. It was still going to be grumpy, but at lease it was co-operative.
 
I'd actually be very interested in trying this, as it seems to be the sort of way I learn, and my position is terrible :p
 
Crazyfriesian said:
Mary Wanless worked with Nuno Oliviera and developed it from there, so would explain alot... :)
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Absolutely, it does explain everything. My teacher also trained with Nuno and Desi and I can't speak highly enough of classical. It's not meant to be easy, I've cried a small pond or maybe two, lost a partner a house and some very good friends in the quest to ride better.

So therefore, once and for all, I state that it's my personal preference to not carry on with RWYM as it WILL confuse me. Will stick to the words I know.

Me + too much info = confused little pumpkin

:confused::confused::confused:
 
tallyho! said:
Absolutely, it does explain everything. My teacher also trained with Nuno and Desi and I can't speak highly enough of classical. It's not meant to be easy, I've cried a small pond or maybe two, lost a partner a house and some very good friends in the quest to ride better.

So therefore, once and for all, I state that it's my personal preference to not carry on with RWYM as it WILL confuse me. Will stick to the words I know.

Me + too much info = confused little pumpkin

:confused::confused::confused:
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LOL!!!!!!! :D I have managed to bridge the gap, more (un)lucky circumstance than anything else. So yep, so long as you don't try to change my style too fundamentally, i's a happy bunny as I KNOW I'm right! :D

Makes sooooooo much sense all round. :D Just gotta get round my " problem child" and convince him its allllllll going to be ok..... (his mental problems... )
 
BobbyMondeo said:
Yes it is Mary Wanless's technique..i think its great and it makes so much sence when you think about it. Also its done with putting the words to the feeling you have when your riding that movement and building up a picture your head which is really helpfull to me.

Who is your instructor heidi?
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Her name is Charlotte (as is mine!) not sure of her last name, as she is married now and i cannot remember!

I have learnt tonnes from the position techniques and find them very simple to put into place and i think alot more easier and far more correct, then the basic terms heard in many riding schools, which I feel there is alot of room for interpretation.. if you know what I mean.

It's also so good to really concentrate on the position and my own horse has gone so much better as a result.
 
Saw Mary Wanless at the Classical Riding demo on Sunday at Myerscough and I must say I've always heard really good reports about her training methods. Having said that, it didn't show in her riding. :confused: I know she'd not sat on the horse previously and he was a bit on edge with the atmosphere but she held on to him so much she didn't allow him to go forward. Of the 3 trainers (Mary, Sylvia Loch and Heather Moffett) I thought Heather was the best rider on the day :)
 
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