Pictures Rider error - not maintaining the contact

[Hormonal Filly]

Myself having a long time off riding ‘properly’ due to having an unbroken youngster. I can’t believe how much my riding has gone down the pan! Position, elbows, arms, hands. When backing a youngster you don’t think of it, I backed her and she is going well as a 5yo.

I have an old left shoulder injury and my youngster is also weaker on the left rein as struggles with left bend.

I watch videos/look at photos and cringe at myself, but I’ve always really criticised my riding.

Have a 1-1 lesson with a dressage rider next week.. but any tips on maintaining the contact if I do some flat work in the meantime?
I tend to throw the outside rein and over use the inside, so right rein she over bends to the inside.

Pictures of my 5yo this week putting up with me!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I love your mare. Do you always ride so short? Might be worth trying riding longer.

 

[9tails]

Lift your hands, thumbs on top. Lifting your hands should make the head drop and I've give her a bit more rein. This position is what my instructor would call piano hands. I don't do it, but successfully helped another rider by asking her to hold a short whip across her thumbs. You can't drop your hands below the withers and can see when you twist your hands like you're doing. Remember, the engine is at the back of the horse rather than holding in the front.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I love your mare. Do you always ride so short? Might be worth trying riding longer.

Yes.. Bad habit. Infact I lowered my stirrups to ride this day! I’ll put them down another hole!

Thank you, she is such a super type.

but successfully helped another rider by asking her to hold a short whip across her thumbs

The twist of my hands is exactly what I do, way worse on the left rein with my left hand. Sometimes I cross it over my right hand. I’ve heard about holding a short whip across.. Will give that a go! Thank you

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Yes.. Bad habit. Infact I lowered my stirrups to ride this day! I’ll put them down another hole!

Thank you, she is such a super type.



The twist of my hands is exactly what I do, way worse on the left rein with my left hand. Sometimes I cross it over my right hand. I’ve heard about holding a short whip across.. Will give that a go! Thank you

Being aware if what you do is the first step to correcting it. You do have a chair seat in these photos, maybe that is why your mare isn't as forward as you would like (per the other thread).
She is a lovely animal!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Yes.. Bad habit. Infact I lowered my stirrups to ride this day! I’ll put them down another hole!

I would aim for several holes longer To me you look short even for jumping and it is making your legs go too far forward. If you imagine taking your horse away you would not be able to keep your balance. As PAS says you currently have a chair seat.

 

[9tails]

Infact I lowered my stirrups to ride this day! I’ll put them down another hole!

Blimey, I can't imagine riding shorter! It'd do my poor old knees in.

You may find that you're holding her back and giving mixed messages by concentrating on the front end, especially in a horse so young.

 

[webble]

I would aim for several holes longer To me you look short even for jumping and it is making your legs go too far forward. If you imagine taking your horse away you would not be able to keep your balance. As PAS says you currently have a chair seat.

Yes definitely stirrups down about 4 holes, would some work without stirrups help? Even if its just in walk

 

[Arzada]

maybe that is why your mare isn't as forward as you would like (per the other thread).

To add to PAS advice I would suggest looking ahead to eg a few strides ahead of your horse's front feet or further still in the direction you are going. Your eyes are boring into the back of her head and I find that this can stifle forward movement.

She's a lovely horse

 

[Hormonal Filly]

You do have a chair seat in these photos, maybe that is why your mare isn't as forward as you would like (per the other thread).
She is a lovely animal!

I would aim for several holes longer To me you look short even for jumping and it is making your legs go too far forward. If you imagine taking your horse away you would not be able to keep your balance. As PAS says you currently have a chair seat.

Thank you all, very helpful! I went to camp a couple of weeks ago and none of the instructors mentioned to short stirrups. To long line and lunge she is very forward.. so me being the problem would make sense.

Blimey, I can't imagine riding shorter! It'd do my poor old knees in.

You may find that you're holding her back and giving mixed messages by concentrating on the front end, especially in a horse so young.

Yes definitely stirrups down about 4 holes, would some work without stirrups help? Even if its just in walk

4 holes, wow. Will give it a try. I did some no stirrup work on a hack cantering through a open field last week and she felt amazing.. I also felt I rode better so rode back without them.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you all, very helpful! I went to camp a couple of weeks ago and none of the instructors mentioned to short stirrups. To long line and lunge she is very forward.. so me being the problem would make sense.




4 holes, wow. Will give it a try. I did some no stirrup work on a hack cantering through a open field last week and she felt amazing.. I also felt I rode better so rode back without them.

