Rider too big for pony

tankgirl1 said:
My little rider and Hercs have a way to go, but she's obviously not to heavy for him! That's a great pic, I have told Hercs rider she is not allowed to grow any more! :p
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Interesting. I see an overweight but lovely pony who's face is expressing pain.
 
Dave's Mam said:
This is Frankie Currell on Classic. He's absolutely up to her weight. This is a fit, working & really good Shetty.
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I think he's up to her weight but I am not sure there would be a saddle combo for the pair of them. I also think he is fat though (and I am an adult riding small natives-I would be horrified if either of mine were that fat even if either were a Shetland) and his expression is not a happy one-but then the noseband appears pretty tight as well and before someone else says it 'its just a moment in time'. I am also not convinced by the saddlepads-there's no way that they arent producing pressure points - it might not be such an issue for very small riders.
 
Dave's Mam said:
This is Frankie Currell on Classic. He's absolutely up to her weight. This is a fit, working & really good Shetty.

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He's carrying far too many kilos of his own fat and he looks very unhappy. I bet if you add her weight and his fat together they break the 16.5% weight that caused problems in a trial by Sue Dyson. Probably even the 20% limit.

He's carrying her weight and still moving, agreed, but I think she's too big and too heavy for him; she's not even fitting into that saddle, and it's a horrible picture.

As well as a weight rule, we need a new rule for big riders on small horses. If your bum won't fit in a saddle that doesn't extend weight bearing past the last rib, you're too big!
 
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ycbm said:
He's carrying far too many kilos of his own fat and he looks very unhappy. I bet if you add her weight and his fat together they break the 16.5% weight that caused problems in a trial by Sue Dyson. Probably even the 20% limit.

He's carrying her weight and still moving, agreed, but I think she's too big and too heavy for him and that it's a horrible picture.
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Well he had just qualified for HOYS so the overall performance and presentation can't have been that bad 😂😂😂 Also being a stallion he has to be ridden by an older rider. I know 13yo can ride small breed stallions in the ring but you would be hard put to find ones that were up to the job! This is the problem I have getting the Wee Coloured Job out under saddle!
 
EKW said:
Well he had just qualified for HOYS so the overall performance and presentation can't have been that bad 😂😂😂 Also being a stallion he has to be ridden by an older rider. I know 13yo can ride small breed stallions in the ring but you would be hard put to find ones that were up to the job! This is the problem I have getting the Wee Coloured Job out under saddle!
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I don't care what he's qualified for. There are horrors being committed all over the world in the name of qualifying animals of all types for prestigious prizes.

He doesn't 'have' to be ridden by anyone. It's a choice.
 
EKW said:
Well he had just qualified for HOYS so the overall performance and presentation can't have been that bad ������
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sorry EKW, I have alot of respect for your experience but qualifying for HOYs in itself doesnt excuse it. I am for ponies being ridden by adults-but the right adult and a pony at the right weight. That pony is fat, Shetland or not, stallion or not. That is not a happy expression on that pony's face.
 
If you look on the Catchpool Shetlands Facebook page you will see that Classic isn't actually as fat as that pic makes him look! Yes he is quite thick through the neck but not as full around the gut. Chee Man on the other hand is carrying a bit more weight than I would like!
 
There was a fab little bay shetland doing the workers at 3 counties last year, with a short adult. He was brilliant and really didn't seem aware that he was the shortest in the class. I do think it would be a shame if shetlands were confined to lead rein classes only and never do any performance stuff.
 
ester said:
There was a fab little bay shetland doing the workers at 3 counties last year, with a short adult. He was brilliant and really didn't seem aware that he was the shortest in the class. I do think it would be a shame if shetlands were confined to lead rein classes only and never do any performance stuff.
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I know the one you mean and he is a regular at HOYS in the open ridden class
 
ycbm said:
I don't care what he's qualified for. There are horrors being committed all over the world in the name of qualifying animals of all types for prestigious prizes.

And this is why change is needed. it will be a good day for ridden horses when their way of going marks include "happiness". And if he can't be ridden by a smaller rider then training or temperament have to be considered.
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ozpoz said:
ycbm said:
I don't care what he's qualified for. There are horrors being committed all over the world in the name of qualifying animals of all types for prestigious prizes.

