Riders must change their behaviour to make roads safer?

[hairycob]

I'm with you OP. Let me make it clear that I do thank drivers when I'm on my horse, just as I do when I am walking or when someone stops to let me out when I'm driving etc. Yes it is a good idea to thank people but it's not an excuse to be a prat because someone hasn't. In fact it's just bloody childish.
I expect all road users to, first and foremost, drive safely whoever they are and whatever is around. But when I'm driving, it's never a horse rider or a cyclist who overtakes me approaching a sharp bend while exceeding the speed limit and/or on their phone. It's never a rider who blasts past me out of my village before we leave the 30mph zone and then has to slam on the brakes because of the sharp bend about 50m later or who overtakes (& I don't drive slowly) and then immediately brakes hard because a deer/pheasant has walked onto the road. It's never a horse rider who doesn't read the road ahead & doesn't leave enough enough room for that lorry that is already passing parked cars to get through and causes grid lock. So before drivers complain about lack of manners from any other road users there are quite a few things they need to address themselves.

 

[stormox]

I think a nod and a thank you is enough, no need to go too overboard and look like the village idiot. Looking professional goes a long way to earning respect from drivers too. Smartly turned out, horse between hand and leg, neat hi viz (not an over big sheet slipping sideways) and willing to trot on when required. Not wandering around on a loose rein whilst using a mobile phone!
ALL road users should be courteous and thank others when necessary. If a driver slows, or waits, yes I thank them, whether on a horse or driving my car. But if on a main road thats wide enough for them to pass without altering their course or speed I dont thank them, what would I be thanking them for?

 

[JFTDWS]

To be honest, I'm less concerned by the behaviour of drivers on the road provided they have actually seen me. It's the people who drive around not expecting to meet horses, speeding round blind bends on the wrong side of the road, who aren't capable of stopping if they do meet a rider. I have no idea how one combats that sort of stupidity.

I do, however, thank every sensible driver profusely. Even the one who had pulled over on the by way and turned his engine off - he and his passenger even climbed into the back seat and steamed up the windows so they didn't frighten the horses

PS Sex in lay-bys sounds kind of exciting but would we have hitching rails to tie the horses up to?

Mine all ground tie

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Some riders drive me mad! I passed one woman who had been waving to someone she knew in a car driving in the opposite direction (either that or she was practising her windmilling!), as I drove past slowly and carefully, she was too busy chatting yo her companion to raise even a smile in my direction.
Others take up the whole of the narrow roads round here, which is fine to stop drivers trying to squeeze past, I've done it myself but they don't bother to either trot on to a passing place, or even pull in, when they get to one. Some riders seem to be completely oblivious of their surroundings.

 

[Bubblewrap]

A couple of weeks ago the main road between two local towns was shut unexpectedly due to an accident. This put all the traffic onto our hacking route, which road wise we have to do about half a mile between bridleways. The first stream of traffic we encountered was following a tractor and must have been 30 cars long, we managed to get into a gateway and let them through, thanking each and everyone of them individually and amazingly they all thank us back. We then carried on and a learner driver came behind us slowly with another stream of traffic, by then we were near a grass area and got off the road and let everyone through again thanking everyone and everyone thanked us back! Although I felt a bit of a fool with my arm going up and down like billio and smiling and mouthing thank you every two seconds, I felt we did some good that day in the rider/driver situation! Funnily my daughter said she felt so much safer as the road was so busy everyone was going slowly than when we get the odd car up there doing 60mph!

 

[RaposadeGengibre]

To be fair, around us majority of riders, cyclists and dog walkers are smile and wave - all are same faces though. But not long ago we have encountered a male rider, plodding along, who has just had his face like I shoved a lemon into it. If my thought was " you ******* prat!", what an average non-horsey driver would think?

 

[Pigeon]

I guess the point is you shouldn't endanger people just because they aren't 'grateful'. I always say thankyou but it's basic manners to slow down for riders - I wouldn't expect a thankyou from people I've stopped for at a pedestrian crossing for example.

You can't mow people down just because you've decided that they are 'rude'.