It sounds as if you have found the key to her!
It might be that your saddle is pushing you into your current riding position. Have a read of sbloom's post about saddle fitting on orangehorse's thread

 

[AmyMay]

She’s lovely.

I may want a professional scan of the saddle. Both size, fit and position.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

To add to PAS advice I would suggest looking ahead to eg a few strides ahead of your horse's front feet or further still in the direction you are going. Your eyes are boring into the back of her head and I find that this can stifle forward movement.

She's a lovely horse

Definitely a problem in the school.. I don’t do it when hacking, maybe that’s another reason she goes much better in an open field I’m constantly looking ahead for deer!

It sounds as if you have found the key to her!
It might be that your saddle is pushing you into your current riding position. Have a read if sbloom's thread about saddle fitting.

My saddle was mentioned at camp by the instructor not suiting me, it was fitted new last year (K&M jump) but she’s changed shape massively since, although checked a few weeks back by a different fitter who visited the yard I’ve booked to take her back to the place who fitted it, they have a huge range of saddles. That’s in a couple of weeks time.

A pic of her at camp!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Your stirrups are too short try 2 holes down to start or it will feel too much of a change, hands could be a bit higher and look up infront of you not down.

Once you start having lessons you will get better and the bad habits fade, that saddle looks a bit perched and a bit too far forward most k & m saddles I see do look perched tbh, I've only ridden in one and really didn't like it.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Once you start having lessons you will get better and the bad habits fade, that saddle looks a bit perched and a bit too far forward most k & m saddles I see do look perched tbh, I've only ridden in one and really didn't like it.

Since I’ve been doing more with her I can’t say I like it. It sits extremely high over her withers, I can fit 6 fingers in the gap! Might see if he can swap it/exchange it for something else.

 

[HeresHoping]

You need to let her out of the front door a bit more. You are holding her in with far too firm a contact at the front. Think about riding her up to the bridle, rather than pulling her front end in. Her engine is her quarters. By riding her so tight in front, you are not allowing her quarters to engage. At this stage, rather than being poll high, you should be encouraging her to be long and low so that she can learn to use her back. Then, as she starts to move more, you can 'driver her up by asking her to move from the back to the front - this will automatically make her bring her head up a bit more. The more engagement you get from behind, the higher her head carriage will be, but her back will stay round rather than hollow, and her head will be carried down her whole neck rather than being tucked in from just behind the poll. I wrote a post about this a long while ago, about how you need to think about you, carrying a heavy box in front of you on a circle. As you start, you will find it impossible to do so for any sustained length of time without altering your posture. It will take a long while to build up the strength to do so consistently. Hence, long and low, and then gradually asking for more torque from behind.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thank you @HeresHoping I do long and low work with her, I’ll start doing more. I thought I hold her to tight, but at camp was told to ride with shorter reins/shorter contact again. (Conflicting!)

Am sure the instructor I’ve booked will be able to help.

 

[Arzada]

4 holes, wow. Will give it a try. I did some no stirrup work on a hack cantering through a open field last week and she felt amazing.. I also felt I rode better so rode back without them.

It may feel too much if you go from your current length down 4 holes immediately. I would suggest riding without stirrups for 20 - 30 minutes with a relaxed long leg and then take your stirrups back. Four holes down will likely feel comfortable.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

There is a riding squares exercise you can do it's meant to help straighten the horse but I find it can help with outside rein contact as I drop it as well.

You start in the middle of the school and only start in walk with a straight line and then ride squares only using your outside rein and outside leg, once you have got it in walk you then do them in trot then you slowly make the squares bigger until you go large, still only using you outside rein and leg.

It helps me think about my outside rein a bit more and my horses always go well doing this on occasion I don't do it everytime I school.

 

[catkin]

If you can it would be well worth investing in very regular lessons ( and do the homework suggested in between!) Someone on the ground who knows what they are looking at really helps particularly with a young horse.

There are a number of exercises that could help such as holding a whip across as described, and holding the reins the other way in your hand, but you need a trainer to see you in person to help you work out the best exercises for you and your horse.

 

[webble]

It may feel too much if you go from your current length down 4 holes immediately. I would suggest riding without stirrups for 20 - 30 minutes with a relaxed long leg and then take your stirrups back. Four holes down will likely feel comfortable.

Sorry yes, I did mean to do them in that order. Standing with the balls of your feet on a step and letting your heels drop is a good stretching exercise before you get on too

 

[Zoeypxo]

Definitely stirrups down. Id start with 2 holes with the aim being 4 holes.