And this is why change is needed. it will be a good day for ridden horses when their way of going marks include "happiness". And if he can't be ridden by a smaller rider then training or temperament have to be considered.
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It's nothing to do with training and temperament. Show rules state that no one under the age of 13yo can ride a small breed stallion in the show ring. I think it's 16yl for Large breeds. A lot of these ponies could quote happily be ridden by kids but unless they are gelded they can't go in the ring with them.
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Dave's Mam said:
I posted the pic to show that Shetlands can carry a small adult & that they are pretty strong.
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They can pull trugs full of coal as well but we don't ask them to do that any more.

And whilst he's carrying a adult, he's not carrying an adult in a saddle that fits her.
 
EKW said:
ozpoz said:
It's nothing to do with training and temperament. Show rules state that no one under the age of 13yo can ride a small breed stallion in the show ring. I think it's 16yl for Large breeds. A lot of these ponies could quote happily be ridden by kids but unless they are gelded they can't go in the ring with them.
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What happened there? I didn't make the comment about training and temperament :)
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EKW said:
I know the one you mean and he is a regular at HOYS in the open ridden class
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http://www.1stclassimages.com/p15321811
on page 16.


YCBM I'd not seen percentages given by the Sue Dyson research? The last I read on the prelim report was that they had issues with the overweight (16 st iirc) and v. overweight (20 stone iirc) riders but not attributed percentages to them?

eta oh I can still quote fine, it's just you lot confusing yourselves :D
 
I made the comment on training and temperamant. And I believe it is everything to do with training and temperament when it comes to judging ponies for suitability. I always feel heartened when I see judges comments on the lines of "did it all with a smile on his face".

And I've just seen Ester's post. The data collections for the "tall but not overweight" and heavy rider were stopped on ethical grounds. I'm looking forward to hearing the full results in December.
 
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ester said:
http://www.1stclassimages.com/p15321811
on page 16.


YCBM I'd not seen percentages given by the Sue Dyson research? The last I read on the prelim report was that they had issues with the overweight (16 st iirc) and v. overweight (20 stone iirc) riders but not attributed percentages to them?

eta oh I can still quote fine, it's just you lot confusing yourselves :D
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I tried to find the report the other day. There is only a reference on HHO from 2014, I think, where the study was halted because heavy riders - 16.5% and very heavy riders, no percentage given, were causing horses to show up lame when the lighter riders didn't. Maybe I misread stone as percent?

Does anyone know where the the full report can be found?
 
Ah no, this one has only just been done last year, in the original press release they were very bad at not really including any actual numbers. Let me see what I can unearth again.
 
http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-xmodnewsrss_detail/riderweightratiostudymarch2018.html

'The influence of rider to horse bodyweight ratios on equine gait and behaviour: a pilot study1 assessed gait and behavioural responses in six horses ridden by four riders of similar ability but different sizes. The riders were all weighed in their riding kit and were subsequently categorised as being light, moderate, heavy and very heavy. Their body mass index (BMI) was also calculated. The BMI calculation divides an adult's weight by their height squared and the score is used to assess healthy weight.'

'The riding tests for the heavy and very heavy riders were all abandoned, predominantly because of temporary horse lameness. This was likely to have been induced by bodyweight rather than BMI, given that the heavy and moderate riders had similar BMIs, both being classified as overweight, yet only one of the moderate rider’s tests had to be abandoned'

I will have to hunt elsewhere for any numbers. I was quite cross that they didn't think it helpful to include them in the first place! - The advertising spec for the heaviest rider was over 18stone.
 
Ah good old facebook, I can't link source sorry but was an opinion article in the veterinary press- the very heavy rider was 142kg (so 22 stone), light was 60kg, not sure on the moderate and heavy other than between the two.
 
ester said:
Ah good old facebook, I can't link source sorry but was an opinion article in the veterinary press- the very heavy rider was 142kg (so 22 stone), light was 60kg, not sure on the moderate and heavy other than between the two.
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And no reference to the relative sizes of the horses? Bit useless as a study that one, eh?
 
Ah fab thanks ozpoz, not seen the Q+A part before which has the 16% figure in it. I do wish they had just reported it more properly with the salient information included rather than the 'we had to stop the trial because of the lame horses' report that we did get' without the back ground info.
 
I know the study you mean. I read the report when it came out and they said the used average horses. What's one of those when it's at home? A 16.2hh warmblood style with a relative degree of fitness? A 15.2hh cob style happy hacker? A 16hh Show jumper? Long back? Short coupled? Etc!

Without knowing the capabilities of the horses It's impossible to determine the correct outcome.
 
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