 

[RaposadeGengibre]

I guess the point is you shouldn't endanger people just because they aren't 'grateful'. I always say thankyou but it's basic manners to slow down for riders - I wouldn't expect a thankyou from people I've stopped for at a pedestrian crossing for example.

You can't mow people down just because you've decided that they are 'rude'.

Tbh, I smile or wave even if Im on zebra crossing. What irks me in school, when you stop to let people cross (zebra or not, doesn't matter), kids mainly are smiling and waving thank you. Mommies, on the other hand, swanning across without even a glance and not on the rush to cross (and school car park IS busy).

True, you can't mow people down but then the driver wouldn't bother to take extra safety measures potentially putting horse and rider (likely different one) in danger.

 

[stencilface]

I always thank drivers that are courteous, even some that aren't really as it's such an automatic response. I have been known to flick the vs at very discourteous drivers, I'm sure they were oblivious as couldn't fund their brakes, I think it's unlikely they're aware they have mirrors.

I got a thumbs up from a cyclist the other day as I'd pulled onto the verge to let him past on a steep downhill section on a single track lane. He looked behind him to check if I'd pulled over for a car wheb he realised I'd pulled over so he could hit Mach 3 he thanked me

 

[Snowy Celandine]

To be fair, around us majority of riders, cyclists and dog walkers are smile and wave - all are same faces though. But not long ago we have encountered a male rider, plodding along, who has just had his face like I shoved a lemon into it. If my thought was " you ******* prat!", what an average non-horsey driver would think?

What would the average non-horsey driver think? Honestly? I expect he or she would think the same as the average horsey driver i.e. "Oooh, look at that for a resting bitch face" Do you expect cyclists (to pick one example of another typical road user) to keep a constant rictus of a grin on their faces just in case someone overtakes them safely? I can assure you I've seen some jolly unattractive puce-faced ones cycling up the hill past my house but I don't judge them for it. We can't all have film star looks

 

[Goldenstar]

The most important thing you can do to increase your safety is be seen .
The second is to ride really well teach your self to autiomatically think ahead and have a obedient well trained horse who can cope with hazards without having a melt down .
We must not expect others to take the majority of the responsibly for keeping us safe
Traffic proof your horse horses need to be trained to accept traffic .
I think thanking drivers would be well down the list .
It would be interesting to see figures breaking down why horse/traffic accidents happen .

 

[littleshetland]

People ride for many reasons.. It can be a wonderful form of therapy, but if there's something troubling you while you ride, you may not feel like smiling and waving and thanking and endless stream of cars that pass by - don't assume people are being rude if they don't acknowledge you god knows what sort of day they're having. - We ALL want to stay safe on the roads, and the best way to do this is abide by the highway code. I believe there is a woefully small paragraph included in the HC about passing horses and riders - perhaps we should petition the government to educate drivers more about this issue - or petition the BHS or another governing body to raise awareness. And back to the issue of rudeness from horse riders......I'm not sure why we are expected to endlessly thank people just for driving within the law (HC says pass wide and slow) I don't thank people for stopping at traffic lights and 'give way' lines, or driving on the left, or driving within the speed limit etc etc, so why should I be expected to thank people all the time for driving past me and my horse in a sane and sensible fashion? If there's a problem with the horse, and he causes other road users more of a delay than they would reasonably expect - then of course I would thank them for their patience and consideration. I don't expect every horse rider I pass (wide and slow) to thank me - I'm just glad they've got both hands on the reins and they're concentrating on what they're doing - just like I'm concentrating on my car driving.

 

[Snowy Celandine]

The most important thing you can do to increase your safety is be seen .
The second is to ride really well teach your self to autiomatically think ahead and have a obedient well trained horse who can cope with hazards without having a melt down .
We must not expect others to take the majority of the responsibly for keeping us safe
Traffic proof your horse horses need to be trained to accept traffic .
I think thanking drivers would be well down the list .
It would be interesting to see figures breaking down why horse/traffic accidents happen .