Alot of people i know absolutely love k&m saddles, i find them uncomfortable and they tend to put you in a chair position.

Also wanted to add what a lovely looking mare.

 

[LEC]

If you have what I can frying pan hands it will help through the elbow. It feels horrible but it makes a massive difference to stopping you fix the hands and keeping the elbow loose and giving. Have your reins instead of the frying pan handle and such an easy way to have steady contact.

 

[Cherryblossom]

So I do exactly the same, but with my left hand. The first exercise my instructor gave me that really helped was holding my reins upside down, so they come in between thumb and index and out between 4th and 5th fingers- that gives you a really straight line of contact and prevents my rolling my wrist and bracing.

On a larger scale, I then saw an equine physio and my issues were due to a weakness in latissimus dorsi and subscapularis muscles, and I was counteracting that weakness by bracing through shoulder and wrist- it’s constantly improving with focused exercises.

In retrospect, I can see that this has been something I was always prone to, but a prolonged period off, followed by riding a youngster brought it to light.

 

[Bernster]

Ooh the frying pan hands (from Lec) was going to be my suggestion too - didn’t know how to describe it but that does help to address wonky hands and give you some stability. Also holding a whip horizontal between your thumbs but I’m too clumsy for that to work well for me.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

If you have what I can frying pan hands it will help through the elbow. It feels horrible but it makes a massive difference to stopping you fix the hands and keeping the elbow loose and giving. Have your reins instead of the frying pan handle and such an easy way to have steady contact.

Ooh the frying pan hands (from Lec) was going to be my suggestion too - didn’t know how to describe it but that does help to address wonky hands and give you some stability. Also holding a whip horizontal between your thumbs but I’m too clumsy for that to work well for me.

Oo, thats worth a try. Thank you!

Thanks all for your help, will give it a couple of weeks and report back.

Physio hasn’t seen her for 6 months and was really happy with her yesterday so that’s a bonus. Said she has a real soft spot for her

 

[doodle]

I do exactly the same with my right hand. My right shoulder comes forward, my elbow comes out, my hand flattens and I open my fingers and don’t hold the reins firmly. My right hand then comes across his withers.

I had a lesson and instructor picked up on that and constantly reminded me. What has helped is focussing on my elbow and keeping it to my side. And then my thumb. It has made a huge difference. When I actually take a proper hold of my rein (I want to be soft on his mouth so hold the reins loosely which actually makes it worse) I can keep my thumb on top. When I think about my elbow to my side I can hold the reins better and my shoulder is in a better position. As a result my horse gets a more steady contact and instantly goes better.

 

[BronsonNutter]

Cute horse!

Since smashing my left elbow up I've become prone to my left arm and hand going wayward (generally sneaking forwards, but sometimes my elbow rolls outwards). Annoyingly I can't really feel that I'm doing it as I think its a bit of a dodgy proprioception thing now. Not sure if your shoulder injury has led to anything similar? Thinking of my elbow and hand really doesn't help, but I had a lesson with an instructor who is also a human physio and she said to focus of dropping my shoulder (the part of that arm where I do know where it is!) and that has helped as the other bits then come into line more. Hopefully your instructor can find a similar method for you.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Cute horse!

Since smashing my left elbow up I've become prone to my left arm and hand going wayward (generally sneaking forwards, but sometimes my elbow rolls outwards). Annoyingly I can't really feel that I'm doing it as I think its a bit of a dodgy proprioception thing now. Not sure if your shoulder injury has led to anything similar? Thinking of my elbow and hand really doesn't help, but I had a lesson with an instructor who is also a human physio and she said to focus of dropping my shoulder (the part of that arm where I do know where it is!) and that has helped as the other bits then come into line more. Hopefully your instructor can find a similar method for you.

Sounds similar.. I don't notice I'm doing it either! It isn't until I look back at videos/pictures and see it! On the left rein I almost twist my left shoulder/hand towards the right rein. Thank you.

 

[ihatework]

Really cute horse!

The key things others have already said:
Thumbs on top and bend elbows
Lengthen stirrups
Change saddle

You ideally need those stirrups down 3-4 holes at least but I’m not sure the saddle will support you doing that easily. Don’t do it all at once, you will just tip/grip and create other issues.

I’d probably suggest some lunge lessons and work on position minus reins, that will help loads and then you will probably find the elbows and thumbs come easier.