GS, whilst I agree with what you say I do wonder how many people actually set off for a hack along a public highway assuming that everyone else will look out for their safety and that of their horse and thus not bother looking where they are going/watching out for potential hazards etc? I know I wouldn't dream of setting off for a hack holding the buckle end of the reins, talking on my phone and drifting along in a world of my own. On the other hand I have seen plenty of drivers on their mobile phones/combing their hair/applying lipstick and even eating from a breakfast cereal bowl (?) on one memorable occasion when commuting to work in the early morning. We should ALL take responsibility for our own safety whilst also being mindful that we don't endanger other road users.

Thanking drivers is a nice thing to do and I always do it but do I agree with you that it's not essential from a safety point of view to reward every road user simply because they are not breaking the law or driving dangerously. I do, however, look forward to encountering my first mad woman on a horse thanking me with flailing arms and shouting praise at me at full volume

 

[rascal]

I always thank drivers who slow down it is pain good manners, although I often get ignored when I slow down for other riders. Make sure you are seen and be polite it is not difficult.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I am not really sure what your point is, SC.
You say that you stopped hacking because of the traffic, surely if those of us who do hack, could make the roads safe enough for everyone to feel confident enough to take their horse out, by thanking drivers who are considerate, that would be better than just ignoring their efforts.

Incidentally most of the lone cyclists round here are polite to both drivers and horse riders, it's the club members who seem to feel that they have a right to hog the roads.

 

[Snowy Celandine]

I am not really sure what your point is, SC.
You say that you stopped hacking because of the traffic, surely if those of us who do hack, could make the roads safe enough for everyone to feel confident enough to take their horse out, by thanking drivers who are considerate, that would be better than just ignoring their efforts.

Incidentally most of the lone cyclists round here are polite to both drivers and horse riders, it's the club members who seem to feel that they have a right to hog the roads.

Sorry but that is exactly what I am NOT saying. I haven't a clue where one obtains the head banging against a wall smiley but please insert it here in your imagination. I created this post in response to an article to which I provided a link. I'm guessing you haven't read it? If you do you will understand exactly what my post is about or at least I hope you will.

In case you haven't time to read it I'll summarise the salient points. Basically, the journalist advocates "absolutely loving" drivers who pass one safely when one is riding. She goes on to say that riders should "beam" at considerate drivers and say "Thank you so much, that is so kind, I’m so grateful to you".

I don't disagree, and I feel as though I have typed this for the millionth time but here goes once more I solemnly believe that we should ALL be considerate on the roads, that we should ALL be safety conscious and that we should ALL exhibit good manners. I have ridden since childhood, as I'm sure have you, and it was drummed into me from a very early age that we thanked car drivers, each and every one. Sometimes it was a pain as one felt like a jerky puppet but we still did it and I have never deviated from this. I ALWAYS thank car drivers whether I am riding a horse, a bike or driving a car or other vehicle as I'm sure do you and most others.

What I am actually saying though is that it is not always possible to take one's hands from the reins if one is riding a young horse out in traffic for the first time (there does have to be a first time for every horse doesn't there? they are not born knowing how to hack safely on public highways) or if one's mount perhaps spooks due to something untoward happening e.g. a pheasant flying up or a lorry letting off its air brakes or some such. Surely these things happen when you hack out too?

In short, I am a polite person, I always thank anyone who is kind or considerate towards me BUT I am not suddenly going to transform myself into a shouting human windmill (as advocated by the author of the article in question) and, equally importantly, whilst you may believe that thanking considerate drivers makes every driver on the road into a lovely person, you are actually (as I said previously) preaching to the converted aren't you? You are, quite rightly, thanking them for their consideration and stopping them becoming bad drivers if they have tendencies that way but you are absolutely NOT educating the reckless drivers of the world.

If you genuinely believe that giving considerate drivers a friendly wave will cure the reckless and inconsiderate drivers and transform them into conscientious road users you are deluded I'm afraid. I've acknowledged thousands of drivers over the years and yet I still see shocking examples of driving on the roads today. It seems my 50 odd years of improving road safety through politeness have not yet achieved complete success ...

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Sorry but that is exactly what I am NOT saying. I haven't a clue where one obtains the head banging against a wall smiley but please insert it here in your imagination. I created this post in response to an article to which I provided a link. I'm guessing you haven't read it? If you do you will understand exactly what my post is about or at least I hope you will.

In case you haven't time to read it I'll summarise the salient points. Basically, the journalist advocates "absolutely loving" drivers who pass one safely when one is riding. She goes on to say that riders should "beam" at considerate drivers and say "Thank you so much, that is so kind, I’m so grateful to you".

I don't disagree, and I feel as though I have typed this for the millionth time but here goes once more I solemnly believe that we should ALL be considerate on the roads, that we should ALL be safety conscious and that we should ALL exhibit good manners. I have ridden since childhood, as I'm sure have you, and it was drummed into me from a very early age that we thanked car drivers, each and every one. Sometimes it was a pain as one felt like a jerky puppet but we still did it and I have never deviated from this. I ALWAYS thank car drivers whether I am riding a horse, a bike or driving a car or other vehicle as I'm sure do you and most others.

What I am actually saying though is that it is not always possible to take one's hands from the reins if one is riding a young horse out in traffic for the first time (there does have to be a first time for every horse doesn't there? they are not born knowing how to hack safely on public highways) or if one's mount perhaps spooks due to something untoward happening e.g. a pheasant flying up or a lorry letting off its air brakes or some such. Surely these things happen when you hack out too?

In short, I am a polite person, I always thank anyone who is kind or considerate towards me BUT I am not suddenly going to transform myself into a shouting human windmill (as advocated by the author of the article in question) and, equally importantly, whilst you may believe that thanking considerate drivers makes every driver on the road into a lovely person, you are actually (as I said previously) preaching to the converted aren't you? You are, quite rightly, thanking them for their consideration and stopping them becoming bad drivers if they have tendencies that way but you are absolutely NOT educating the reckless drivers of the world.

If you genuinely believe that giving considerate drivers a friendly wave will cure the reckless and inconsiderate drivers and transform them into conscientious road users you are deluded I'm afraid. I've acknowledged thousands of drivers over the years and yet I still see shocking examples of driving on the roads today. It seems my 50 odd years of improving road safety through politeness have not yet achieved complete success ...

Yes, I read the article and while I think that the author goes over the top, that wasn't what I took from your OP, perhaps I misunderstood your point.
As I don't just thank the drivers who give good clearance and crawl past but those who appear to make a vague attempt at doing either, or those who have been held up behind a considerate driver, I do hope that my good manners rub off a little. We certainly don't influence a yonexcfor the good by being rude or ignoring them.

I do hope that your head isn't too sore by now

 

[Snowy Celandine]

Just for the record I'll repeat once again that I, personally, thank all drivers even those who haven't exactly done the right thing. I have never and will never advocate rudeness towards anyone.

Phew, I am wishing I'd not commented on the article in question. Time to keep my head under the parapet now methinks and just baaa like a sheep whenever anyone says anything daft (the author, not you Pearl)

On the bright side, OH and I have done a good job today between us - we've moved all the ash from the site of the old bonfire and taken two bags of metal bits that we fished out from it, to the tip. Just off to find a brazier to see if we can adjust to bonfires on a smaller scale!!

 

[RaposadeGengibre]

What would the average non-horsey driver think? Honestly? I expect he or she would think the same as the average horsey driver i.e. "Oooh, look at that for a resting bitch face" Do you expect cyclists (to pick one example of another typical road user) to keep a constant rictus of a grin on their faces just in case someone overtakes them safely? I can assure you I've seen some jolly unattractive puce-faced ones cycling up the hill past my house but I don't judge them for it. We can't all have film star looks

Errr... something that will be automatically starred all way through for a couple of pages?

Its not even about beaming smiles showing all available teeth or hugging drivers, its simple acknowledge of your presence, slight nod, glance with a bit of smile..anything.
As I said earlier, in our area dog walkers, runners are thanking for slowing down and giving wide berth on the lanes. Even a lycra clad old git has started thanking (me anyway )

 

[Snowy Celandine]

Errr... something that will be automatically starred all way through for a couple of pages?

Its not even about beaming smiles showing all available teeth or hugging drivers, its simple acknowledge of your presence, slight nod, glance with a bit of smile..anything.
As I said earlier, in our area dog walkers, runners are thanking for slowing down and giving wide berth on the lanes. Even a lycra clad old git has started thanking (me anyway )

What do you mean by "...something that will be automatically starred all way through for a couple of pages"? Am I being thick because you've completely lost me there

Just to re-iterate, I do thank all drivers, always have and always will The thing that I was disagreeing with in the article was the author's recommendation to virtually offer sexual favours whilst shouting your gratitude through a megaphone!! I'm going to stick to my customary wave and smile thank you very much!

Actually my OH got thanked by a cyclist the other day and he was so shocked and pleased that it was the first thing he told me when he got through the door, ha ha

 

[Goldenstar]

I wonder if the writer was American , lots them think pointless insincere OTT fake politeness is the way to solve things .

 

[Snowy Celandine]

I wonder if the writer was American , lots them think pointless insincere OTT fake politeness is the way to solve things .

Maybe, I never thought of that. I love the way Americans' fake sincerity disappears in a flash when you accidentally give them too small a tip. I did it to a waitress once and she virtually chased me out of the restaurant snarling. Ooops

 

[Goldenstar]

I told an American once that politeness was no subsistute for doing things efficiently he nearly fell down .

 

[Rollin]

I have to say your post did make me laugh!
I'm totally with you on this one- can't see why a smile and a hand up in thanks isn't enough. I also agree there are times when it is not safe to take a hand off the rein and although I would always try to make eye contact with the driver (which probably wouldn't be possible anyway on a larger horse!) and smile its not always easy when you are being bounced along because of a horse-eating drain cover or kamikaze pheasant!

I have not read the whole thread but I too was furious when I read this.

I had to look back at my Press Coverage, but in 2002 I took an Access Petition to the Scottish Parliament, (rode my old film horse into the centre of Stirling to present it). I also conducted a road safety campaign with the help of the Accident Prevention Officer in the local Constabulary. I was very upset when a local horse rider pitched up at our meeting and said she would not ride on the road because 'it is not fair to motorists'.

At the time this was going on, BHS had themselves made a Road Safety video in which they emphasised that it is not always possible to give a friendly wave when a rider is on a young/nervous horse or other environmental factor dictate keeping both hands on the reins.

I ALWAYS pass walkers/joggers/ cyclists wide and slow just as I would a horse. NEVER get a thank you. I cannot imagine SUSTRANS publicly criticisng their members for jumping traffic lights/riding on the pavement/not giving motorists a friendly wave and in effect saying the cyclists are themselves to blame for inconsiderate motorists!!

Why are WE the riders to blame for not thanking motorists for obeying the Highway Code.

Shame on you BHS if you support this.

 

[sjp1]

Well I haven't read all the posts because there are MANY pages!!

However, what I will say is that there are a lot of drivers who are idiots. Possibly they are idiots because they don't understand country ways. I have a horse who is really good with traffic but my YO has a youngster who we babysit who is not so good - very much like mine used to be when he was 4 - very frightened and very reactive.

I personally find farmers very good - they understand livestock and frightened animals and if you ask them to stop they do and invariably turn their engines off - whether that is a trailer, tractor or lorry.

Van drivers vary as do car drivers - just yesterday an absolute idiot in a very expensive Jag came up behind us - fast and didn't offer to slow or get over or let us find somewhere to pass - I had to get in front of him on my horse and ask him what kind of a prat he was that he couldn't see the other horse was worried about him being so close - this was on a narrow country lane and really he shouldn't have been on it - he was clearly a visitor to the area - no-one local has an expensive car like that and if they want to visit they need to learn.

Having said that we met a van driver who was just enchanting and turned the engine off for YO's youngster.

I do make a point of being very over friendly and waving a lot to those who slow down sensibly.

I have however met a lot of ignorant horse riders who feel they are too cool to wear high viz and clearly too cool to thank you for slowing down whilst I have been driving. To be honest, if I wasn't horsey I would think they deserved what they got with regard to speed. Personally I think not wearing hi viz is just plain silly - I don't drive fast but there are times with a dark horse and with a rider with dark clothing you just don't see them, and then there are those who can't be bothered to thank you for slowing down. Again I think this is pure ignorance and those who can't be bothered to thank drivers can't expect anything other than bad manners and it doesn't really help other riders. They may have a horse that is good in traffic as mine is - but horses aren't born being good in traffic and it is purely helpful drivers that cause a horse not to be frightened.

With regard to cyclists, we have actually told cyclists that not calling out before passing horses is bad manners!! They didn't actually realise that or that horses are scared of silent things whizzing up behind them.

Really and truly it is up to us as riders to engage with motorists, farmers and cyclists so that they are better informed. Yesterday I told a van driver that my YO's youngster was very scared of vans - this is because a Tesco van whizzed past him and caused him to have a melt down - YO did a 'dismount' yesterday because although my horse and I shielded her and her horse there were puddles he had to meet which he is also scared of.

In my opinion, we are the ones with the most to lose, so we are the ones that have to praise drivers for slowing down and chastise those who don't - equally if you are riding on roads, always safer if possible to have a horse to ride out with that is good in traffic to shield the ones who are learning. A friend of mine did this for me and I am doing this 8 years on for yard owner.

 

[RaposadeGengibre]

What do you mean by "...something that will be automatically starred all way through for a couple of pages"? Am I being thick because you've completely lost me there

All words that considered... shall I say inappropriate on the forum .. are starred. Like *******s, *******, ****, ****...

 

[Snowy Celandine]

All words that considered... shall I say inappropriate on the forum .. are starred. Like *******s, *******, ****, ****...

Oh, I get it now. I hope I don't get banned for colourful language - eek!

 

[MagicMelon]

I think us horse riders are trying to shed the ridiculous old fashioned stereotype of all horse riders being snobby stuck up privileged people (therefore unliked by most people!). So we all have to work hard to come across as the polite, smiley nice people we actually are. Its a shame we have to, but if its keeps us all safer then Im perfectly willing to wave and smile at people. Ive even taught my 5yo son to wave and smile at everyone who slows down when he's riding - guaranteed it brings a smile to the people in the car so surely that leaves them more willing to respect other riders they come across.

 

[Snowy Celandine]

sjp1, yes, as riders we will more than likely come off worst in a collision with a car but doesn't that also apply to cyclists, joggers, walkers etc? Should they prostrate themselves with gratitude every time we slow down and pass them safely? I think a simple wave or nod from a cyclist, providing they are not taking part in a race or puffing up a steep hill would suffice but still they don't do it or at least I've never encountered a cyclist who's thanked me.

I will repeat for the millionth time that I, personally, always drive or ride as safely as possible and I always, without exception, thank those who have slowed down and passed me safely/let me out at junctions or whatever. I do not, however, see that horse riders, and horse riders alone, should have to come over all Uriah Heep every time they encounter a driver who is obeying the highway code and driving safely. Whatever next, should it be compulsory for all horse owners to rush out of their homes and thank passers by for walking past uneventfully rather than breaking into their houses and stealing their televisions?

 

[Snowy Celandine]

I think us horse riders are trying to shed the ridiculous old fashioned stereotype of all horse riders being snobby stuck up privileged people (therefore unliked by most people!). So we all have to work hard to come across as the polite, smiley nice people we actually are. Its a shame we have to, but if its keeps us all safer then Im perfectly willing to wave and smile at people. Ive even taught my 5yo son to wave and smile at everyone who slows down when he's riding - guaranteed it brings a smile to the people in the car so surely that leaves them more willing to respect other riders they come across.

That's lovely MagicMelon and exactly what I was taught from an early age. Well done for instilling good manners If people pass you both in cars and they are nice, considerate drivers they will smile and be pleased to see you on the road. Unfortunately, I maintain, however, that your son's politeness probably won't be able to slow down the next boy/girl racer who neither knows nor cares about horses so hell bent is he/she on driving as though the road were a racetrack